Just bought a Singer 45K52, Did I make the right choice?

[warhorse1700]

Hi Everyone, 

I've been lurking around for a few years now but haven't asked any questions because I've always been able to find a thread with the information I'm looking for. I have found a few threads discussing Singer 45Ks but none specifically about the 45K52.

I've been making belts, wallets, gun holsters, card cases, knife sheaths and dog accessories for about 5 years. I feel like it's time to turn my hobby into a business, which is why I bought this machine

I picked the machine up over the weekend. The guy who was selling it bought it to fix horse blankets and harnesses but ended up with some health problems and can't operate the machine anymore. I was able to thread it, based on the 45K manual that found on the forum, and run the machine before I bought it. 

It's obviously an old machine but in great shape and had been recently re-built and tuned by a professional Industrial sewing machine repair man. People in the area swear by this repair man but so far I haven't gotten any response to my phone calls.

I'm pretty sure, from my reading, that it should be a decent machine for belts, dog harnesses and leashes, and maybe knife sheaths and gun holsters too.

My questions are: Do I actually have it threaded correctly?

Depending on the leather I'm putting through it, it sometimes pulls the knots through the bottom or top of the leather. Is this a tension problem?

It will only make an actual stitch at the slowest crawl. If it picks up any speed the thread breaks. Could this be a tension problem or something else?

How do I set the tension?

After looking through the manual that I found here, and then inspecting my machine, I think I'm missing some features that other 45Ks have such as: reverse and adjustable stitch length. Does this  machine really not have an adjustment for stitch length?

What is the wheel to the lower right, near the belt? Is it a bobbin winder?

Finally: what kind of foot does it have and should I get something different?

Thanks for all of the information that I have picked up here over the past few years. I hope you all can help me out with some of these questions.

 

 

[warhorse1700]

Sorry, I sized the pics too small to get any detail. These should be better for zooming in a bit.

[Constabulary]

This 45K model originally had a wax heating unit but I guess you don´t have it, right? You will not find other parts than needles, shuttle, and maybe some smaller standard parts for this machine. You will have a hard time finding presser feet at all. This is not the "standard" 45 this one is quite special so parts are no longer available as the machines is tooooo old. To nowadays standards I´d say the machine is outdated but that means nothing as long as it serves you for the purpose you need it for.

May I ask how much have you paid for this machine? Don´t know if you made the right choice. As long as the machine works for your purpose then why not. Seems to be a "top feed only" machine. It has no feed dog and needle feed would not work with this needle plate. I guess you can adjust the stitch length somewhere on the feeding mechanism, but I´m not sure. Otherwise it looks like a fixed stitch length machine as I don´t see a stitch length adjuster. Machine was made in 1916 but that means nothing when properly refurbished.

Most 45K do not have reverse just as yours.

I have to admit that I have not worked with this particular 45K (52 subclass) but with some other 45K and similar machines. So this 45K may have some "specialties".  Machine looks correctly threaded. You can adjust the tension on the thumb screws of the pre tension unit (back of machine top of head) and on the main tension unit of the face place. Not sure if my eyes are cheating me but the tension spring on the main tension unit on the face plate looks a bit light and probably incomplete. Usually the 45K main tension unit has 2 discs, 2 felt washers, a pulley, a (quite) heavy tension spring and the nut on the stud. Are all these parts present on your tension unit? I can post a picture of the tension unit later.

You also have to adjust the tension on the shuttle hook but that's mentioned in the manual

Thread breaking can be caused by too much tension, wrong needle / thread combination, poor / too old thread, burr in the needle eye or on other parts the thread runs over.

Here is a pictures how the original 45K52 setup looks like

Sorry - I have to run....

[warhorse1700]

Thanks for responding!

WOW! This thing realy is 100 years old? I looked it up but didn't believe it.

You are correct. I do not have the wax heating unit. I probably should have known that it is not a standard 45K since I couldn't find any information on the 52 subclass, anywhere. 

