Feeling frustrated (example shown, critique needed)

[Reindeer]

It's a design from one of those Al Stohlman stencils, I'm not designing my own yet. It's 9oz leather.

It just doesn't look right. I feel like I'm doing something wrong. I used to have an issue where I was tooling with the leather way too wet, so I stopped doing that and all my work looks improved, but I still feel like something is not "clicking"? Like I'm missing something about this.

I have most of the Al Stohlman books including Figure Carving Finesse. Sometimes it's a bit overwhelming and confusing though, and most of all I wish I could see his work in real life, because I stare at the flat photos in the books and I wonder how deep the cuts are and such...and sometimes it's hard to make out what effect he's trying to teach? I feel like I need to see and touch to really understand, but that's not possible...I don't know any leatherworkers in my area either.

I feel like maybe I'm striking too hard or cutting too deep? Beveling too deep? Using the wrong bevelers? Stohlman recommends certain specific bevelers for figure carving, but I don't have those exact ones (yet). I have these straight bevelers, B935 and the bigger/wider version of that one. Will it really look THAT much better if I use the triangle-shaped "figure bevelers" Stohlman says to use?

Also I don't know what Stohlman means when he talks about using the modeling tool to "smooth and round off edges" of the beveling. Like, I see this ledge that occurs when you bevel, but I don't really understand how to make it round, when I try to use the modeling tool on it it just feels like I'm making the image less dynamic and pressing the edges down so they don't stand out as much. idk if that makes sense.

Obviously the lines inside the animal (supposed to be muscle definition) is a hot mess. Also I suppose I should add some fur texture?

So idk. Any and all advice and critique is welcomed. I kinda like how this turned out because I really like working with thick leather, it allows a lot of depth which is fun, but I still feel like I'm not understanding something about it.

[Basically Bob]

Hey Reindeer - have you been to the Learnleather.com website?  It's a great resource and there are a couple of instructional videos that you might be interested in.  (I am in no way affiliated with the site.  Just a very happy subscriber)

Here's a link:

http://www.learnleather.com/leather-working-videos/page/2/

BTW, I was so frustrated with my basket stamping and the video on Learnleather.com solved the problem I was having.

[JLSleather]

Your carving is not so bad as you think... some small changes will make a big difference.  And yes -- the figure bevelers are worth having

I know it's popular to recommend some y-tube (pronounced 'why-tube') or try to sell you something else, but none of this is necessary.  Just don't understand why so many talk about continuing a very old art, then insist on reinventing the wheel

So, I could write a page here, maybe link some 'stuff', blahblahblah...  OR, I could just point you to an article right on this site where some gal already covered this extremely well

 

[CaptQuirk]

It looks good to me, just a little rough around the edges. Take a modeling spoon to the rough areas you beveled, and that should make you feel better.

[Reindeer]

2 hours ago, Basically Bob said:

Hey Reindeer - have you been to the Learnleather.com website?  It's a great resource and there are a couple of instructional videos that you might be interested in.  (I am in no way affiliated with the site.  Just a very happy subscriber)

Here's a link:

http://www.learnleather.com/leather-working-videos/page/2/

BTW, I was so frustrated with my basket stamping and the video on Learnleather.com solved the problem I was having.

Thanks, I'll take a look, I don't think I've seen this site before.

2 hours ago, JLSleather said:

Your carving is not so bad as you think... some small changes will make a big difference.  And yes -- the figure bevelers are worth having

I know it's popular to recommend some y-tube (pronounced 'why-tube') or try to sell you something else, but none of this is necessary.  Just don't understand why so many talk about continuing a very old art, then insist on reinventing the wheel

So, I could write a page here, maybe link some 'stuff', blahblahblah...  OR, I could just point you to an article right on this site where some gal already covered this extremely well

 

That's very helpful Thank you.

2 hours ago, CaptQuirk said:

It looks good to me, just a little rough around the edges. Take a modeling spoon to the rough areas you beveled, and that should make you feel better.

