Tap-offs

[numbrow]

As I was reading through the various posts the other night, I saw mention of tap off's. I have never heard the term before. What exactly is a tap off and what is it used for?

[Blake]

What exactly is a tap off and what is it used for?

A tap off is a master of the flower, leaf etc that you are using for your tooling pattern.It is usually cut out of leather, coated with a varnish or other hard protective coating. It then can be used to lay out the tooling pattern to whatever space is available. Saddle Makers use them a lot as it can get pretty tedious constantly tracing the same flower and leaf over again, especially on all of the different parts and shapes of a saddle.

The book on Sheridan carving goes into good detail about making them.

Once made, you simply place it face down on the cased leather in the desired posistion and tap it with a small hammer and the result is a mirror image of the flower. Some flowers and leaves require a left and right.You then free hand in the Dogs, stumps, etc between the flowers.

I think this would make a fun online clinic if anyone is interested.

I have made tap offs of whole corner patterns and book covers etc when I know I will be doing a lot of the same pattern.

They last forever and are almost free and the designs are endless. If you are trying to make money with tooled leather items, they are a must in my opinion.

I can TRY and post pictures if you have questions.

Kind Regards

Blake

[numbrow]

Thank you for the info Blake. Went and checked and I found a can of urethane varnish. Just so I understand the process correctly. I first tool a complete mirror image of the pattern, let dry. Then I figure cut roughly to shape and apply the varnish. Let that cure. Case my project, place the tap off in place, a couple of hits with mallet. Then carve as normal. Your idea of a clinic sounds like a great idea. If you could post a picture of one, so I know what to shoot for that would be greatly appreciated. Well, I have to go give this a try now. Thanks again Blake.

[ClayB]

You dont want to tool the pattern, just cut it deeply with the swivel knife. Then you cut the shape out, flower, leaf, etc. When you use the tap off, it will give you an impression on the leather sort of like a craftaid does, but the cut lines will become raised, not depressed. I haven't used a tap off, but that's the basic idea shown in the Sheridan Carving book.

[Blake]

Your idea of a clinic sounds like a great idea. If you could post a picture of one, so I know what to shoot for that would be greatly appreciated. Well, I have to go give this a try now. Thanks again Blake.

Lets see if I can do this right so the pictures aren't too big. they should be in JPG.

Blake

[SmilinJim]

Hi Folks

I did something sorta similar. My wife works with crafts and I cut a small pattern, didn't tool, and let it dry. Then I used a thin sheet of polymer clay on top, let it dry then removed from the leather. Baked it as the instructions say. Then I added a thick leather backing to it. You then have something similar to a craftaid in that you do get impressions into the cased leather. Works great for small projects. Haven't tried it on larger ones yet.

Hope this helps a little.

SmilinJim

[joet]

I wonder if the liquid plastic that was popular a few years ago could be used. They were used to make every thing from paper weights to name plates. I even saw where someone had placed a snake head inside of one and called it a peice of art. Let it harden and it is almost indistructable. -_-

[SmilinJim]

Hi

We did the casting resin thing too. Sticks to everything, forever, unless its a polyurethane. I cast some coins and name tags in several blocks for the kids when they were born and we did a table top. But what the .. try it. You may make it work. There are several other types on the market these days, maybe one of them would work. I saw one called alumalite. Might be a way there. Keep us posted if you try.

SmilinJim

[Blake]

Hi Jim

That is pretty interesting. You might even start a cottage industry if you could produce them in quantity. Have you seen the prices that Gore Tool gets for there aluminum taps? How large do you think you could go without it becoming unstable? I would imagine that the leather backing would help with that.

I did some masters , Fully Tooled a few years back for a company that used them to cast or mould lamp bases out of plastic. after they were finished you couldn't tell it from the real thing unless you probed it. You could even see every flaw in the grain. Made me nervous and insecure about the future of leather work in general.

Where in Alabama are you located?I'm an old "WAR EAGLE"

Blake

[SmilinJim]

Hi Blake

I'm from west of Birmingham. However, "Roll Tide", but been working in Auburn lately, construction. I don't know how large of a template can be made, guess its time to experiment. I'll get out the ones I've done and post some pics. Most are sort of simple but you could make as complex as you wanted. I've been wanting to try something with the alumilite and this may be the way. I've used the polymer clay to mold holders and such for my mp3 player for my car and for my daughters Ipod. It's just easy to work with but I think it would be too unstable for a large piece.

Jim

[bruce johnson]

I have used several tap offs for quite a few years. Have also followed this thread regarding making your own out of other materials, and references to the Gore tool ones. A few considerations. The Gore tool referred to are not tapoffs, they are cutting plates. Tapoffs leave a line to cut with the swivel knife. The cutting plates actully cut the line, much like a cookie cutter. The lines are raised to a depth that allows the outline to cut onto the leather. Tapoffs are recessed and leave a raised line to cut,actually they depress the leather around the line.

I have had cutting plates from Gore, traded them off a few years ago. I currently have a lot of plates from Richard Fletcher. He casts them, and has several "stock" flowers, leaves, and a few silhouettes. He has done some custom ones for me out of laser engraved Delrin. The plates from Richard do not have handles. They are designed to be used with a press or tapped with a mallet. The plates with handles tend to break at the joint of handle and plate if the plate is very large. Besides, Richard, Jeff Mosby in SC makes plates also, although I believe only Delrin at this stage, no casting.