I paid $575 for it. I've been searching for months for a decent, used, cylinder bed machine but hadn't found anything in my area until this one. After a bit of research, I found that people were generally quite happy with their 45Ks so I decided to jump on it.

It does work so I don't feel like I made a bad choice, just maybe not the best one.

Thanks for the info on model and the tension adjustments. I'll play with those later tonight.

9 hours ago, Constabulary said:

main tension unit has 2 discs, 2 felt washers, a pulley, a (quite) heavy tension spring and the nut on the stud

No, I don't think that they are present, or at least, not complete. I would love to see a pic of what it's supposed to look like.

Thanks again for all of the information!

[jimi]

Hi There Warhorse, very nice 45 you have there, no doubt if the old timers made there saddles with this type of machine you can surely do your belts and stuff. in this link i uploaded the original parts manual for this machine a while back (if you are from the states and are into saddles and stuff this book was bought from bill lawrence) 

GEORGE LAWRENCE CO. HARNESS & SADDLERY

could you please upload some really close shots of the tension assembly´s and the foot part. as you see in the illustration this machine would have came with a wax heating arrangement above the head. this is where your first set of tension disks would be. someone has added a tension unit onto a small piece of metal strip on yours. member Evo on this forum has a 45k53 which is almost identical to yours and he also made a bracket and thread tension releaser also. this would be a great option for your machine and will help keep the thread in the right path. where you have the wire guide on top, put the bracket there, then put the wire guide on the side where you have the top set of tension disks. 

you dont seem to have the wing nut on yours, just a nut. but you should still be able to adjust the stitch lenght by adjusting the screw in and out then moveing the nut accordingly. check the parts list and you will see the part i mean (#NN34). you also have a different flywheel, yours looks like it is from a 133k. yes it is a bobbin winder down on the right. the original bobbin winder was the one in the illustration from constabulary which is above the wax heating arrangement or there was another option which is in the parts book #91400 which would wax your bobbin thread also. the feet are in the parts manual also, they have great illustrations of the feet used on this type of machine. it seemingly came furnished with a plain presser foot and three other feet with feeding points for 1/8", 1/10", 1/12" stitch. these feet would fit into your stitch lenght without leaving any marks on your leather. hope to see these close ups warhorse, regards jimi.

Edited August 2, 2016 by jimi

[Constabulary]

Vintage Singers are work horses. I have a 133K3 from 1932 - and it still works very well!

Here are pictures of the main tension unit but w/o the two felt / leather washers. The washers go between the disc and pulley, they are approx 1mm thick.

Jimi is "Mr. 45K" so your are in good hands with your machine

[jimi]

 haha Mr 45k! thanks folker. 

This is a similar machine to yours, you can see how the top thread path goes, first through a small eye then into the disks that is on a bracket. the 45k53 has a slightly different bracket and also has a curved wire on another bracket fixed to the presser bar. so when you lift the foot the disks open leaving your thread free to be pulled once you are finished. Evo can possibly show you how he done that one, he done a great job of doing the new parts for his. from a distance it looks like both springs on your bottom tension unit are not the correct ones?? although i could be wrong. if it is the same as the one in the parts manual then it goes with one spring, if it is the later type then it goes with two springs. seeing that the flywheel is from a 133k it could also be that the tention units were salvaged from there too?. the second foot on your machine looks very different from the one in the parts manual and in the illustrations?? does it have any kind of marking or parts nº??

Edited August 2, 2016 by jimi

[warhorse1700]

11 hours ago, jimi said:

hope to see these close ups warhorse, regards jimi.

Wow! Thanks for the pics and info jimi and Constabulary. I'm going to do more studying of the parts list and comparing to my machine tomorrow evening.

In the meantime here's a few more closeups of the parts that jimi requested. I'm trying to keep them as large and clear as possible.

