First Saddle Design

[Squilchuck]

Hannah,  I have made two saddles pretty much on my own using books and videos.  Here are some suggestions from my experience.

·         Find a local mentor to whom you can ask questions and show your work from time to time.  My farrier has been making saddles for 40 years, so each time he comes out for the horses he answers my questions and checks my work. 

·         I first bought the Stohlman books and read the first two volumes well.  The wealth of knowledge, discussion, and detailed instructions are invaluable.  I later made the Harry Adams book one of my go-to sources, in particular for instructions for making patterns.  His instructions are less detailed than Stohlman’s and harder to follow sometimes.  The Jeremiah Watt DVD is great for seeing how he makes saddles and I got many tips on saddle making and other leather work. 

·         For my first saddle, I made Stohlman’s saddle #1 to keep things simple.  There are many ways to do some things, so I tried his method first like a cook book so as not to get too confused.  I scanned the patterns then enlarged and printed them on my computer ( in pieces for assembly if large).  Some things Stohlman does I‘ve found can be done easier, maybe better for me:  didn’t use the rigging skirt or make the rigging jig, found a better way to cut the seat ears, used fewer  tacks and more screws.  Adam’s book of the Watt DVD were my guides. I love Stohlman’s method for cutting leather conchos with a half punch – I can make any size concho I want from the same leather and its cheaper than getting expensive rosette punches. 

·         For my second saddle, I pretty much followed Adam’s procedures, unless I found Stohlman’s ideas easier or better. In particular, I found Stohlman’s way of fitting and cutting the ears on the seat cumbersome and inexact.  I suggest you use the measurement procedures  from Adams or Watt, which are similar.  I made patterns the way Adams describes.

·         I use 11/13 oz. Hermann Oak skirting leather.  Saddle leather that weight will last forever for most riders, is easier to work,  and won’t make as heavy a saddle that’s made from 13/15 oz. leather.  I used thinner HO strap leather for some pieces that require thinner leather, rather than trying to split or skive skirting leather.  I have a nice Heritage bench skiver/splitter to thin strap-width pieces – that skiver/splitter is one of my most valuable tools for leather work.

·         Don’t use cheaper skirting leather like Tandys if possible – you will be investing many hours making the saddle so the extra cost for high-quality leather that stamps, forms, and takes oil/dye well is well worth it.  I used to buy cheap leather when I started and wondered why my stamping, shaping and coloring was inconsistent or crappy.  I only use HO leather for all my projects. I have found Wickett and Craig to be good, too, but a bit less pliable and easy to cut.  The same quality and time issues apply to stamps: I used to economize with Craftool stamps, but now only use Barry King stamps, even though they cost 2-3 time more, for crisp clean imprints. 

·         I used custom trees from Bowdens for both saddles, mainly because they make custom trees from horse measurements using the Dennis Lane template system.  Both trees fit my horses like a glove, and the quality was good.    

·         I’d keep the stamping and carving to a minimum to focus on the saddle making.  Some parts like the skirts and jockey are easy to stamp, but the swells with their curve can be tricky to basket stamp straight. 

·         I found the hardest part was cutting the seat to fit around the swells.  On both saddles I made a mistake and had to buy a third hide to cut out a new seat.  Go slow and be careful not to cut out too much in front of the swells. 

·         The first cantle binding was a regular straight-up binding.  I used the hidden stitch Stohlman describes and it worked well.  I am sure my back stitching would have shown very uneven.  The hidden stitch is easy and looks nice.  I did a Cheyenne roll on the second saddle and had to do the binding over four times before I could get a wrinkle free back.  Make sure you use thin stretchy leather and skive the back.  One big problem was I tried to outsmart the pros and cut a piece that curved like the cantle, which put too much leather in the corners to tuck.  Stohlman’s straighter pattern worked.

