Tooling hardened leather armor

[TranscendentalTopiary]

I need some info on how to go about tooling leather that will be hardened for use as armor in sca heavy fighting and combat archery. No one in my local sca tools their armor so I'm not getting much help there, I've also spent probably a few hours both on search engines and searching this site looking for info but haven't found the answers to my specific questions.

 

I plan on taking my cut pattern piece (~10 oz veg tan) and getting it pretty well soaked with water then shaping and baking it in an oven at around 180°f. When the leather is no longer soaking wet but still damp (comparable to properly cased leather) I'll remove it, do any sk and tooling, keeping the shape, then put it back in the oven to fully dry. Once dry I'll paint on a few layers of wax reheating between coats until the leather is fully saturated with wax. 

 

Does this seem like the proper way to tool leather that will be hardened? I want to know what to expect without wasting too much leather. Other meathods I looked into seem like they swell and shrink the leather quite a bit and you loose definition in your tooling. Just not sure how fast the leather hardens up when still damp out of the oven to get started on the tooling. 

Another option i thought of is hardening the leather and doing my tooling on a separate thinner leather that wont be hardened and stitching that onto the hardened leather, just not sure if stitching holes would compromise the durability of the armor with repeated abuse. 

Thanks for any insight on this, it's greatly appreciated 

[Dwight]

Personally, . . . I have never had good fortune working with leather that was previously hardened, . . . it's just not the (pardon the pun) nature of the beast.

OTOH, . . . for what you want to accomplish, . . . take your leather, . . . cut it to the dimension and shape you desire, . . . stamp and tool, . . . and then dry it in a drying box that DOES NOT exceed 140 deg. F.  Let it hang in there until it is completely dry.

If you want to then harden it, . . . dip it in liquid beeswax, . . . you can then attach this to your armor with contact cement and stitching, . . . it WILL NOT COME OFF, . . . and if properly done, will not degrade the strength of the armor.

I've done this with some small pieces for special circumstances, . . .  and that piece of leather is super hard, . . . maintains definition, etc.

May God bless,

Dwight

Edited September 29, 2016 by Dwight

[TranscendentalTopiary]

Dipping it wont work for larger pieces, I'm going to have to paint and bake it. 

 

Doesn't the leather stay soft until it cools from being in the oven? So until it's fully dry and cool it would still be toolable right?

 

Trying to avoid attaching tooled leather onto the hardened leather as it'll increase the cost of the finished product, on the other hand you can put the tooled portions onto a new body if the hardened leather ever gets damaged in fighting. The guys in my sca have been known to dent steel pretty good. 

[DJole]

I made a back of the head piece for rapier (it attaches to a fencing mask) out of leather. I don't have a photo of it, but it's 3 pieces (2 halves, left and right) with a strip linking them together. It also has 2 articulated lames at the bottom of the neck.
There is a small bit of tooling (a monogram) on the left half.

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When the leather is no longer soaking wet but still damp (comparable to properly cased leather) I'll remove it, do any sk and tooling, keeping the shape, then put it back in the oven to fully dry.

There is no way that I could have done ANY tooling after the leather was hardened, so any tooling has to be done before the leather is hardened. Any hardening will shrink, thicken, and darken the leather, so intricate tooling is likely not going to work well. Attaching thinner tooled leather pieces to the hardened leather piece might be the only way to keep that decorative work sharp.

I'm not sure how you are going to take a HOT piece of damp leather out of the oven and expect to tool it. The leather has to be baked in the shape you want it-- I don't know if you can interrupt the process, lay it flat and tool it, and then return it to the oven.

I hardened my head protection piece via oven baking-- and be careful with the temperature and time, because getting the leather too hot will make it brittle. It will snap when flexed (I know this for a fact, when I baked one of the lames for too long, and I had to replace it.) I've never used wax, so I can't say anything about it. 

If you haven't done so already, you should check out Marc Carlson's guide to leather: <http://www.personal.utulsa.edu/~marc-carlson/leather/hl.html>. I got valuable information from his site. 

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 Other meathods I looked into seem like they swell and shrink the leather quite a bit and you loose definition in your tooling. Just not sure how fast the leather hardens up when still damp out of the oven to get started on the tooling. 

