Fire Helmet Shield

[lomfs24]

I am pretty new to this whole game but I am learning quickly. This leather shield was put together with two pieces of about 9oz leather. Looks as simple as it is. But I am looking for some honest critique. I realize it's not the best but I made it for my sons helmet and he loves it because Dad made it. 

Couple questions. 

1) It has been dyed with Eco-Flo smoke dye. It didn't turn out as dark as I wanted it to. Can I re-dye it using black. I have not used a finish on it yet. 

2) What type of finish would I use on it to give it kind of a satin sheen to it. I don't want it matte, but I don't want it shiny either. Kinda a semi-gloss or satin look to it. 

 

[Chief Filipino]

I like the design! I think you should be able to redye it with black, though in my opinion that would drown out your details. Maybe you could do some antiquing? Or apply a second coat of the Eco Flo smoke and that should darken it some more. To me (though I'm far from professional/expert) your tooling doesn't look too bad. I would say the biggest thing would be consistency of depth (something I'm working on too). The bottom middle right of your triskelion is an example of inconsistency. 

Your letters are lined up fairly well though I'm having trouble trying to figure out the look you are going for. They aren't centered, and I personally feel like they should be, but maybe that isn't the look you were going for? 

Overall I like the design and symbolism. What did you use for your blue-ish and red? 

[Mark842]

I agree with Chief on the dye. I'm a big fan of not killing my tooling detail by using a black dye. You can use more coats of what you have already used or like Chief said, try an antique. It will highlight the depth in the tooling an lettering while still darkening the rest a little.

 As far as a critique...You have the basic concept and this is a more than fair start. It basically just comes down to practice of technique. Your beveling is a bit rough and I'm not sure what the original art of the Celtic shield looks like but the inner backgrounding looks inconsistent to me as the top 4 and bottom right inner sections have been back grounded differently.

As for the lettering, i absolutely hate the standard leather industry letter sets out there. They have been manufacturing them for 60+ years and still can't make a set of letters that all match up square if you line them up in a jig. this makes a perfect lined up lettering job all but impossible using them. That leaves hand tooling the letters, daunting at first but not that bad, or when the budget allows, purchase old foundry letterpress type. I've been collecting sets for 20+ years and they work fantastic for lettering on leather with thousands of sizes and fonts available.

[lomfs24]

9 hours ago, Chief Filipino said:

I like the design! I think you should be able to redye it with black, though in my opinion that would drown out your details. Maybe you could do some antiquing? Or apply a second coat of the Eco Flo smoke and that should darken it some more. To me (though I'm far from professional/expert) your tooling doesn't look too bad. I would say the biggest thing would be consistency of depth (something I'm working on too). The bottom middle right of your triskelion is an example of inconsistency. 

Your letters are lined up fairly well though I'm having trouble trying to figure out the look you are going for. They aren't centered, and I personally feel like they should be, but maybe that isn't the look you were going for? 

Overall I like the design and symbolism. What did you use for your blue-ish and red? 

Thank you for your reply. I understand what you are saying when you say that it would drown out the details. I could try a second coat of Smoke. I know that my tooling isn't that consistent and that is something I am working on. There is a company out of Kansas City called Red House Leather. He has a series called the DarkcKnight. They are a series of solid black shields. They look awesome in pictures online. I have not seen one personally. That was the look I was shooting for on this shield. 

As far as lettering, The top four could have been moved to the left a little and the name on the bottom didn't land exactly where I wanted it to. I am struggling with getting things to line up the way I want. It seems when you lay out two pieces of leather and tool one and line it back up things have moved. LOL. But It's getting better. 

I see what you are talking about as far as tooling consistency. You see the results, here's what I wanted. I wanted to have the checkered beveling around the inside of the lines with a smooth bevel on the outside. When I got to the smaller sections of the inside they ended up all back-grounded while the larger sections were not. You are right though, I think that back-grounding them all would make a more consistent look. I may go back and retool those sections. 

The blue and red are acrylic paint. The black four at the top was just the way the stamp took the dye. 

Which brings me to my next question. Color. What type of paints do you guys use. And do you seal paints and what with to keep them from flaking off and getting washed off. Since this is a fire helmet shield it will encounter some water in the course of it's life. 

[lomfs24]

2 hours ago, Mark842 said:

I agree with Chief on the dye. I'm a big fan of not killing my tooling detail by using a black dye. You can use more coats of what you have already used or like Chief said, try an antique. It will highlight the depth in the tooling an lettering while still darkening the rest a little.

 As far as a critique...You have the basic concept and this is a more than fair start. It basically just comes down to practice of technique. Your beveling is a bit rough and I'm not sure what the original art of the Celtic shield looks like but the inner backgrounding looks inconsistent to me as the top 4 and bottom right inner sections have been back grounded differently.

