Newbie with Eco-Flo dye problems

[PJ234]

I'm brand new to leatherwork and have made a handful of holster and knife sheath projects. The local Tandy store sent me home with Eco-Flo dye and some of their veggie tanned shoulder, and these are what I made:

Coal black...has a weird, iridescent purplish look

More coal black...shows some bluish-greenish 'stuff'

Bison brown...I think the metallic look is not as noticeable but still there

The black pieces were first wiped down with alcohol per the video I was following along with recommended. The brown sheath did not get the alcohol wipe after the strange results of the black pieces. The black pieces looked better after I applied Satin Sheen, but still not perfect. The brown piece has not been treated yet with the Satin Sheen.

I'd appreciate any advice on what's happening here, or if I should just swithc to a different kind of dye, or if I need to do something different before or during the dyeing process.

Thanks!

[tashabear]

I was told that to get a really deep black, it helps to put a layer of Evening Blue underneath. I've also read, elsewhere on this board, that Cranberry Red also works. I haven't tried the red yet, but I've gotten good results with the blue.

[dickf]

It doesn't look like you buffed the purple off of that black. Get yourself a soft cloth and buff that puppy until the residual dye isn't there anymore. It should then turn black without the purple.

[PJ234]

Thanks for the input, folks. The black pieces have been sealed so there's no hope for them now. They did improve with the Satin Sheen...I wanted to show the pics where it was most dramatic so that I could get some advice on what was happening to prevent it in the future. I buffed quite a bit, and I tried both just after applying the dye and also after letting it dry for a while, and I didn't see any change when I did that.

So is this normal for leather dye, or normal for the Eco-Flo dyes? What about the blue-greenish stuff on the magazine holder...is that the same or something different than the metallic/purplish hue?

[hidepounder]

I agree with Dick, PJ, it looks to me like you didn't buff off the residue that black leaves when it dries. I use a piece of wool skin with the wool clipped short....keep rubbing until no residue can be removed.

[CitizenKate]

So is this normal for leather dye, or normal for the Eco-Flo dyes? What about the blue-greenish stuff on the magazine holder...is that the same or something different than the metallic/purplish hue?

When I put on any dye (spirit or water-based) I get a kind of chalky surface residue, which sometimes has an iridescent quality to it (as shown in your photos). I usually buff it off before putting a sealing finish on it. The finish usually restores the luster of the leather and gives the color a more saturated appearance.

In the case of the coal black, I've always gotten a nice solid, deep black color once it's buffed and finished.

Kate

[PJ234]

Thanks again for the additional input. Do you all do any buffing or rubbing when the dye is wet, or do you leave it and do nothing until it has dried?

[CitizenKate]

I wait for it to dry before doing anything else to it.

Kate

[abn]

Applying a light coat of neatsfoot oil before your final finish also tends to even out and darken the Eco-Flo colors...

[Randy Cornelius]

Throw away that Eco Flo stuff and buy some real dye. Don't get your stuff wet with the Eco Flo, bleeds off like you cut it. Get some Quality Oil Dye if you what it to look good and stay that way. They should keep the Eco Flo in the prisions and schools.

Randy

[CitizenKate]

Don't get your stuff wet with the Eco Flo, bleeds off like you cut it. ... They should keep the Eco Flo in the prisions and schools.

After a comment like that, I guess I've got something to prove. And that is, Eco-Flo, like any other dye, needs to be sealed to give it a pleasing, finished appearance, and keep it from bleeding. And some of us actually like the stuff, perish forbid, because it doesn't fade in the sunlight like spirit dyes do.

I just did a quick demo using a couple of pieces of scrap and some Eco-Flo coal black. The first photo shows one swatch (on the left) with just dye applied, and a second swatch that has the same dye application, but has also been buffed and sealed with a wax finish.

(I don't use any of the acrylic finishes any more because they don't do enough to stop moisture. But that was a preference I chose when I was still using alcohol and oil-based dyes, so it has nothing to do with any differences between alcohol or water-based dyes.)

You can see the swatch that has not been finished has a kind of chalky metallic sheen to it, and it looks rather washed-out, even though the leather surface is fully saturated with color. The swatch that was finished has a nice deep black color to it, and a nice rich surface texture.

For the second photo, I took the two swatches and poured water on them. I caught the water that ran off the swatches onto some white paper towels so you could see how much color bled off. As you can see, the unfinished piece had quite a bit of bleeding. The finished piece had very little, and what little there was came from the edge where I missed it with the finish.