Well actually as I mentioned, I'm not really quite sure how the modeling spoon works. I've examined Al Stohlman's instructions for it, but I find I'm not really getting the concept of it because the pictures in the books look so flat...I can't really tell what the edges ought to look like. If you think that's what's bothering me though I will certainly try and find a video or something.

[Reindeer]

Well I've been working on him.

I'm still not sure if I'm using the modeling spoon correctly but I think he looks a lot better now regardless. It bugs me how I did the eye though. I can't "un-carve" it, but next time I'll try to do the eye like Yak Lady did in that thread about horses.

I added some hair texture but I'm still not quite happy with the muscle lines. I suppose I might need the special bevelers for that.

[Bodean]

If that's your first attempt it's a good job. One thing about it nothing I ever did came out right the first time. Through experience and practice you will get better. Just don't get frustrated and give up. Live and learn and experiment, and practice.

[Reindeer]

2 minutes ago, Bodean said:

If that's your first attempt it's a good job. One thing about it nothing I ever did came out right the first time. Through experience and practice you will get better. Just don't get frustrated and give up. Live and learn and experiment, and practice.

Well it's my first figure carving attempt, but I've done sheridan and Celtic knots a couple times.

Thanks, that's what people keep saying, but I come from a formal music background, and in music they say you have to "practice smart", always identifying and analyzing what you've done wrong, or else you might reinforce bad habits and go backwards! It's probably made me a bit hard on myself in other artistic endeavors lol. So when I felt unhappy with this deer and couldn't pinpoint what was wrong, boy it's frustrating for me lol, it's hard to just move on. I'll sure try to lighten up a bit and not give up lol.

[JLSleather]

3 minutes ago, Reindeer said:

to "practice smart", ...or else you might reinforce bad habits and go backwards!

You are exactly correct. 

[Bodean]

6 minutes ago, Reindeer said:

Well it's my first figure carving attempt, but I've done sheridan and Celtic knots a couple times.

Thanks, that's what people keep saying, but I come from a formal music background, and in music they say you have to "practice smart", always identifying and analyzing what you've done wrong, or else you might reinforce bad habits and go backwards! It's probably made me a bit hard on myself in other artistic endeavors lol. So when I felt unhappy with this deer and couldn't pinpoint what was wrong, boy it's frustrating for me lol, it's hard to just move on. I'll sure try to lighten up a bit and not give up lol.

I feel the same way as you do with playing guitar. It is hard for me to comprehend. But I could build a guitar from scratch. Some things in leather I am better at than others. I think we have to find our strengths and weaknesses, just like in anything else, and it takes time. Many of us will never be an Al Stohlman, but we can be ourselves. I want to try the figure carving when I have time, but other leather endeavors keep me busy at the moment. 

[Reindeer]

32 minutes ago, JLSleather said:

You are exactly correct. 

Bodean has a point though. I ended up dropping out of music school but that hard-ass mentality stuck with me for good, and if I'm not careful I get way too hard on myself and stuck on what I'm doing wrong instead of moving forward. I gotta chill out a little bit tbh.

23 minutes ago, Bodean said:

I feel the same way as you do with playing guitar. It is hard for me to comprehend. But I could build a guitar from scratch. Some things in leather I am better at than others. I think we have to find our strengths and weaknesses, just like in anything else, and it takes time. Many of us will never be an Al Stohlman, but we can be ourselves. I want to try the figure carving when I have time, but other leather endeavors keep me busy at the moment. 

Piano and French horn here, going on 20 years.

Formal music training kinda messed me up because you talk about finding "strengths", but in music school you have to make everything your strength, you're expected to be perfect lol. You're not allowed to have any weaknesses. Sometimes that discipline is good to have, but sometimes it really backfires lol. If something isn't "clicking" for me I and I can't figure it out, I can become demotivated. Gotta work on that and just keep going lol.

[JD62]

The "rounding" of the antlers, neck and front legs looks good, and the matting helps a lot. I think if you just keep practicing you'll have it in no time! The muscle highlights I think just need to be shallower and not have the sharp line on one side. I look forward to seeing more of your work.

