First project: Stick Barrettes, advice needed please.

[JenGranger]

Hi,  I have been practicing with the swivel knife and stamps for a few weeks now. My first projects were going to be checkbook covers but decided they would be a little too advanced for me at this time and the stick barrettes are needed more anyways.

The barrettes will be about 2-1/2" to 3", by about 5-1/5" long.  They will be dyed black.  I will use a dowel rod for the sicks, I will dye those black too. I bought 4oz of Feibings black pro oil dye and from what I understand, this doesn't bleed as bad as the others.  Do you think 4oz will be enough to do both? 

I bought a piece of 6-7oz 8.5"X11" veg tan from Springfield Leather. This should be enough to make both barrettes, but not leaving much scrap for testing

I bought a set of  hole punches for the stick holes.

I was going to burnish the edges and the flesh side.  I ordered tools for that.  I was thinking that burnishing the flesh side might help  make it a little more moisture resistant.  I'm concerned about making the barrettes moisture resistant because our hair might be damp when we put it up.  Any suggestions on what we can put on the flesh side to protect it from the moisture in our hair? I'm ok with having to reapply something every so often.

on the grain side, I will tool them and plan to use Mop n' Glo mixed 50/50 with water to seal them.  I read about it on here.  I already had it on hand and don't have much money to work with. Does it crackle really bad?  The barrettes will be pretty flexible, so I'm concerned about that.  I was thinking I should apply the Mop n' Glo, then put the dowel rod through the holes and let it dry in that position. Does that make sence?

the barrettes are going to be oval shaped.  To cut it out, I plan to use the  28 year old swivel knife I inherited (I have a brand new one for the good stuff)  It has been sharpened and I have stropped the h**l out of it.  It will cut through tough, roughly 8-10oz cased veg tan in a few passes with a little elbow grease.  I know there are other knives I should be using, but I'm very clumsy and feel less likely to cut myself or ruin my project this way.  I know I can't do it this way for long, but I will learn the right way in time.

Is there anything y'all think I should know? Constructive criticism, suggestions, ideas and insight are very welcome.  I'm very sorry I have so many questions. I have no idea what I'm doing, I have no one to learn from.  The person a inherited the swivel knife and stamps from got them as a gift and knew nothing about leather work. I know absolutely no one that has worked with veg tan leather. I don't even have access to leather working books through our library because of personal reasons.  All I really have is the Internet, just this website really.  I have learned a lot here the last two weeks already. 

Please don't suggest any wool products, I'm allergic. Except the wool daubers should ok since they won't come in contact with my skin.  

Any responses are greatly appreciated. Thank you for taking the time to read this novel lol.

[JenGranger]

I have also read a lot about vinegaroon on here and feel confident that I can brew up a batch and thought I'd try it before I tried the dye I bought, on scrapes first, of corse.

Edited November 29, 2016 by JenGranger

[Northmount]

4 oz covers a lot of area.  Should be plenty if putting it on with a dauber.

Tom

[JenGranger]

Thank you!

[rejerome]

Hi Jen,

Kevin over at Springfield Leather Co has a video on using black dye.  You should check it out.  

You can probably just treat the leather with olive oil and call it good in regards to the moisture protection.  Just a couple light coats.

As far as cutting out the pieces, you can cut heavy leather with shears pretty easily if a knife worries you.  I'm left-handed and use a set of Mundial shears (only leftys I could find) that I purchased on http://www.chefdepot.net/scissors.htm  They work great and the prices on that site are very reasonable.

I'm just up the road from ya.  Feel free to send me a PM if you want.  Glad to help.

Rex

[JenGranger]

Thanks! I'm a lefty too!  I'm very excited for my supplies to come in.  I cook with olive oil, so one less thing to buy :D

[JenGranger]

I have one less worry with this project now.  The piece of leather I ordered from Springfield was such a pretty color and really vein-y, that Mom liked it so much that she doesn't want her barrette dyed black, she wants it to have the natural look.  So I don't have to worry about the black dye bleeding onto her brown hair. I don't have to worry about it bleeding on my hair either since my hair is already black lol.

[TinkerTailor]

On 11/29/2016 at 9:15 AM, JenGranger said:

Thanks! I'm a lefty too!  I'm very excited for my supplies to come in.  I cook with olive oil, so one less thing to buy :D

 Two comments,

Olive oil will work but can go rancid over time inside the leather. On a warm wet head, this may happen faster.  One big reason neetsfoot oil is used for leather is it does not go rancid. Oil is not really a finish. It does not waterproof or protect as much as it nourishes the leather to keep it flexible. Using some kind of oil or creme would be a good idea alongside finish with this project because sweat  salts and oils from the hair may dry out the natural oils in the leather. Dyeing also does this. The oil or creme replenishes it. I like to use carnauba creme myself, or neetsfoot depending on my mood and the project. Undyed natural leathers i skip the neetsfoot and use carnauba only to prevent the darkening effect. For finish, snoseal will work nice and is beeswax based. If you don't overapply it will waterproof but wont get sticky. If you buy it and don't like it as a leather finish when you test on some scrap, go use the can on every pair of leather boots you got. Nothing wasted..