As for the lettering, i absolutely hate the standard leather industry letter sets out there. They have been manufacturing them for 60+ years and still can't make a set of letters that all match up square if you line them up in a jig. this makes a perfect lined up lettering job all but impossible using them. That leaves hand tooling the letters, daunting at first but not that bad, or when the budget allows, purchase old foundry letterpress type. I've been collecting sets for 20+ years and they work fantastic for lettering on leather with thousands of sizes and fonts available.

I will try playing around with antique that sounds like it would make an interesting piece. I will also look into a foundry letterpress. I am not sure even where to start looking for something like that. I am interested in hand tooling letters. It seems that the options there would be infinite. Is there a place I can go and read, watch video etc... on hand tooling letters. It seems difficult but I am willing to give it a shot. 

As far as the original design of the triquatra. Well, all I had to work with was a line outline of the design. That meant that the tooling and back-grounding was all up to what ever I wanted. That means the flaws are all mine. :-)

 

Edited June 6, 2017 by lomfs24
Additional information.

[lomfs24]

Again, thanks for the replies. 

I know that my leather work is not where I want it to be. I appreciate honest critique. That's how I learn.

I think what aggravates me the most is when I know there are flaws and faults that I am working on and people try to patronize you by telling you it's as good as what you were shooting for. 

Thanks again.  

[JerseyFirefighter]

I like how it came out. Red House Shields work is top notch so he's a good resource for seeing how he stamps and tools them. I've only made one shield as a tester as carving isnt really for me (yet). I actually sell shield blanks to other shield makers and yet I cant find the time to commit to giving it a better go. 

 

I personally am a fan of the black on black look for shields. Nice and clean looking. 

[lomfs24]

4 hours ago, JerseyFirefighter said:

I like how it came out. Red House Shields work is top notch so he's a good resource for seeing how he stamps and tools them. I've only made one shield as a tester as carving isnt really for me (yet). I actually sell shield blanks to other shield makers and yet I cant find the time to commit to giving it a better go. 

 

I personally am a fan of the black on black look for shields. Nice and clean looking. 

If you sell shield blanks I might hit you up some time. One of my other challenges is cutting out two pieces of leather that match. I am not into it so far as to have a custom die cutter made yet. But I might get there. 

[JerseyFirefighter]

1 hour ago, lomfs24 said:

If you sell shield blanks I might hit you up some time. One of my other challenges is cutting out two pieces of leather that match. I am not into it so far as to have a custom die cutter made yet. But I might get there. 

That's exactly why I never really got into it and the ultimate reason why I purchased the dies. Strap work keeps me busy enough. I probably should tinker more with them since I have about 100 sitting in a box in the shop. I also have some heavily discounted ones I sell that have blemishes for practice along with orders. 

 

I would never sell them personally. While they fit into the business model, the time spent designing can sometimes be as much time as actually carving them out. 

[Mark842]

8 hours ago, lomfs24 said:

I will also look into a foundry letterpress. I am not sure even where to start looking for something like that.

 

 

I've purchased most of my type off ebay although I have established relationships with some of the sellers that sell direct to me since they know what I like. As you can see on the link below there are thousands of options. Just make sure you understand the sizing on it as a lot of it is very small.

 

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=leather+bag+tags&_osacat=164800&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR10.TRC1.A0.H0.Xletterpress+type.TRS0&_nkw=letterpress+type&_sacat=164800

[lomfs24]

36 minutes ago, Mark842 said:

I've purchased most of my type off ebay although I have established relationships with some of the sellers that sell direct to me since they know what I like. As you can see on the link below there are thousands of options. Just make sure you understand the sizing on it as a lot of it is very small.

 

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=leather+bag+tags&_osacat=164800&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR10.TRC1.A0.H0.Xletterpress+type.TRS0&_nkw=letterpress+type&_sacat=164800

So with these letter press letters do you press them with a press like an arbor press into the leather or do you hammer them like a regular letter set? I can see where the letters come right up the edge of the type so lining them up would be much easier. 

[Mark842]

17 hours ago, lomfs24 said:

So with these letter press letters do you press them with a press like an arbor press into the leather or do you hammer them like a regular letter set? I can see where the letters come right up the edge of the type so lining them up would be much easier. 

I've used both methods depending on the size and amount of letters being used. Just doing a set of initials 1/4 to 3/8" high I will just put a piece of electrical tape around them and use a hammer. For larger words/letters I have an adjustable jig I've built that I arrange the letters in and use in a press.

[Chief Filipino]

On 6/6/2017 at 8:29 AM, lomfs24 said:

Thank you for your reply. I understand what you are saying when you say that it would drown out the details. I could try a second coat of Smoke. I know that my tooling isn't that consistent and that is something I am working on. There is a company out of Kansas City called Red House Leather. He has a series called the DarkcKnight. They are a series of solid black shields. They look awesome in pictures online. I have not seen one personally. That was the look I was shooting for on this shield. 