Hope this helps.  --John

[Squilchuck]

I just reread your original note.  I did a leather ground seat in the first saddle, then used a strainer plate in the second. Can't say which is better, but I likely will use a strainer in my next saddle.  Good to try both methods.  If you make a Wade then the swell cover should be easier than Stohlman's saddle #1.  Stohlman shows how to cover round swells in volume 3 of his series. I have done both laced and welted swells, and found neither not too difficult using his instructions.  I used standard ring rigging because that is what I am used to, and thought it would be lighter and easier to make.  I am going to put flat-plate rigging in a Wade saddle this winter.  If you will be trail riding, I'd wrap and lace cover your stirrups; the edges of my stirrups with tooled covers sewn on the edges took a beating from brush while trail riding this summer.  The end of my brain dump....  Here are photos of my saddles 1 and 2. Lots to improve on, but on the whole not bad. 

[Big Sioux Saddlery]

19 hours ago, Squilchuck said:

I just reread your original note.  I did a leather ground seat in the first saddle, then used a strainer plate in the second. Can't say which is better, but I likely will use a strainer in my next saddle.  Good to try both methods.  If you make a Wade then the swell cover should be easier than Stohlman's saddle #1.  Stohlman shows how to cover round swells in volume 3 of his series. I have done both laced and welted swells, and found neither not too difficult using his instructions.  I used standard ring rigging because that is what I am used to, and thought it would be lighter and easier to make.  I am going to put flat-plate rigging in a Wade saddle this winter.  If you will be trail riding, I'd wrap and lace cover your stirrups; the edges of my stirrups with tooled covers sewn on the edges took a beating from brush while trail riding this summer.  The end of my brain dump....  Here are photos of my saddles 1 and 2. Lots to improve on, but on the whole not bad. 

Very nice job on a first and second saddle! This is exactly what I meant when I said I'm amazed at some of the first work shown on this forum that is produced using the educational material that is available today.  And excellent advice from someone that has recently been through the early learning process.

[Ken Nelson]

Lewis trees have the strainer  fiberglassed in them and are really easy to get a good ground seat on.  Good Trees.  I have been using them for 8 years and never have had one come back.

Edited October 30, 2016 by Ken Nelson
mistake

[Squilchuck]

Thanks, Big Sioux.  I forgot to mention that this forum also is a great resource for learning and troubleshooting!  --John

[HannahT]

I hope my first saddle turns out as well as yours! I have all 3 Stohlman books and I've ordered the Harry Adams book. Hopefully I can get everything right. I think I'm going to try a totally plain, smooth, wade with a straight cantle binding. I like the W&C drum dyed skirting so I may try that for this one. Squilchuck, did you cut your own stirrup leathers or buy them precut? I've seen HO leathers on a couple sites and if they're all I need of the heavy stuff, I may buy them as blanks.

I'm really starting to get a feel for how complicated a saddle is. Luckily I don't want a show saddle--I just want to be able to trail ride and do a little occasional ranch work (not that there's much of it to do here in central Kentucky, but I enjoy it). I'm hoping that if I can give the tree maker a good enough idea about the kind of horses I ride, he can fit their general back type and then I can focus on not making too much of a mess. 

[Squilchuck]

I cut my own stirrup leathers from the same 11/13 oz. side.  If you want heavier 13/15 oz. leather, then the blanks would be a good option, unless you're building the saddle from 13/15 oz. then cut your own.  To help cut this long stuff I bought a 6 ft. metal rule from the hardware section of Lowes (they are surprisingly cheap - maybe less than $20)  and use a regular utility knife/box cutter with expendable blades.   (Jeremiah Watt cuts his freehand with a round knife on the video - wish I had the confidence/skill to get a straight line freehand for that length!)  With a plain saddle be careful with scratches and other marks because they are not hidden by tooling/stamping.  Trim your fingernails!    Use some denatured alcohol to clean off oils and smudges before oiling.  One thing I found is not to rush.  Sometimes you get to a point when you just want to finish a piece and sort of rush, then make a mistake.  I learned the hard way it is better to stop and come back when you are fresh.  Good luck!   

