First Saddle Design

[HannahT]

Hello everybody!

I'm looking forward to starting my first saddle, and I'd like some advice. I've been doing leatherwork for a little while now, but I've never attempted a saddle. What style of tree/rigging/etc. will be the best for me to start on? I obviously want to make something that works, but what is least likely to get me in big trouble halfway through? I have my eye on Sonny Felkins' Quality Mfg trees, and I'm hoping I can describe the kinds of horses I ride most often to him so he can make me a tree that fits most of them. I have the Al Stohlman books and am reading them, pretty much word for word. I like a smaller round skirt with either flat plate or in-skirt rigging, and I'm looking at either a wade tree or something like a bowman. This will probably end up being my personal saddle (I like trail riding and occasionally get the chance to do some ranch work). Am I heading in the right direction?

I'm also curious about strainer plates vs. leather seats, and whether I can do a narrower Cheyenne roll than normal because I don't care for the look of a really wide one.

Edited October 17, 2016 by HannahT

[Big Sioux Saddlery]

Hello Hannah. What I recommend for your first build and what I like to ride are two different things.  A slick fork is sure easier to fit up than a swell fork, even though I really don't like riding a slick fork. I grew up riding swell forks and still prefer them. Some people never do get the hang of putting in nice-looking welts, and if you can eliminate that step in your first one, it will save you some aggravation.  I would avoid an in-skirt rig for your first one, even though it is my preferred rigging style for my own use.  They are a little more complicated to build than either a flat plate or dee ring rig. In a way, with an in-skirt, you are combining two major steps in the process into one that is more complicated than either of the two steps by themselves, and it took me quite a few before I came up with patterns and a sequence that worked well for me, and it is NOT the way the Stohlmans do it!  The Stohlman books are good and I wish I'd had them starting out, but it seems they go out of their way to make some things more difficult than they need to be. 

I experimented quite a bit with ground seats before I settled into the way I do it now, and I never say I'll never change it.  I tried a couple all-leather ground seats. My thoughts are this: I think I can get a closer, narrower, less bulky ground seat using a strainer. All-leather adds weight, and I feel that if I skived it down as thin as I wanted to in order to get the seat I wanted, it would compromise the strength. However, many builders much more experienced and better than myself use that method successfully.  I also experimented with a two-piece metal strainer, but have come back to a standard one- piece metal using risers so I don't have to cut stirrup slots. I have seen so many old saddles, even by reputable makers, where the rawhide was scored cutting the slots and with time it spilt apart, weakening the tree in that area.

A narrow Cheyenne roll is easier than a wide one, and I like the look of them also. I was surprised at how easy it was when I built my first narrow roll.

 It will take you a few saddles to develop your own rhythm and style of building. Hopefully you'll hear from Keith Seidel or one or the others who has reached the level of a master of the craft. Best of luck and keep us posted.

[oltoot]

What he said with a little extra to think about. Skirt rigs require some sewing experience to get them right whereas a plate rig is pretty much straightforward and well within the capacity of any good machine. And with a good set of buck rolls you will have most of what a swell fork provides without the weight. Sonny Felkins is a great choice IMHO.

[HannahT]

Great advice. Now I'm going to ask something that may make you all think I'm crazy. I know Hermann Oak is the best to use, and Wickett & Craig is pretty close. I've used W&C before and it's gorgeous. But for a first saddle, since I just KNOW I'm going to make about a thousand mistakes, would it be okay to use Tandy skirting, at least for part of the saddle? If it won't work, I won't use it. I just thought I might be able to use the side I have for stuff like the ground seat, horn covering, maybe the fenders or something.

