Re doing my first saddle

[cowboycolonel]

Dear J,

You will need a pointed awl for anything you do.  Tandy sells Osborne awls and they will work for what you want to do.  I suggest you call Dick Anderson, number if you want through personal contact, and tell him what you're doing and he will set you up. Remember, the best awl in the world is dangerous unless you keep it sharp.  Same goes for Head knives and, well, everything else. While you're ordering from Tandy, get a small Badmitten awl.  It will come in handy. These things aren't expensive, so you can go wild and still not break the bank.

[j20]

All I'm finding on tandys website is craftool brand any good?  I have a speedy stitcher I got from there a while back with a few different needles, do these have their place or are they low end or just not used by those of you that do this on a more professional level.

[cowboycolonel]

Like most things, they have their place.  They are particularly useful when you're trying to stitch something and don't have enough clearance to be able to pull your needles all the way through the material, like the corner of a Cheyenne Roll, for example.  I have two of them (because a guy gave them to me) and haven't used them more then half-a dozen times in 20 years.  BUT, when you need them, you really need them. I have since found that you can work faster with a simple hook in an awl haft, and these come in different sizes.

[Big Sioux Saddlery]

I have a speedy stitcher I bought when I first started doing leatherwork and have used it maybe 5 times since then.  Like Colonel said, a hook in a haft works better most of the time for tight spaces.  It's difficult to get a good looking hand stitch with that thing.  Re: head knives, do yourself a favor and buy a good one right off the bat. A new Osborne will make you hate round knives for the rest of your life.  My recommendation would be to buy an older knife from Bruce Johnson, or if you are adept at sharpening things yourself, buy an older, good brand that needs to be cleaned up and sharpened (less money--usually).  W. Rose is an excellent knife, once you get it sharp.  Older C.S Osbornes, H.F. Osborne, Gomph, and there are others.  I'd actually recommend two of them, one bigger broader one for straight cuts and skiving, and a smaller one with the points swept back for pattern cutting.  If they are good, the more you use them the more you'll want to (kind of like a good horse).  If they are poor, your work will show it and you'll hate round knives.  A good draw gauge is essential for strap work, again I'd go with something from a tool collector/trader.  Most of my awl blades are, you guessed it, old.  I do have a couple Bob Douglas blades that are ok, but I still prefer the old steel.  Getting tougher to find all the time though.  I have 3 or 4 that I use the most.  One is very small and reserved for English work.  I can't even tell you the sizes; I just grab the one that I know I want for any given job.  You'll probably want a little trim knife.  The so-called "clicker knives" will work, but again, the more you spend, usually the better the knife.  A range of drive punches are needed.  I still have a cheap set of Tandy punches that I got 30 years ago.  I doubt the ones they sell now would last as long.  I like oval punches for a lot of things.  Weavers brand are ok, but taper too abruptly and I've curled the edges on a couple already, maybe after 5-10 years of use..  I bought a couple new Osborne ovals and rolled the edges on one almost right away.  A range of strap end and bag punches are all things you'll eventually want.  There really is no end to buying tools; seems like there is always one more thing you need.

[cowboycolonel]

You really don't need all that much if all you're going to do is replace the skirts, jockeys, and fenders.  You can stitch on a machine or by hand, but if you do it by hand, make sure you have a wheel to mark your stitches.  Very likely the only stitching you will have to do will be the shearling, and if that's so, a number 5 or 6 wheel will work fine.  No need to stitch aft jockeys, and the only place you'll have to stitch the fenders will be where they attach to the leathers at the top and the bottom.  I use a number 5 for all this work.  I also cut a groove for my stitches to they won't wear out from friction.  This is all going back to your original post, of course.  If the job is expanding - which they tend to do - then you'll need more tools.  If you've been repairing saddles for a while, then you probably have most of what you need.  If not, then you can pick and choose from the above posts.  The one thing I haven't seen recommended here is a skife.  They come in really handy when you're trying to make mirror copies of fenders, skirts, and jockeys.  I also use a rounded surform tool for matching pieces up.  A Number 3 edger will round things out, and I use saddle soap as a burnishing medium. 

[j20]

I think I have a good grasp of what I need leather and tool wise now.  Which brings me to tread I'm leaning towards the nylon thread from panhandle at the moment mainly because thats where my leather is coming from, but what are some suggestions on that? 

[cowboycolonel]

If you are going to be stitching by hand, you'll find nylon thread to be a MAJOR pain.  Your stitches won't stay tight and they'll constantly be slipping.  Get some good quality linen thread or some flax sinew.If you're going to do machine work, then nylon will do, but I don't use it for anything heavy - like a saddle skirt or rigging.

Edited July 5, 2017 by cowboycolonel
spelling

[j20]

So after tearing into this saddle I'm very glad I never tried riding in it.  The rigging is hanging by a thread so now thats going to get replaced as well. Its currently d ring rigged but ever since I traded my other saddle off for this one a few weeks ago I've been riding in an old big horn of mine thats in skirt rigged and forgot how nice it rode and fit.  I dont think I'm ready to tackle a in skirt project but think I can handle flat plate rigging it.  What are some of your thoughts on that?  Switching from d to flat plate?