[cowboycolonel]

Hannah,

 

I build for cowboys - not normally arena riders.  The leathers that I build are normally 11/13 oz leather, and There has never been a problem with them.  In Fact, if you are going to use Superior (Kreger) QC buckles (as opposed to Blevins) you will find that the medium size fits 11/13 while the larger ones with longer shanks are required to fit thicker leather. Not to discount Sioux' advice, but remember that her work centers around big urn horses,  Daily cowboy work, including brandings of over 500 calves per day, every other day, for four months at a time will arrest to not having to go to the heavier leathers.  ...and if you're just going to be trail riding or riding for leisure, do yourself a favor and stay lighter.  See what Keith Seidel has to say on the matter.

 

In addition to trimming your finger nails, watch out for the buttons on your cuffs.  They leave impressions that will be hard to hide without tooling.

Also, go to your local Ace hardware store and buy a flexible ruler - 24 inch will work nicely.  It really helps in marking centers.

[Big Sioux Saddlery]

4 hours ago, cowboycolonel said:

Hannah,

 

I build for cowboys - not normally arena riders.  The leathers that I build are normally 11/13 oz leather, and There has never been a problem with them.  In Fact, if you are going to use Superior (Kreger) QC buckles (as opposed to Blevins) you will find that the medium size fits 11/13 while the larger ones with longer shanks are required to fit thicker leather. Not to discount Sioux' advice, but remember that her work centers around big urn horses,  Daily cowboy work, including brandings of over 500 calves per day, every other day, for four months at a time will arrest to not having to go to the heavier leathers.  ...and if you're just going to be trail riding or riding for leisure, do yourself a favor and stay lighter.  See what Keith Seidel has to say on the matter.

 

In addition to trimming your finger nails, watch out for the buttons on your cuffs.  They leave impressions that will be hard to hide without tooling.

Also, go to your local Ace hardware store and buy a flexible ruler - 24 inch will work nicely.  It really helps in marking centers.

I'm not sure what big urn horses are?

[HannahT]

I really appreciate the advice I've gotten from all of you. It shows through that you're well accustomed to horses and riding and leather, and your experience and knowledge are exactly what I needed to help me understand what my saddle will have to be able to do for me. I look forward to posting progress pictures as I build.

[cowboycolonel]

Hannah,

I caution you to pay particular attention to how you build the seat cover.  If you cut out what you think it should look like, I will almost guarantee you that you will have cut away too much leather at the bottom of the swell.  Use a very sharp knife and cut away tiny portions until you have the fit you want.  Take all the time you need, as this is a very large piece of expensive leather and you don't want to ruin it.

I'm looking forawrd to progress photos and questions.

[HannahT]

I'm going to be super careful with the seat--I watched Bruce Cheaney's video and it helped me see some of how to make sure I don't cut out too much.

Where do you guys get your Hermann Oak? I see that Montana Leather sells #1 11/13 oz for $225, which is cheaper than some of the other distributors. Hide House is about the same. Part of the reason I'd wanted to go with Wickett & Craig is because I could buy straight from them and avoid the mark-up (and I can't afford HO's minimum orders). And they're great to work with.

Edited November 1, 2016 by HannahT

[Big Sioux Saddlery]

1 hour ago, HannahT said:

I'm going to be super careful with the seat--I watched Bruce Cheaney's video and it helped me see some of how to make sure I don't cut out too much.

Where do you guys get your Hermann Oak? I see that Montana Leather sells #1 11/13 oz for $225, which is cheaper than some of the other distributors. Hide House is about the same. Part of the reason I'd wanted to go with Wickett & Craig is because I could buy straight from them and avoid the mark-up (and I can't afford HO's minimum orders). And they're great to work with.

As much as everyone hates Weaver these days, I gotta confess, I buy a lot from them. If I have enough of one kind of leather to order at one time I'll order direct from HO. I've never tried any of the other distributors.  I use so many different kinds of leather, and if I get my order over a grand at Weaver, everything gets a whole lot cheaper.  Quality can vary widely from them though, as they buy TR.  Last order I was on the fence over some russet harness.  Weaver could ship immediately and HO was going to be a little bit of a wait. I ended up ordering from Weaver because I was going to come out around $100 ahead with the all the other stuff I needed. The leather left a lot to be desired.  If I had been cutting reins I would have been in trouble, but as it were, I could cut around the defects because nothing needed to be over 32", and most no more than 22".  Montana Leather's price of $225 doesn't sound too bad.  I've never ordered from them but heard nothing bad neither.

