Members ConradPark Posted January 1, 2017 Members Report Posted January 1, 2017 The best thing about this forum is all the contributing members that spend every day commenting in the forums in a positive and encouraging way. Especially those that keep saying the same mantras over and over again. It spreads a warm feeling of a positive attitude that I'm sure will continue to affect people in all kind of good ways. This is how communities are build and fellowship created. Helping each other and be happy for each others effort in a common interest. Thank you all for being such a good role models and great personalities. (the emoji I wanted to insert wasn't available. Probably for the best, as I'm sure someone would feel offended - oh, someone already is?! Doesn't matter, then!). Quote
Members CaptQuirk Posted January 1, 2017 Members Report Posted January 1, 2017 I am offended, that you would assume that I might be offended... Quote
Mark842 Posted January 1, 2017 Report Posted January 1, 2017 48 minutes ago, JLSleather said: Beret -- I like it But then, I've always been a dog lover, so you already had a leg up Get it.. leg up.... Mark, you bring up a couple of points, though I admit I'm not entirely sure why. I mean, if you don't want to show a pic, then don't. I wasn't necessarily talking about putting pics here (in fact, I suggested your own web site). I'm simply saying that IF you are in business to sell it, then to sell it to me then I need to see it. This could be done with a simple link (Beret did that nicely). I bought a no-name pneumatic stapler about 10 years ago, for about 40% of the Bostitch or the Makita. Still works great. They sold it to me by showing it to me. I wouldn't bet your last dollar on this one. LOTS of folks around leather -- well.. nevermind.. nothing will change and I'll just be irritated Surprising that you see "being in business" and "making art" as two different things. For those who "just" make art, then I guess it wouldn't matter if someone saw it or not. No reason to show it if you aren't trying to sell it. For those "being in business to make money", how will i buy it if I haven't seen it?@! "Surprising that you see "being in business" and "making art" as two different things. " I do. I just consider the art the business and for the market I sell to I find the end product and the customers far more interesting than the leather product itself. If every business should only be validated by whether or not the product is considered art it really makes me wonder what the owner of Porta-Potty and countless other business had in mind. For some the joy is in making the product. For others the joy is in building the business and having happy customers. "For those "being in business to make money", how will i buy it if I haven't seen it?@!" My product is for a very specific niche market. Posting it in here is of no interest to me because most people in the trade would make my product for themselves. They are not my target audience. My target is those that can't or don't want to be bothered to make it. If part of my business was selling patterns for what I make I would be posting info about them in here. I have no interest selling patterns. Quote
Members CaptQuirk Posted January 1, 2017 Members Report Posted January 1, 2017 If you are an artist, i.e., you make an artistic item. If you have people who like said items you make, and are willing to give you money, it becomes a business transaction. Making a lot of items, and are finding a good demand, it is a business. If you just do it, making artistic items, and don't care if anybody buys them or not, you just enjoy doing it... that is a pretty good thing in itself, and nothing at all wrong with that. Quote
Contributing Member JLSleather Posted January 1, 2017 Author Contributing Member Report Posted January 1, 2017 45 minutes ago, Mark842 said: For some the joy is in making the product. For others the joy is in building the business and having happy customers. Exactly. So tell me again why we're discussing this? I don't buy what I can't see. You don't show me, because you don't want me to buy. Where is the problem? The "pet rock" sold MILLIONS of copies, at $4-8 each. Then there were "imitation" pet rocks. Then after some years, there was a "re-release" of the "original" pet rock I didn't buy any, and I didn't sell any, so... I did recognize that there were "knock offs" and that was largely due to the product being something that anyone could easily duplicate. But I didn't care... Quote "Observation is 9/10 of the law." IF what you do is something that ANYBODY can do, then don't be surprised when ANYBODY does.