[warhorse1700]

pic 2

pic 3

pic 4

[jimi]

ooops didnt get that link up the first time?? here it is: thanks for the pics, you have by the looks of it an original foot, possibly #91097 so at least you can make some new ones from the original if needed. i would imagine that the stitch length is set to that foot? the bottom tension like constabulary said is missing the washers,leather disks and original springs. it looks a bit flimsy to me that spring? so possibly you might not be getting the correct tension on this assembly. on the needle plate have a look in the hole, it might be rough in there? if it is it could be breaking the thread. it has to be smooth with no corners or nasty nicks from the needle hitting it. i dont think you have enough presser bar once the foot is lowered to make the bracket to release the disks??  this top tension unit is not original but maybe one from a normal 45k would screw right into the side where the screw is holding this assembly on?? it would be handy to have someone near with another 45k to compare.  will be gone for a few days so see you later. regards jimi.

 

[warhorse1700]

Jimi, Thank you for the parts list and links! I couldn't find that stuff anywhere.

I finally got ahold of the local repair guy. He came out this afternoon and found what was wrong. Are you ready...? THE NEEDLE WAS IN BACKWARDS!

I had seen the warning about the needle being backwards in another thread so I was already suspecting this might be the problem. I could have fixed it myself but I wanted to be sure that the whole machine was ready to go so I'm happy that I had the repair guy look at it and confirm it's readiness.

So far I've been practicing on scrap pieces of veg and latigo and it zips right through them without missing a stitch. Two 9/10oz layers of latigo cause noticeably more drag but i'm barely giving it any pressure on the clutch and I still have to use my hand as break on the fly wheel so it's really not that much of a strain. 

Overall I think I'm going to be quite happy with this machine. Thanks for all the advice and information, Jimi and Constabulary! 

I just put a short 49 second video up on YouTube.

 

[Darren Brosowski]

The feet remind me of the set I sell to do outsole seaming with the CB4500

 

[Constabulary]

Darren - you should probably link your Ebay shop in your signature here:

http://leatherworker.net/forum/settings/?area=signature

Edited August 7, 2016 by Constabulary

[Darren Brosowski]

Not being a sponsor of the site I will not do that but I do not mind mentioning if I have a product that nobody else seems to sell

[Wizcrafts]

1 hour ago, Darren Brosowski said:

The feet remind me of the set I sell to do outsole seaming with the CB4500

 

You got a photo of that outsole foot set?

[Colt W Knight]

I'd love to have that machine

 

[Evo160K]

Warhorse 1700,

Here are several pictures of the 45K53 that member Jimi mentioned I was restoring.  The 53 subclass feeds from the top and bottom independent of one another, either can feed faster or slower than the other, and either can be shut down to make it top feed or bottom feed only.  I think this type of feed may be advantages when sewing tubular goods or goods that tend to slip on one another.  Others on LW may know for sure.

The knob shown by the upper red arrow adjusts the stitch length of the needle thread by moving the knob/fulcrum shown by the middle arrow up and down,  Up is the longest stitch, down the shortest.   The knob/fulcrum at the middle arrow can be tightened down to prevent the stitch length from moving unintentionally.

The screw and locking thumb nut shown by the lower red arrow move the feeding presser foot with respect to the needle.  As far as I can tell, it doesn't change stitch length at all, it only positions where the presser foot comes down on the goods.  This may be to insure the points on the bottom of presser feet, such as yours, drop exactly into the needle holes.  Sure would appreciate it if some of you good people familiar with this type of feed would comment.

 

This next two pictures show the tension release bracket with hook and the thread retainer bracket that I had to fabricate thanks in great measure to a lot of guidance from Jimi.  Thank you Jimi.  The machine is amazing, it's taken a lot of fabrication, but it's running perfectly, and I've enjoyed every minute working on it.  It'll get paint once the 45K25 I'm redoing is completed..

 

 

Here's a picture of the front.

and a couple of pictures of the lifting mechanism.  The lift is adjustable.

And the face

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 7, 2016 by Evo160K

[Constabulary]

Nice to see all the details on theses machines - was about time for some documentation pictures. Lots of knowledge (and manuals?) got lost over the time.