[Squilchuck]

Both of my saddles were made from HO bought from Montana Leather.  They have the best price I have found for #1 grade. if you can get #1 grade for that price why gamble on TR selection.  I buy most other leather from Hide House - great selection, service, and fast shipping to WA.  I've bought from Weaver too but prices for small quantities and shipping to WA have been higher than H House.

[oltoot]

Let me add a little consternation. I would forget about all the template, etc stuff and remember that if you get too specific to a particular horse, that horse will probably only be in service for another 6-10 years and a good saddle, well cared for, should last 30 or more so ask Sonny Felkins or somebody as well informed to fit the type of horses you will be riding over time and invest in a good pad if it doesn't fit a particular horse perfectly. Saddle fitting beyond getting the appropriate gullet width and bar configuration is a big waste of time and energy, IMHO. Thankfully, horses are remarkably uniform in their conformation in the area where saddles sit. And learn to skive cause you can always take a little off but it's purt near impossible to add it on. And you pretty much get what you pay for when it comes to leather and most other important things. So don't plan on this turning out cheap cause it wont. You will, of course, use cheap labor so it will all come out in the wash and plain is plain and not much can be said for it. Add whatever level of decoration you can do and please yourself. Life's too short to dance with ugly women or fellas. Only initials or monograms will affect the resale.  

[HannahT]

Oltoot, I've been reading a lot from all the saddle makers on here and totally agree with you now about fit. I have a couple horses and don't ride too many others, but I switch out every now and then and I'd like to have something that'll work for just about anything I get. I almost always ride the same kind horse, so it's not like I'll have to fit a Clydesdale, an Arab, and a TB or something. I may try some border stamping. 

I like Weaver for some hardware and things like that, but I sure don't want to take a chance on TR. I got some low grade HO once that wasn't good for ANYTHING. I'm looking pretty seriously at Montana Leather, if I go with HO.

[rdl123]

Hello Hannah,

It looks to me like you've been given excellent advice.

If you haven't already purchased a tree I would like to second Oltoots advice - Call Sonny Felkins.  My last saddle was built on one of his and it is very square and very true.  Also, after lots of riding and brandings this season I can say that it fits all of our quarter horses very well.

I have limited experience having only built two rigs so far:  However, my advice based on this limited experience is:

1) Use the best tree you can afford

2) Use the best leather you can afford.  I like Hermann Oak - (I have successfully bough some of my HO from Montana Leather too)

3) Use all stainless steel or brass hardware. Nothing nickel plated.

4) take your time - If you get in a jamb better to stand back and analyse till you see your way clear

I found the DVD's invaluable - I bought both Jeremiah Watts & Dale Harwoods.  I think they are well worth it.  If the tips they provide saves you wrecking one side of leather they pretty much pay for themselves!

I think Steve Brewers all leather ground seat tutorial (pinned at start of saddle construction forum)  is a good place to start for building ground seats.  I used his techniques on first two saddles and have no complaints.

Some of the best advice I have seen is "make it look handmade, not home made"!

This info may or may not help you too:  My first saddle gallery, My second saddle gallery, my first saddle forum.

Good Luck & Happy Building,

Ron L

 

 

[HannahT]

Yes, rdl123, all the advice everyone on here has given me has been great. I can hardly believe my luck, finding so many people who have had experience with leather and are willing to share what they know. Some people are kind of close-mouthed about how they do things, and I've run into lots of horse people who treated me like an idiot because I asked them something. From the looks of yours, it seems like we kind of have the same taste in saddles. I'm looking at the Ray Hunt wade tree--I don't really rope much, but there's something I like about the shape of it. I still haven't ordered my tree--I've changed what I wanted a few times, based on what I've learned about what I'll have to do to build on the different styles--but I've pretty well settled on a wade and I'll probably go with Sonny Felkins.