You can see the water beading up on the finished piece, whereas the unfinished piece absorbed any that did not run off. Those water beads remained until they evaporated without causing any water spots on the finish or the dye.

If you prefer other types of dye, that's your choice. In my opinion, they all have trade-offs you have to consider, but they all can be used effectively when applied and treated certain ways.

Kate

[ClayB]

Kate,

Thanks for taking the time to do that little demonstration. I happen to like the eco flow dyes too, but the stuff I do doesn't get exposed to water. They are the easiest to get to blend colors that I have ever tried. It's nice to know that if you take the time to figure out what works, new stuff does work.

[PJ234]

Thanks for everyone's input, and for Kate's demonstration. I did some more careful buffing of the brown knife sheath, and it does look better than it did, so hopefully the sealer coat will take it the rest of the way.

One final question if you don't mind in a similar vein I guess...I've had a hard time getting the dye inside the sheaths and holsters and belt loops, so this time I thought I would dye the insides first before sewing them up to get good coverage. I will still want to wet mould these pieces after I've sewn them. If the color bleeds some on the inside, I don't really care; but if it causes me problem with the finish on the outside, then I won't do it this way. Will this be an OK approach? If so, will I want to also go ahead and seal it too, or will that cause problems with the wet moulding once sewn up and assembled?

Thanks again, everyone!

[338uwm]

Newbie Question on the ecoflow. I just started useing ecoflo dies on holsters also. What is the best thing to use as a sealer. As the holsters I've made will probably get wet, and do not feel like haveing black and tan blue jeans.

[PJ234]

I'm starting to think that although Eco-Flo dyes might be fine dyes for certain applications, that for holsters and similar items that get wet moulded it might not be a good choice. I'm thinking that a spirit or oil dye (I need to learn more about these dyes) might be a better choice for my application...I'd welcome any additional input.

(By the way, I went ahead and dyed the inside of two more knife sheaths, one brown and one black, before sewing them up and wet moulding them. The brown seems more or less unaffected, but the black ran quite a lot when wet and unfortunately bled the bluish color all around the inside of the sheath mouth. I rubbed it a little bit so far and it didn't seem to come off at all.)

[abn]

Eco-Flo dyes are just fine for items that will have infrequent exposure to moisture. For example, they're fine for a belt that might see a little rain, as long as it's sealed with a water resistant top finish, like Satin Shene. I think they're fine for a holster used at the range, too. However, if I was building something for the field that might see a downpour, I would go for a spirit dye and a really waterproof finish, like Montana Pitchblend.

Different craftspeople have different methods, but to be honest, I never applied dye (even spirit dye) prior to wet molding. I always got all of my molding out of the way, and then applied the dye when the project was dry. To get the inside of a sheath or holster covered, I'd load up a dauber with dye and stuff it down as far as I could. Sure, a few spots were missed, but I doubt anyone is going to break out the Maglite to see how well you dyed the inside of your gear.

As with any process, over time you'll figure out what supplies, techniques and methods work best for the projects you're building. You're wise to experiment with different types of dyes/finishes and ask questions to see how others are using them.

-Alex

[hiloboy]

Kate, what wax finish do you use over your Eco-Flo?

[CitizenKate]

Kate, what wax finish do you use over your Eco-Flo?

Most of the time I spray on Bee Natural leather finish. I've also used Kiwi neutral shoe polish, and even Trewax floor wax, and gotten great results from all of them.

Kate

[Rawhide]

Most of the time I spray on Bee Natural leather finish. I've also used Kiwi neutral shoe polish, and even Trewax floor wax, and gotten great results from all of them.

Kate

I assume you're using your airbrush. What do you clean the bee natural up with?

[Shorts]

I dye after wet molding and seal the EcoFlo with Resolene.

I've yet to be contacted about rub off on the holsters and have experienced none with my belts.

Oddly enough, the splashes of brown that were spilled on the leather didn't budge when dipped for wet molding

If you want to dye throughout and be sure of it, dip dye.

Edited January 8, 2009 by Shorts

[CitizenKate]

I assume you're using your airbrush. What do you clean the bee natural up with?

I have a single-action sprayer I use to spray on finish. With this finish, I just keep the sprayer loaded with it pretty much all the time; it doesn't seem to require much cleaning, since the wax finish doesn't clog up the nozzle the way the acrylic finishes do. But when I do clean it, I just rinse it out with warm water.

Kate