Boiling will certainly do this, and even oven baking will do this, as the steam from the wet leather is boiled out. 

This piece down in the photo below (the shell guard) was boiled to harden it (and that doesn't mean 212 degree F water! I kept the temp at about 180 degrees, as recommended by a few articles i read.) The boiling did affect the lines on the tooled shell, so they are less straight, and the beveling disappeared-- the beveling just became wider lines.
After it was tooled and dyed, I dipped it in the hot water for a few seconds (I think 10, but I am not sure), and then I placed it into a form to mold it into the curved bowl shape until it was cool and dry. The gold is acrylic paint applied afterwards. 
 

Edited September 30, 2016 by DJole
added relevant quotes

[TranscendentalTopiary]

I was unsure how quickly the leather becomes hard once the baking process begins. I know when dipping in hot water/wax it remains pliable until after it has cooled a bit. I was hoping the oven meathod would be similar but now I'm thinking it isn't, or that the window where it is warm and soft - cool and stiff is too small to get any tooling done. 

 

I was thinking to do my tooling on my anvil horn to keep the shape made from forming and still have a solid surface to tool over. Also using oven mits to handle the hot leather.  No one seems to do it this way, so I'm guessing it doesn't work.

 

How long are you keeping it in the oven for? Will try a couple ways of doing this whenever tandy has a sale on their leather and will update

 

Thanks!

[DJole]

7 hours ago, TranscendentalTopiary said:

I was unsure how quickly the leather becomes hard once the baking process begins. I know when dipping in hot water/wax it remains pliable until after it has cooled a bit. I was hoping the oven meathod would be similar but now I'm thinking it isn't, or that the window where it is warm and soft - cool and stiff is too small to get any tooling done. 

I was thinking to do my tooling on my anvil horn to keep the shape made from forming and still have a solid surface to tool over. Also using oven mits to handle the hot leather.  No one seems to do it this way, so I'm guessing it doesn't work.

How long are you keeping it in the oven for? Will try a couple ways of doing this whenever tandy has a sale on their leather and will update

 

I can only claim very limited expertise since I've only ever done one piece in an oven, but I'll share my limited experience with you gladly.

The leather in the oven gradually got harder as time passed. So I don't think there would have been a window (like  you are asking about) when the leather can be pulled out and be warm AND soft enough for tooling.
Plus, if the leather needs to be cased for tooling, it would have very little or no moisture left from time in the oven. So if it were able to be tooled, you'd have to wet it again, and it would cool down and lose its shape, I think.
That's an interesting idea about tooling on the anvil horn-- I have no idea if it would work or not. Time for you to pull out some scrap leather and give it a try! I don't think I could tool with oven mitts on, but maybe others can.

I don't remember how long my one baked piece was in the oven for-- I'd have to go see if I can find the directions I used from a few online sources. It wasn't as long as you might think, though. Too long = scorched, burned, brittle and useless leather. 

Let me put a couple pix of my armor piece up.
It's hard to keep the leather from warping or wrinkling in unexpected ways unless it's fitted tightly around a rigid, oven safe form (which mine was not). 
The tooled monogram worked okay-- it's not too complicated and is mostly flat rather than a three dimensional design. 
The back strip joining the two halves together warped a bit, and you can see the left side (above and to the right of the monogram) has some wrinkles in it. 
I didn't really care too much about the looks, since (A) this was a piece only for me, not sold to anybody else, (B) it was the first time I had tried it,  and (C) it was going to be struck and stabbed with swords, so it would get scratched and dinged.

Edited September 30, 2016 by DJole

[TranscendentalTopiary]

Yeah, apparently oven drying doesn't take very long at all. Guess that idea is out.

Using the anvil should work just like using granite to tool over, just not as comfortable and a bit fiddly lol.

 

I think your head piece looks great imo

 

[DJole]

Thanks for the compliment. I like the way it looks (the design), but the little flaws don't matter-- it's not meant to be pretty! ;-)
Next time I do one of these, I'll have a much better idea of how to get it right.
 

[TinkerTailor]

Ever thought of hot-stamping the hardened leather?

[TranscendentalTopiary]

Don't have the supplies to hot stamp atm. Funding is a bit limited so I'm trying to keep costs down and still move forward with projects