[Big Sioux Saddlery]

Please do not use the Tandy skirting for anything that matters!  When I built my very first saddle, I had no other resources other than Tandy.  I had no account at Weaver, didn't even know they existed, had no idea that I could buy direct from HO, and even if I had, the minimum order would have been impossible at that point.  I don't think Wickett was even in the US at that time.  I still have that first saddle, built with Tandy skirting.  I've taken pretty good care of it, in that it gets oiled periodically, but I wish I had used good leather. For one thing, HO and Wickett are so much easier to work than cheap imported stuff.  I don't know if it's the tannage, or If all the stretch and moldability has been taken out of the inferior brands, but it does not work up as nicely or easily as the good stuff tanned here in the US. Also, poorer, cheaper leather tends to grow mold and mildew much quicker than the better stuff.  It does not respond to reconditioning as well either. I got a saddle in last winter that I built back in the early 2000's. The owner brought it in for a clean and oil and ordered another. This saddle had never been oiled since it left my shop when it was new and had dried cow manure on the flank cinch and billets, fenders and stirrup leathers and it had been there for awhile.  I like getting my work back after it's been used for years. It allows me to evaluate my methods and materials.  I was amazed at how well the leather responded to careful reconditioning.  Cheap leather will not "come back" like that saddle did.  If you wish, I suppose it wouldn't make any difference to use what you have in the ground seat, except it would drive me crazy knowing that I did!  I would not use it for anything that shows or where durability (such as fenders) is important. Just my opinion:-).  Leather that is a little lighter in weight might make sense for your first one as it will be easier to work.  So many people think heavy=quality and that is just not true.  Use good sense when cutting and use the right leather for the right parts and you'll get by a little lighter. Plus it'll be lighter to throw up on a horse;-)

[cowboycolonel]

Hannah,

 

Here's a lengthy answer from one guy's perspective.  When I built my first saddle (out of Al Stohlman's books) I chose a Wade tree because I wanted to eliminate as many variables as I could, ande thus could cut the cost of my learning.  I used a Bowden Tree because of availability, reputation, and cost, figuring... well, what if I make a mistake.  I studied the different types of rigging that I'd seen (I'd been repairing for about ten years before I decided to build) and chose Flat plate rigging for several reasons.  It's stronger than in-skirt.  It's straight forward, requiring fewer measurements, and if you have to tear it out and replace it, it won't cause a total re-build and possibly re-design of the saddle. 

One of the best, first lessons I learned was to talk to someone who has already built several saddles.  Yeah, I know there are videos out there, but they don't answer most of the questions that a first-timer might have.  For example, I decided to build everything out of leveled skirting, and started following Stohlman's recipe by cutting the gullet cover -- out of prime leather.  After cutting out six of these, I decided to ask a maker and he told me that the gullet should be cut from the stretchy leather from near the belly - and unless it's going to be tooled, it doesn't make much difference how thick it is, because all it does is cover the tree - no weight or stress.

I also fell into the trap that Sioux spoke about -- equating thickness with strength.  Not True!!!  Just like plywood, two layers can be stronger than one. Now I use 11/12 for riggings backed by 8/9.  No need to go for 15 oz leather that's hard to work with -- especially for Saddle #1.

I agree with Sioux on choice of suppliers as well.  It might just be that the leather you get from Tandy will work and nobody else will know -- but you will always know, and you won't be as proud of your work.  First saddles are not cheap!  My first too 5 sides of leather and about six months.  That's because I had no idea where I could recover or where the measurements were a bit less critical.  Now I use two sides and build in about 100 hours, exclusive of tooling.  I can build heavy on demand, but a working saddle (just like the one I live in for up to eight hours a day at times) comes in at about 33 pounds, and that's great for a saddle you rope and brand calves out of. 

I heartily suggest that you do the following.  Even if you're only intending to build one saddle, buy a maker's stamp.  Buy a quality tree, quality leather, and quality hardware.  Then take as long as it takes to do a job you'll be proud to show off and put your stamp where it proclaims that this is your work and you're proud of it. Even if you have to tear out a stitch line a few times, make it something you'd want to show off. If you need help and no maker is available to you locally, then get back to this site and post your questions,  You won't find a more handy resource. 