Bruce Johnson

[bruce johnson]

I forgot about one other maker of cutting plates in my previous post. Harper Manufacturing in Las Vegas, NV has some listed on their website. I have not used their's nor no of anyone who has. Several have their maker stamps and are very happy. \

On a sad note, I have just heard from two different sources that Mitch Botts passed away. He was one of, or the, principal behind Gore Tools along with Jay Lynn Gore. I mentioned them in the previous post.

Bruce Johnson

[Blake]

Hello Bruce

Thank you for the clarification on the taps and cutters. A poor choice of descriptive words on my part and exposure of my limited knowledge about some of the methods.

I have been curious about the laser engraved Delrin masters so if you would like to elaborate a little on your experiances I am sure it would be appreciated by all. What is the approx. cost per item?Its always good when you can get first hand opinions. Can you post a picture and an impression of one?

I have always made my tap offs from leather mainly because they were quick and convienant and The other big reason for me is that I could make them to work with specific tools that I already have which in turn shortened the tooling time on gear that I was making. When you do it for a living, That has to be taken into consideration. I have leather tapoffs that were made many years ago and used hard . They still have life in them so I can't complain about the investment .Heck, I even have some given to me by Bob Dellis just before he passed away that he tried to use up over the years.

That is indeed sad news about Mitch Botts. If I remember correctly, He was Jay Lynns Brother in Law and the machinest behind the company . Mitch will be missed by the community and I hope his passing will not

change the company as they are one of the best out there. Good solid industrial srength tools.

Kind Regards

Blake

[bruce johnson]

Blake,

Pictures of some of Richard Fletcher's plates and the impressions can be seen on his website (www.leathertool.com). His pictures are probably better than I can do. I bought several plates off ebay when he was running specials to raise money for new equipment. I have bought some directly from him, and bought about 20 or so at the Sheridan show. He has them is several sizes from belt flowers and leaves up to 3inch or so. The custom Delrin flower I had him do ran me about $80, I think. The others were in sets from $10-20 per plate on the specials. The big plus for these plates is the speed and consistancy. I did an emergency oak and acorn belt for my son in less than an hour stamping time total. Stamped in the leaves and acorns, cut in the stems, and tooled and backgrounded. The Delrin plates work better for me in the press (a shop press), The cast plates I use a maul held vertically on the plate (head side down the spread the blow), and hit the handle end with another maul.

I also have a pretty good selection of tapoffs, and they have their place too. I am working up patterns that incorporate the cutting plates and stem work into a tapoff for corners, crosses, and the like. Hope this helps.

Bruce Johnson

[The Major]

You can also use the plastic used in making diorammas for simulating water, but you will need to use a mold release agent.

I have also been using fibreglass inforced bondo to make tap offs as well as stamps.

[Little John]

Looking for the thin plastic sheeting that is used to make craftaids. Any idea where I might buy some.

lj

[Blake]

Looking for the thin plastic sheeting that is used to make craftaids. Any idea where I might buy some.

lj

Hello L J

That mat'l has changed several times over the years. Some of the early templates became brittle with age. I don't know how much you need but any plastics company (JOBBER) should carry something similiar. I would check your yellow pages.. I have bought small sheets in small quantity from Hobby Lobby for various applications. Maybe someone on the list with more knowledge about plastics can tell us the exact pedigree.

Blake

[CitizenKate]

I have also been using fibreglass inforced bondo to make tap offs as well as stamps.

Shawn, can you share some of the fine points of fabricating a tap-off or stamp with bondo? I tried this, but the results I got were somewhat promising, but in the end not very useable. The biggest problem I had was creating the mold to pour the bondo into.

Edited September 16, 2006 by CitizenKate

[The Major]

Shawn, can you share some of the fine points of fabricating a tap-off or stamp with bondo? I tried this, but the results I got were somewhat promising, but in the end not very useable. The biggest problem I had was creating the mold to pour the bondo into.

Well, for tap-offs you really dont need a deep mold. For those I use a piece of 10/12oz to make the mold cavity around the design. For tap-offs I dont use bondo, I use that acrylic plastic resin train modelers use for water, either the pre-liquid stuff or the stuff you melt is fine. If you want to use bondo double the thickness.

For stamps. use the bondo. the rule I use is for 1 to 1 1/2" square stamps, your mold cavity needs to be a minimum of 3/8" thick. Bigger than that, I would increas it about 1/8" for every 1/2" larger your stamp gets.

For molds I use mold cavities I machined , but you can also use vulcanizing molds that jewelers use for casting. You can also use wood, or leather. It really doesnt matter.

As for the base design goes, your cuts need to be fairly deep. But also somewhat wide, so the bondo can penetrate in the cuts and details.

And just dont forget to carve it backward.

I will try to get some pics posted this week on how to do it. I am also trying to get a sheet made up on lace making. But I am still waiting for them to switch over to the 36 hour day so I can have more time. LOL

Let me know if I can answer anymore questions if I didnt get specific enough.

Edited September 16, 2006 by The Major

[Bennyg11]

I know this is a very old post but I am trying to find out if anyone makes tape off to order. I dont feel I could make one that would do the pattern I need justice.