As to the dye, If you use fiebings spirit dyes, and buff it well after, you should have no problems with dyes transferring. Except the usmc black. It seems to rub off forever. Leave it there and get the regular black, it does not  really rub off at all.  Spirit(alcohol) based dyes don't generally run or bleed, however they may transfer dye particles left over on the surface. This is why you buff off the excess. Its harder to buff the excess out of the back, so if you can skip it it may be better. I use old t-shirts and sheets to buff. I have not been impressed with many of the water based products i have tried however others have had good success.  Fiebings pro and regular spirit dyes have always worked good for me so i am going to stick to them for now. Except the usmc black....grrrr....I have a belt that i made years ago and still i can only wear with black jeans.....

 

[JenGranger]

Thanks.  I've done a lot of reading on the forum the last few weeks and knew the water based dyes  (Eco Flo and such) would not work for these projects.  I do know that no matter what dye and finish I use, putting our hair up when it's soaking wet will be a terrible idea. I was wonder if I should use something like Sno-Seal on the back of the barrettes?  I don't know much about it, just seen it mentioned in the forum and from what I understand, it's pretty water resistant.  Mom used to used mink oil on her leather jacket back in the day and she said she believed it was pretty water resistant, but I've seen I referred to as "stink oil".  

To apply bee's wax to the back, would I melt it fist? With a hair dryer maybe?  I use bee's wax in my Native American beadwork and I am familiar with its stickiness and the fact that it is a dirt magnet.  I wonder if melting it down with some paraffin wax would lessen those problems?  For the leather and the beadwork?

[rejerome]

Additional discussion on olive oil here. 

http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,31724.0.html

As stated in the thread link above, everyone has their own experiences and beliefs on what works. Jen, you'll have to reach your own conclusions. I mentioned olive oil as most folks have it on hand for cooking and would therefore save a beginner a little money over purchasing a "dedicated" leather oil. 

Maybe it does go "rancid inside the leather". I've had no issues. It's a fact that many saddle makers use olive oil.  Two quickly come to mind that have YouTube content you could look at; Bruce Cheaney and Don Gonzales. Don actually has one video dedicated to olive oil  

Regards,

Rex

[JenGranger]

I imaging if used sparingly, and not totally sealed in, where it can still breath, it would be ok.

[TinkerTailor]

49 minutes ago, rejerome said:

Additional discussion on olive oil here. 

http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,31724.0.html

As stated in the thread link above, everyone has their own experiences and beliefs on what works. Jen, you'll have to reach your own conclusions. I mentioned olive oil as most folks have it on hand for cooking and would therefore save a beginner a little money over purchasing a "dedicated" leather oil. 

Maybe it does go "rancid inside the leather". I've had no issues. It's a fact that many saddle makers use olive oil.  Two quickly come to mind that have YouTube content you could look at; Bruce Cheaney and Don Gonzales. Don actually has one video dedicated to olive oil  

Regards,

Rex

Technical stuff ahead warning:

It may be true that olive oil has been used by some in the past and saddlers today use it with success, It is not the ideal oil in many situations. Don't get me wrong, I have used it myself at times. I looked into this topic pretty thoroughly a while back because, like you, when I read anything about oiling leather online it all seemed like he said she said and nobody knew why. I decided to go to the best source we have left, the textbooks and manuals from back in the day when there were thousands of saddlers, not dozens. People spent great deals of time and money back then to find out the answers to these types of questions because they made a big difference to industry when horses and leather were king.

  I have a huge library of leatherworking/saddle making/tanning/ treatment/bookbinding/cobbler textbooks and manuals dating from the early 1800's to the 1950s (100+pdfs). Both western and english sources. Lots of info was in "The Journal of the American Leather Chemists Association vols 1-16, 1906-1922". I'd upload it but its 240mb of pdfs.

Most texts list rancidity as a downside of any vegetable based oil. Many mention that olive oil may be used and is one of the best of the easily obtained vegetable oils, but none that i know of list it as the ideal oil if you have a choice. Oxidation is the enemy of vegetable based oils. Neetsfoot basically never oxidizes, that is one of the reasons it is used for leather. When vegetable oils break down and go rancid they form acidic compounds and some terepenes you can smell. It is when oxygen reaches the oil that it goes rancid. Depending on conditions like humidity there may not be much of a smell noticeable. The smell is not the harmful part, it is the acidic compounds that are bad. It was suspected that these acidic compounds in the leather may accelerate dry rot. Essentially, dried out leather that had previously been treated with olive would dry rot more/faster than leather previously treated with neetsfoot, some thought.   A least one early book has a recipe that supposedly stabilizes the olive oil to help prevent this. However, if i remember correctly, this recipe seemed dodgy chemistry/alchemy wise (which is common in the early texts) and it may not even work.

Repeated wetting and drying as well as flexing opens and closes the pores of the leather allowing in fresh oxygen and moving the oils around, which speeds oxidation. This wet/dry cycle was why I recommended neetsfoot or another non-vegetable based oil more resistant to oxidation. Light also speeds oxidation incidentally, olive oil is sold in a dark bottle for this reason. If you do use olive oil, one key is to get the most extra specially virgin cold pressed, freshest clearest oil possible and keep it sealed and out of the light. Go to your nearest italian market/little italy district to get the good stuff. Considering the price of leather and time, it is cheap. If it is dusty and sitting in a sunny window in a chinese market, leave it there

Many texts list almond and rose oil as well as compounds extracted from whales as options, though the downside to these is cost, and/or you have to kill whales.

[JenGranger]

Very interesting.  I enjoy learning new things.