Squawk if you need help.  Good luck, and happy building.

 

[cowboycolonel]

Oops, forgot to address the cantle question.  My first saddle, and most I've built since then, had a straight up cantle - no Cheyenne roll.  Not only do I like the buckaroo look, but again, it eliminates several variables.  Primarily, when you go to add the binding, you will find the corners VERY difficult to stitch, and even more difficult with a Cheyenne roll because you will be working in the blind for more of the time.  I prefer a straight up cantle with a rawhide binding, but if I'm going to bind with leather, then I use a blind stitch so the back stitches don't show.  When someone rides up behind you, that stitch line will scream at them if it is other than perfect, and it doesn't take more than one bad stitch to make it so. 

I make with either a full leather seat or with a two-piece strainer, which I make.  Both approaches have advantages,, but I don't find the use of leather to be necessarily too much heavier.  I would caution you to stay away from rawhide though -- too fiddly for a beginner and takes too long to dry properly.  I don't cut holes/slots for stirrup leathers, but take them into account while building the ground seat, so I don't have the problem that Sioux mentioned about scoring the rawhide. 

 

If you think you are going to ride this saddle on your horses, then make a jig -- I can tell you how -- and send it to Arlen down at Bowden saddletree.  He'll work with you to get it right, and if you need to go to a custom tree. the marginal cost is only about $35. If you want to take a flyer, just buy a tree that you like the looks of and use it as a learning tool,.  If you've done quality work, you'll probably be able to sell it.  But if you've done great work, you won't want to.

[HannahT]

You guys are really clearing up some stuff for me. Cowboycolonel, a jig would be wonderful. I do intend to use this saddle myself, and right now I'm working part time and thought I'd have plenty of time to build one (but unfortunately not a whole lot of extra cash). I'm getting REALLY tired of production saddles, and I want something that makes me and my horses happy. Burning through 5 sides of Hermann Oak or Wickett & Craig scares me... Hopefully I can glean enough from everybody on here so I won't make too many huge mistakes. Have you ever used the pre-dyed skirting from W&C before? I'm wondering if it would save me some dye money and trouble of trying to get my dye even.

[cowboycolonel]

I have used pre-dyed stuff, but I usually end up tooling the leather, and then you have to antique it or hi-lite it to make the carving pop.  Dye is not that expensive when you're talking about a saddle, is it?  It only takes a quart.  That's negligible when compared to the other costs.  Again, referring back to my first, I used Fiebing's Antique Mahogany.  Very forgiving when it comes to getting an even finish and if everything goes south, you can always cover it with a proper dye. 

I could type something up here, but I would just be repeating what Bowden has on hand.  Call 915-877-3191 and ask them to send you instructions for measuring your horse for a tree,  If it turns out that your horse is "nominal" they won't charge you custom prices, and if you get a stock tree that you don't like, you can return it for the cost of the shipping.  Bowden is wonderful do deal with.  Website www.saddletree,com for choices on stock trees.

There's no need for you to use up 5 sides.  I did because I had to invent my own wheel at every piece.  With Leatherworkers.net at your disposal, you should be able to get by with 3 or less.  Do you have a supplier near you where you can look at the leather beforehand?  Are you going to tool the leather? Smooth or rough out? Halfbreed? 

Maybe you could share what your "dream saddle" looks like and we can be of more help?

 

[HannahT]

 I'm thinking about roughout in the seat only, and the rest a very dark brown (maybe Fiebing's show brown). Either a wade or a roper bowman, with a round skirt like the wades usually have or maybe a bit smaller, and a mulehide wrapped horn. I want to tool oak leaves and acorns on the jockeys, fenders, etc. if I'm brave. I haven't done much tooling. I love the idea of a rawhide cantle binding. The only reason I thought about Cheyenne rolls is because it's easier for me to get it up on my horse (I saddle up like Clinton Anderson).