[Big Sioux Saddlery]

Just a word to the wise. . . if your rigging was hanging by a thread, make sure to check where it was attached.  Very often I get saddles in that the rigging has torn out, or is about to, and it is due to tree breakage at the point of attachment. I've had at least a half dozen come in this way this spring.  The edge of the bar cracks or breaks where the screws and nails were put into the tree and everything lets go. This is very common, especially on the lower grade production saddles. Even a good rawhide covered tree can break at this point if whoever installed the riggings was not careful about screw and nail placement, or if the saddle was involved in a bad wreck (under a horse usually).  If possible I'd like to see pictures of this saddle that you are planning to rebuild.  Good luck!

[Ken Nelson]

Mr. Watt, in his instructional videos on building saddles,  drills all the holes he puts screws in to keep from splitting the wood.  Most trees are pine and it does split pretty easy.  I use Lewis trees, which are fiberglass covered pine and predrill  nearly all the screw holes.

These trees are kind of " you get what you pay for".   Some of those lower end production saddles have 50 or 75 dollar trees in them and they are not worth that.   They are Dangerous.   I would advise you have a good saddle maker inspect this tree before you throw good money at it. 

Saddles are a common sense not- much to them but a whole lot more complex than most people realize. Actually, they are kind of like riding a horse.  You will stop learning about building them the day you quit or die.

Just my 2 cents worth.

[oltoot]

Drywall screws don't need to be predrilled as they are the least likely to cause splitting. Predrilling the larger wood screws is a good move, especially when repairing older, wooden trees. Avoid placing either type of screw in a straight line, aligned with the grain of the wood in the tree

[j20]

Ok I'm sure it's on here somewhere but can't find it. Is it possible to upload pictures directly from my phone?

[480volt]

With an iPhone, I email pictures from the camera roll to myself, using the "medium" image size, then save them back to the camera roll. This reduces them enough to post. 

[j20]

[Big Sioux Saddlery]

Is it Ralide or hollow fiberglass?  Either one and I personally wouldn't put the amount of money into the saddle that you're talking about.  If it's hollow fiberglass, I wouldn't put a dime in it.  Those trees are absolutely unsafe from the get go.  Ralide is a little better, but it wouldn't be my choice for a working saddle.

[j20]

I'm not sure I got a little worried when I got it stripped down and saw that tree. Now I'm not sure what I'm going to do. I will probably still at least re line it the maybe just clean it up and sell it. Don't won't to put all the new leather on that I originally planned though.  Would a fiberglass covered tree look like that?

[j20]

Well upon further inspection this morning it has to be hollow fiberglass.  I'm re fleecing re doing the rigging and sending it down the road. That's ok though I gained a good bit of knowledge and am better prepared moving forward. My harry Adams book should be here soon and I have some leather and tools on the way that can now be better utilized for future repairs.

[Ken Nelson]

I would double think about putting a dime into that saddle and selling it..   A number of years ago my insurance agent told me to never send anything out the door, I was NOT POSITIVE,  about being safe to ride  His rule was,   " Last guy that had his hands on a piece of riding equipment that fails is the first guy sued"!  That old saddle would make a neat bar stool though.

[Big Sioux Saddlery]

A hollow fiberglass tree is about the most dangerous item of equine equipment in use today.  They should not be allowed to be sold in this country.  They come in my shop almost brand new with the riggings pulled out.  The screws strip out when they run them in during construction, and you can about pull the nails out with your hands.  Furthermore they don't fit our horses worth a damn.  Whenever a client brings one in, they get my unabridged opinion on them and the whole "I wouldn't put a dime into it" sermon.  Ken is right, you could be held liable if the next person to own that saddle gets hurt. Furthermore, if you want to start working on saddles for other folks, do you really want the reputation for peddling junk like that?  My advice, and take it for what it costs you, is to chalk this one up to experience.  Keep it around as a reminder and to educate folks who bring that garbage in in the future.  And, I bet next time you trade for or buy a saddle, you check the tree:-) 

The manufacturers are getting smarter and more deceptive on these hollow fiberglass trees.  About a year ago a lady brought one in. I could tell the second it came through the door exactly what it was.  I started to give her "the sermon", and lifted up the seat jockey to show her, and thought for a minute I was going to have to eat my words.  The tree appeared to be rawhide covered, complete with rawhide lacing.  Upon a little closer inspection, it was simply a strip of laced rawhide tacked onto the edge of the tree bar in an attempt to fool the casual observer.  It was so poorly installed it wouldn't even have served as reinforcement, as is common on some of the older cheap "tipped" wooden trees.  These saddles are costing between 400-600 new, and the buyers are getting screwed, because at best they are pure garbage, and at worst, downright dangerous.  I rest my case.

[j20]

Well this has turned into quite the learning experience.  I greatly appreciate all the insight you guys have provided. I know some people that buy stuff for western decoration for restaurants and bars think this might be right up their alley.

[Big Sioux Saddlery]

If they need more than you can provide, send them my way!  I have piles of stuff that people have left when I told them it wouldn't pay to fix it.

[oldtimer]

The saddle is made in Uttar Pradesh, India.

It is junk and should never be on a horse. I bought 4 of those cheap saddles ( used) just to see what was inside. My advise is to throw it in a garbage container.

Some photos:

 

https://www.facebook.com/pg/Old-Timers-sadelsida-213225115376738/photos/?tab=album&album_id=722074604491784