Wickett and Craig Quality and Returns

[RSmithLeather]

Greetings.  I am a fairly new leather worker who is specializing in belts at the moment.  I recently placed an order with Wickett and Craig and asked for the "Top of the line" english bridle leather in four different colors.  I spent a great deal of money.  I ordered a side previously and the quality was wonderful.  After receiving the latest batch of  leather I observed that one or two of the sides were ugly and made up of wrinkles and grain issues, leaving me with would be a small yield.  I am especially unhappy that I spent $17.50/ft on a double bend that has many imperfections as well.  I am wondering if it is common practice to return hides or whether that is an industry "no no."  I've heard great things about Wickett and Craig, but fear that my products wont be superior quality if I allow them to send me anything less than above average leather.  Guidance would be greatly appreciated.  I don't want to ruin my rapport with the sales staff by being too picky, but I want and need only the best.  Additionally, I would like to know if anyone has any input on where to get the highest quality English Bridle leather.  

[NVLeatherWorx]

This is business and if the product is not to the standards expected, and advertised, then you should return it.  The W & C issue is not new and there have been several posts over the past couple of years that document this issue.  The choice is yours on whether or not to return it but from what I see from your attached image this is obviously a very fatty and terrible piece of leather.  I haven't seen anything this bad from Tandy and their cheapest/lowest quality line (Craftsman Oak).  If I had received a piece of leather looking like this, especially for the price that they charge, I would contact them and let them know that it is being boxed up and coming back to them.  I would then make sure that a refund was done and I would spend my money with H.O. because I have yet to have an issue with their leathers; their lowest grades look better than this one does.

[RSmithLeather]

Thanks a ton!  My intuition said return it, especially given the price I paid.  Being new to the game, I still feel naive when it comes to the different tanneries and suppliers.  Still learning, onward and upward, thanks again. 

[NVLeatherWorx]

No worries!  If you are a businessman then you need to think and act like one and I, as a businessman, would have had that thing on a return trip within a couple of hours of seeing it.  Customer service may not be happy about having to arrange for a return but if customer service had actually been considered when your order was pulled, verified, inspected, and packed then that conversation would not have even happened. 

I always explain to people that Customer Service departments exist today because we stopped providing customer service during the sales process; if you provide quality customer service then you shouldn't have to create a department to handle the complaints.  Kind of solves itself.

[CaptQuirk]

@NVLeatherWorx- I am getting ready to order leather, and was thinking about stepping up and trying W&C. Are you saying that they have sent out bad leather, or that HO is as good or better? I have never tried either, but I am ready to try something besides Tandy.

[billybopp]

I recently bought a side of W&C burgundy bridle, and it is just beautiful with essentially no flaws.  (Briefcase pictures coming as soon as I finish it).   The big advantage of W&C for us "little guys and hobbyists" is that they will sell you a single side, or part of one, without a huge premium on pricing.  With HO, we have to buy a minimum amount of one type and thickness which is far more than we're likely to use within a few years - unless we go through a reseller who either charges a premium, or provides "B" grade - or both.

Bill

[JLSleather]

I like W/C leather, and I like HO leather.  I have never returned leather to either place.  But, as with most places, W/C has "grades" - - I always ask for the best ("A" at HO, and "standard" at W/C).

I did get a couple of sides once from W/C that caused me to make a phone call to comment - couple years ago.  Did not return it, since the markings allowed me to cut smaller projects in clean leather (would not have been good for belts).  And I have a couple of sides (W/C) I dug out the other day, where the shoulder / neck area is pretty rough.  Don't know what I'll do with it.  But the rest of the leather looks great, so not panicking about any of it.  

The leather in the picture is not something I would care to use.  If you asked for "bargain" leather, then maybe that's okay. But if you paid for "premium", then I'd call W/C and see how they want to handle it.

Personally, in addition to stating that I really like W/C leather, I will also say that their service has always been good.  Can't say how they handle returns, cuz like I said I've never asked them to take any back.

And I'm with NV ..

1 hour ago, NVLeatherWorx said:

I always explain to people that Customer Service departments exist today because we stopped providing customer service during the sales process

 

[JLSleather]

And I'll say it again -- MUCH money can be saved by getting together with a couple other leather folk and purchasing larger quantities for the price breaks.  Lower pricing and far less shipping charges.

But, I suppose helping the next guy has gone the way of customer service...  

[NVLeatherWorx]

1 hour ago, CaptQuirk said:

@NVLeatherWorx- I am getting ready to order leather, and was thinking about stepping up and trying W&C. Are you saying that they have sent out bad leather, or that HO is as good or better? I have never tried either, but I am ready to try something besides Tandy.

There have been several within these forums recently that have had some issues with the consistency and quality of W&C leather, the OP here is just one of many to have posted about this.  I have been user of H.O. for a very long time and have also used leather from W&C and Horween and have found that they are all comparable.  I prefer H.O. because they are extremely high quality (the A grade, but their other grades are also very clean and nice to work with), they have always been consistent in their appearance and performance, and they are not as high priced as several have been making them out to be.  If you order direct from the tannery then you will be required to make a purchase of a minimum number of hides as per their policies but you can get their leather from other suppliers for equal to the tanner rates as long as you establish a wholesale account with that supplier (if they offer one that is).  I have never had an issue with H.O. and would, as a minimum, say that it stands equal to W&C.  Tandy used to have one helluva fine veg-tan awhile back, their Live Oak line, it was the standard by which others were judged but they had to go ruin that idea and started supplying the lesser quality leathers that are now tanned out of country in pursuit of higher profits; one of the many things that supports the idea that they have long since lost their way in our craft.

We all have to make our choices on what we use and who we get it from but we also have to be open to the potential of other options if the need arises.  In the case of the OP here it was quite obvious that the leather he had received was less than acceptable and should not have been selected based on what his needs/requirements were (which he instructed them in).  His provided image also supports the fact that W&C has some consistency issues as the OP has been using their product and noticed it himself.  I have tried others and always go back to what has been consistent in quality, appearance, and results; just the way proper business really operates.

[NVLeatherWorx]

21 minutes ago, billybopp said:

With HO, we have to buy a minimum amount of one type and thickness which is far more than we're likely to use within a few years - unless we go through a reseller who either charges a premium, or provides "B" grade - or both.

I can get a single side of H.O. 11 to 12 oz. (or any other weight) for a maximum of $7.95/sft from a supplier; this is the same price that you would be paying per square foot if you ordered it direct from H.O. on their purchase plan.  And this price is for the A grade.  I also know that you will be pay a premium for B grade from Springfield Leather.  I am in this as a business so every dollar invested into inventory has to be spent wisely; this is where the establishment of wholesale accounts is key and you don't have to be a big business to get the good pricing.  

[JLSleather]

20 minutes ago, NVLeatherWorx said:

ingle side of H.O. 11 to 12 oz. (or any other weight) for a maximum of $7.95/sft from

That's the HO direct price ... We'd all like to know about that one