As far as lettering, The top four could have been moved to the left a little and the name on the bottom didn't land exactly where I wanted it to. I am struggling with getting things to line up the way I want. It seems when you lay out two pieces of leather and tool one and line it back up things have moved. LOL. But It's getting better. 

I see what you are talking about as far as tooling consistency. You see the results, here's what I wanted. I wanted to have the checkered beveling around the inside of the lines with a smooth bevel on the outside. When I got to the smaller sections of the inside they ended up all back-grounded while the larger sections were not. You are right though, I think that back-grounding them all would make a more consistent look. I may go back and retool those sections. 

The blue and red are acrylic paint. The black four at the top was just the way the stamp took the dye. 

Which brings me to my next question. Color. What type of paints do you guys use. And do you seal paints and what with to keep them from flaking off and getting washed off. Since this is a fire helmet shield it will encounter some water in the course of it's life. 

I mainly use dyes. I've made a few things with acrylic paint, not the leather type of acrylic but just regular acrylic paint. A few of them came out nicely, but for some reason the white paint cracked. Which from what I hear is a common issue. I use acrylic resolene to seal it. I haven't heard back from the owner so I have no idea how well it has held up. I bought some Eco-Flo Cova-Color during a Black Friday sale but haven't played with them yet. 

 

Since this is actually going to go onto a helmet and will see all the hell that fire fighters deal with daily, I would recommend not using acrylic paint at all. In that case the total black would last longer. From what I have seen, experienced, and heard in my research is that acrylic resolene is the closest you can probably get to a "waterproof". I've also heard the same with wax/oil mixes. Maybe Red House Shields is willing to share what they use. Here's a looooooooooooooooong video but I thought he did a good job of showing the properties of each finish. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zyTg_hfpNUM 

[lomfs24]

3 minutes ago, Chief Filipino said:

I mainly use dyes. I've made a few things with acrylic paint, not the leather type of acrylic but just regular acrylic paint. A few of them came out nicely, but for some reason the white paint cracked. Which from what I hear is a common issue. I use acrylic resolene to seal it. I haven't heard back from the owner so I have no idea how well it has held up. I bought some Eco-Flo Cova-Color during a Black Friday sale but haven't played with them yet. 

 

Since this is actually going to go onto a helmet and will see all the hell that fire fighters deal with daily, I would recommend not using acrylic paint at all. In that case the total black would last longer. From what I have seen, experienced, and heard in my research is that acrylic resolene is the closest you can probably get to a "waterproof". I've also heard the same with wax/oil mixes. Maybe Red House Shields is willing to share what they use. Here's a looooooooooooooooong video but I thought he did a good job of showing the properties of each finish. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zyTg_hfpNUM 

Thank you for the reply. I used acrylic paint on a shield that I completely painted back with colored letters. I haven't had it long enough to know how it will hold up. I have done a leather hatband type belt for my helmet. It seems to be holding up pretty well but where the belt is creased over the seams of my helmet the paint seems to be cracking a little. 

I will check out that video when I get a moment. I need it terribly to choose the correct method to color based on the application. 

[Chief Filipino]

3 hours ago, lomfs24 said:

Thank you for the reply. I used acrylic paint on a shield that I completely painted back with colored letters. I haven't had it long enough to know how it will hold up. I have done a leather hatband type belt for my helmet. It seems to be holding up pretty well but where the belt is creased over the seams of my helmet the paint seems to be cracking a little. 

I will check out that video when I get a moment. I need it terribly to choose the correct method to color based on the application. 

That video was specific to finishes...... it's been awhile so I can't remember if he also talked about paints and finishes....

[lomfs24]

On 6/7/2017 at 9:14 PM, Chief Filipino said:

That video was specific to finishes...... it's been awhile so I can't remember if he also talked about paints and finishes....

You are right, the video is specific to finishes. It was extremely helpful. It does not cover paints. But that's OK, it was still extremely helpful. 

Thanks. 

 

[lomfs24]

OK, I couldn't take it. The way this shield was originally wasn't the look that I had intended it to be originally. I couldn't take it anymore. Do I redid it all in black. I wanted it more along the lines of a total blackout shield. So here's how it ended up. 

Let me know what you think, the original piece in the original post and the second one now. Tell me which one you like better. I may end up repainting the Blue and red but I'm not sure at this point. Kinda like the total blackout. 

I think it the total blackout hides the flaws a little better like the name not being perfectly centered. 

[JerseyFirefighter]

Im a fan of the blacked out look. I think you made the right choice and it does take away from any minor inconsistencies .

[Chief Filipino]

That looks amazing! I say leave it! The details didn't get drowned out like I thought they would. Love it!