3 phase power conversion

[AEMcClain]

So I took the leap and bought a clicker press, and now I am weighing my options as to how to hook it up. From what I can tell I have three options rotary converter, static converter, and VFD. I am leaning toward the VFD because it will be the only piece of machinery requiring a phase converter in the foresee able future. I thought I would pose the question here and see what you all do. 

[Seaboard]

Go with a VFD and it just needs to be sized to the next largest HP to cover the amp draw in the single phase conversion. Generally you would use a 7-1/2 HP drive on a 5 HP motor. Also depending on the HP of the clicker press motor you may be able to get away with using 110V input instead of 220V, but the later is better.

Most of the VFD's sold now have all kinds of pre-programmed crap in them that you don't need but just stick to one that is able to do the single phase power in. You may want to check out the full load amps because they vary a bit between manufactures. Yaskawa makes a really nice one that is rated for higher amps but Square D has some simple ones as well as Lentz, Toshiba, etc.

Hope that helps.

Chris

[AEMcClain]

Thank you, that is the direction I am leaning. 

[CowboyBob]

Since there's no electronics involved a simple one is real easy to make.I made one for our Bridgeport mill yrs ago & it still is working.All you need is an old 3 ph motor large than your motor ,run 2-110 v separate lines to it & continue on the the clicker motor.Then we hooked up a starter motor that spins the convertor motor.So we get the starter motor spinning first ,then turn the 220 on ,shut the starter off & the 220v convertor motor keeps running & as it runs it puts out the 3 phase.This does only work w/Deltawound motors(for the convertor).But the spare motor we had laying around just happened to work after we got it wired up.

PS. I did try a static convertor w/condenser in it & had some much power loss it wouldn't work,did an online search about convertors & found out about this.

[Mark842]

I run a rotary phase converter but I also run other 3 phase equipment.  Have no idea which is better as I have no experience with a VFD. Looked at them when I bought my phase converter and it seemed like they do a lot more than I need and I'm familiar with Rotary converters and new I could install on my own.

[GPaudler]

Go with a VFD. They are easy to set-up and reliable and you can find them cheap on eBay. They can be used to control speed and programmed for soft start. In a one-person shop where only one machine is likely to be running at any time, you can have a single VFD with an outlet into which you can plug any machine.

[AEMcClain]

I think I am going to go with a vfd. The electric motor on the clicker is a 1 hp 3.2 amps at 220 3 phase. From what I can find The 120 single phase to 220 3 phase vfd rated at 4.0 amps will handle the motor at full load and have some margin for safety. Here is the one I am looking at WEG VFD . According to what I have read this vfd does not need to be de-rated as long as the operating temp is below 122 degrees.

[Trox]

On Sunday, September 04, 2016 at 4:05 PM, AEMcClain said:

I think I am going to go with a vfd. The electric motor on the clicker is a 1 hp 3.2 amps at 220 3 phase. From what I can find The 120 single phase to 220 3 phase vfd rated at 4.0 amps will handle the motor at full load and have some margin for safety. Here is the one I am looking at WEG VFD . According to what I have read this vfd does not need to be de-rated as long as the operating temp is below 122 degrees.

I use such frequency controllers (drives) all the time, sine I do not have 3 phase current in my workshop. Here (Norway) its 220v on single and 380v on 3 phase but the principals are the same. I use the drives on solutions when I need to control the speed on the motor (in addition to convert the current). On my clicking machine I rewired the motor to have it running on single Ph. I used two big 70 micro Farad capacitors not to loose any staring up torque, it is as strong now as it was before running on 3 Ph. You can loose a little torque when you use these drives and on some frequencies they tend to make bad sounds. That's no problem when you can adjust the speed, just change the speed/Hertz and the sound dissappear. On a clicking machine you have to run on maximum speed/Hertz all the time, you just have to hope it will not sound bad on that frequency. Here is an other AC motor (1,2 Kw 3 Ph) I had wired for the single Ph current. This is a air compressor motor but of similar size as the clicking machine, wired exactly the same way.  Sorry for the bad picture quality, I can take new pictures if you are interested. Tor   

[Nuttish]

You can get a used single phase 1HP Baldor or Dayton for less than 150 and avoid the ~1/3 power loss you'll see with a VFD. 

[dikman]

I guess it all depends whether variable speed is required.

[catskin]

Is there any reason that a person can't just change the motor on a clicker press to the power available? ( Ex. 220 v )   For example is there other things on it that need power besides the motor?

[brmax]

I think its the cheapest solution, replacing the motor. I have seen some switching that would need to be evaluated and likely changed. Also some switching types are a on a low voltage relay type setup and may need updated.

What level of equipment are we considering, and it may help knowing any hp ratings.

Floyd

[catskin]

I am going to be looking at a clicker soon that I have been offered and was just wondering if changing the motor would be an option as compared to phase converters. After I see it I will have a better idea of hp. tons it puts out etc.

Changing switches would be easy enough for me, I do understand that part of electrical just haven't done anything with 3 phase yet.

Edited January 23, 2017 by catskin
added more detail.

[Trox]

On Monday, January 23, 2017 at 7:45 PM, catskin said:

I am going to be looking at a clicker soon that I have been offered and was just wondering if changing the motor would be an option as compared to phase converters. After I see it I will have a better idea of hp. tons it puts out etc.

Changing switches would be easy enough for me, I do understand that part of electrical just haven't done anything with 3 phase yet.

Every AC motor are originally 3 Ph, if it runs on single Ph it's rewired like in my picture above. (Or a little bit differnt) If the motor has a capacitor or two like mine (the white plastic cylinders) it's rewired for single Ph current. I'm talking about AC motors, DC motors (servo motors) are different, they are not used on machines like this (very expensive when they get this big). When a AC motor is rewired for single Ph it looses a bit torque, but it's always normal to use a bit bigger motor than neccessary when they build machines like these. Therfore, changing the motor will (narmally) not be necessary, just rewire the existing motor like in my example. By using two big capacitors, enough startup torque is stored in them to get the motor running (startup) like normal. When a motor is a bit to small for the aplication, it will struggle to make the startup. Fuses will blow and so on. Get hold of a couple of big capacitors on Ebay and get an electrician to rewiring the motor with them.  Mine are on 50 micro farad each and will work fine on motors from 750 to 2000 Watt. A electrician can calculate what power your clicker needs too, but my setup looses minimal power on a 1,2 Kw motor. It's not a big expensive job. Frequency converter/drives are only neccessary when you need to regulate the speed (or other aprameter) on the motor. They are quite expensive too, no need for such on a clicking machine.

Tor       

[catskin]

Thank you Trox, When I actually got to see this press I found out the owner was told wrong it is in fact 3 wire 220 volt ( like a electric stove or dryer )  So changing it would not be needed after all IF I buy it. 

[Trox]

56 minutes ago, catskin said:

Thank you Trox, When I actually got to see this press I found out the owner was told wrong it is in fact 3 wire 220 volt ( like a electric stove or dryer )  So changing it would not be needed after all IF I buy it. 

Ok, two lines and ground yes. Then it's just clicking away. Good luck, Tor