Mark842 Posted January 1, 2017 Report Posted January 1, 2017 5 minutes ago, CaptQuirk said: If you are an artist, i.e., you make an artistic item. If you have people who like said items you make, and are willing to give you money, it becomes a business transaction. Making a lot of items, and are finding a good demand, it is a business. If you just do it, making artistic items, and don't care if anybody buys them or not, you just enjoy doing it... that is a pretty good thing in itself, and nothing at all wrong with that. Absolutely correct! My point is some seem to think if you happen to do it for a business that in their opinion you hurt the trade. As for the product being art, I hear it every day in customer comments. IMO most of what I sell to them is not art. If you want to consider a piece of leather cut by a clicker die to a certain shape and sewn art, that is up to you. It is an excellent quality product that anyone with the correct tools and the correct leather can make. I can tool quite good, I have an affinity for it but when push comes to shove I rarely have time to do it. From the dollar and sense point of view it makes no sense for me make a "work of art" because in the same period of time and can make more money selling the stuff I click out. The thing I don't understand is why it obviously offends some that some of us do this for a living. Our goal is to make a quality product, have fun and make money at it on the way. I love the fact that there are tons of highly skilled artisans in here making awesome products. A lot of them with skill far past anything I could ever do. I would never knock them for doing it first as art and if they happen to sell it, a business. I guess I'll just go back to not commenting on anything publicly in here and just PM those that I have built relationships. Quote
Members CaptQuirk Posted January 1, 2017 Members Report Posted January 1, 2017 Just cutting out the leather and putting together the same thing that everyone else is doing, is not art. It is the little touches, the tooling and things, that set it apart from mass produced items. Quote
MADMAX22 Posted January 1, 2017 Report Posted January 1, 2017 2 hours ago, Mark842 said: Absolutely correct! My point is some seem to think if you happen to do it for a business that in their opinion you hurt the trade. As for the product being art, I hear it every day in customer comments. IMO most of what I sell to them is not art. If you want to consider a piece of leather cut by a clicker die to a certain shape and sewn art, that is up to you. It is an excellent quality product that anyone with the correct tools and the correct leather can make. I can tool quite good, I have an affinity for it but when push comes to shove I rarely have time to do it. From the dollar and sense point of view it makes no sense for me make a "work of art" because in the same period of time and can make more money selling the stuff I click out. The thing I don't understand is why it obviously offends some that some of us do this for a living. Our goal is to make a quality product, have fun and make money at it on the way. I love the fact that there are tons of highly skilled artisans in here making awesome products. A lot of them with skill far past anything I could ever do. I would never knock them for doing it first as art and if they happen to sell it, a business. I guess I'll just go back to not commenting on anything publicly in here and just PM those that I have built relationships. Yet on the other hand there are a bunch around here that are offended by the guy making a few items in his spare room and selling them, apparently that competes with there business and they hate on them regardless of that persons skill set. There is a pretty well known sheath maker who had a big long tirade on there website about why you shouldnt buy from forum people with all kinds of belittling comments and what not. I remembered when they started out on forums and sent them an email about such and also pointed out many forum type people that make better items then they produce. Also pointed out I remember them asking a bunch of how too's on forums when they started. They never responded but did take down the page long anti basement maker lol. Quote
Members CaptQuirk Posted January 1, 2017 Members Report Posted January 1, 2017 21 minutes ago, MADMAX22 said: Yet on the other hand there are a bunch around here that are offended by the guy making a few items in his spare room and selling them, apparently that competes with there business and they hate on them regardless of that persons skill set. I WISH I had a spare room when I started! I had to compete with the rest of the family for the dining table! And you are right, I suppose, about new people getting hate for making some money. But, there are a lot of folks who have guns/knives/whatever that they want a decent leather item for. And, judging by the amount of folks here, a whole lot more people making them. Is my holster better than the next guy's? Maybe not. But I do my best to make a decent item, and sell it for a decent price. I'm certainly not getting rich, but I do well enough to buy new tools and materials. If you can't compete, you are doing something wrong. Quote
Members tnhomestead Posted January 1, 2017 Members Report Posted January 1, 2017 I do compete for the dining room table right now -- but i lost that battle! And the spare room too! Quote
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