AWESOME !!!

[warhorse1700]

Sorry I haven't posted recently. It's been a busy week. I did get to practice with it a little and am getting better at keeping my lines straight. It was pulling the bottom thread up through the top no matter how loose I had the top tension. I adjusted the bobbin case tension screw all the way in but it still pulled the bottom thread up. I took the screw out and removed that tension plate and could see that the thread has worn a groove so it wasn't going to give me enough tension. I found a new assembly on ebay for $35 with 5 bobbins so I'm going to give that one a try. In the meantime while I'm waiting for the new one, I bent the tension plate a little and I'm able to get good bottom tension and my stitches look a lot better now. 

 

[warhorse1700]

On August 7, 2016 at 6:09 PM, Evo160K said:

Warhorse 1700,

Here are several pictures of the 45K53 that member Jimi mentioned I was restoring.  The 53 subclass feeds from the top and bottom independent of one another, either can feed faster or slower than the other, and either can be shut down to make it top feed or bottom feed only.  I think this type of feed may be advantages when sewing tubular goods or goods that tend to slip on one another.  Others on LW may know for sure.

The knob shown by the upper red arrow adjusts the stitch length of the needle thread by moving the knob/fulcrum shown by the middle arrow up and down,  Up is the longest stitch, down the shortest.   The knob/fulcrum at the middle arrow can be tightened down to prevent the stitch length from moving unintentionally.

The screw and locking thumb nut shown by the lower red arrow move the feeding presser foot with respect to the needle.  As far as I can tell, it doesn't change stitch length at all, it only positions where the presser foot comes down on the goods.  This may be to insure the points on the bottom of presser feet, such as yours, drop exactly into the needle holes.  Sure would appreciate it if some of you good people familiar with this type of feed would comment.

 

This next two pictures show the tension release bracket with hook and the thread retainer bracket that I had to fabricate thanks in great measure to a lot of guidance from Jimi.  Thank you Jimi.  The machine is amazing, it's taken a lot of fabrication, but it's running perfectly, and I've enjoyed every minute working on it.  It'll get paint once the 45K25 I'm redoing is completed..

 

 

Here's a picture of the front.

and a couple of pictures of the lifting mechanism.  The lift is adjustable.

And the face

 

 

 

 

 

 

Wow, Evo160K! Yours even has the wax pot on top! I'd like to find one of those for my machine just for show. 

For the tension release, is that the top end of the needle bar that It's attached to? Mine doesn't come that far up. In fact when in the down position, it's below the surface of the housing and when up only extends 3/4" out of the top.

Edited August 14, 2016 by warhorse1700
I was able to adjust my foot so that the dimples on the bottom line up with the stitch holes. Now it feeds straighter and doesn't leave dots next to the line.

[Evo160K]

Warhorse1700'

Yes, those wax pots do look great, and they do complete the machine.  I looked for six months for one to finish my Singer 45K25,......had feelers out around the world.  Then, thanks to some really good people here on LW, that I had made commitments to, I ended up with three wax pots.  The second is on the Singer 45K53 machine in the picture above......I have the third.  It has no identifying name or number on it.......it appears identical to a Singer.  Attached are a couple of pictures, PM if you're interested or want more pictures:

 

That tension release assembly is attached to the top of the presser foot bar.  Take a look at the face picture above, the needle bar is the one to the right.  If need be, you could extend the length of your presser bar by welding a piece on to the top.

Here's a link to a company that sells a complete Singer 45K53 parts list (and others I assume) with scaled drawings.   https://proleptic.net/    You'll need to contact them, because that parts list doesn't show on their website.  Without those drawings, I would never have been able to make the parts that I did.

Edited August 14, 2016 by Evo160K

[warhorse1700]

Yes, that makes sense that it would be attached to the presser bar and not the needle bar. Thanks for the link to the parts company. I'm sure it will come in handy in the future.