[Reindeer]

6 hours ago, JD62 said:

The "rounding" of the antlers, neck and front legs looks good, and the matting helps a lot. I think if you just keep practicing you'll have it in no time! The muscle highlights I think just need to be shallower and not have the sharp line on one side. I look forward to seeing more of your work.

Thanks, I agree about the muscle highlights.

[NVLeatherWorx]

17 hours ago, Reindeer said:

Well I've been working on him.

I'm still not sure if I'm using the modeling spoon correctly but I think he looks a lot better now regardless. It bugs me how I did the eye though. I can't "un-carve" it, but next time I'll try to do the eye like Yak Lady did in that thread about horses.

I added some hair texture but I'm still not quite happy with the muscle lines. I suppose I might need the special bevelers for that.

One thing that I would suggest is that when you are doing the muscle tone areas (shoulders, ribcage, hips, etc.) instead of doing a fine cut and then beveling it out try working with it like Al Stohlman did; those lines on his patterns are traditionally dotted or broken line at the least which are intended to denote a shaded area and not necessarily a cut and bevel area.  I have been doing figure carving for quite some time and found that the best way to get those areas looking more natural is to work them with modeling spoons (which is what Al did, and that is what he taught me) and even an occasional pear shader if you need a broader a area (use it like a modeling spoon and keep pushing it down until you get the right contour).  I also learned from him that once you have all of you edges finished, regardless of whether beveled or shaped, you should use the modeling spoon and round all sharp/abrupt edges so that you bring more realistic life look to the project.  You would be amazed at the difference you will see from just rounding off the edges of a leg and how much more real it makes the detail look.  Shading is you best friend when it comes to figure carving because that is what creates your relief and it can be done with something so simple as a modeling tool.  But, as mentioned earlier, it is also a good idea to have the right figure carving tools to this work with as they come in very handy when you have large areas that you have to cover.  The modeling spoon concept is a direct result of the Leather Carving Finesse book and he and Anne used it religiously.

[Reindeer]

50 minutes ago, NVLeatherWorx said:

One thing that I would suggest is that when you are doing the muscle tone areas (shoulders, ribcage, hips, etc.) instead of doing a fine cut and then beveling it out try working with it like Al Stohlman did; those lines on his patterns are traditionally dotted or broken line at the least which are intended to denote a shaded area and not necessarily a cut and bevel area.  I have been doing figure carving for quite some time and found that the best way to get those areas looking more natural is to work them with modeling spoons (which is what Al did, and that is what he taught me) and even an occasional pear shader if you need a broader a area (use it like a modeling spoon and keep pushing it down until you get the right contour).  I also learned from him that once you have all of you edges finished, regardless of whether beveled or shaped, you should use the modeling spoon and round all sharp/abrupt edges so that you bring more realistic life look to the project.  You would be amazed at the difference you will see from just rounding off the edges of a leg and how much more real it makes the detail look.  Shading is you best friend when it comes to figure carving because that is what creates your relief and it can be done with something so simple as a modeling tool.  But, as mentioned earlier, it is also a good idea to have the right figure carving tools to this work with as they come in very handy when you have large areas that you have to cover.  The modeling spoon concept is a direct result of the Leather Carving Finesse book and he and Anne used it religiously.

Lol it's funny because mine aren't cut or beveled, I did use the modeling spoon. It still came out looking odd... I think I need to see a video about using the modeling tool.

[NVLeatherWorx]

1 hour ago, Reindeer said:

Lol it's funny because mine aren't cut or beveled, I did use the modeling spoon. It still came out looking odd... I think I need to see a video about using the modeling tool.

Then you beveled pretty deep because those lines are very well defined as if they had been lightly cut first.  What size spoon are you using?  If you only have the smaller version it would be a good investment (along with the figure bevelers) to get the larger one as well.  I have about 9 different models (still from the original "old school" days) and wouldn't know what to do if I didn't have them.  These things have long since lost their original chrome plating and are now just aged, smooth, hardened steel (and they work much better now than they did when they were new).  I don't think you need to see a video, just use the spoon like you would use a hand-held pear shader and slowly shape, depress, and form the leather to the results that you are looking for; it is very much like burnishing only you aren't going for speed, you are going for form.  You could start off by actually using a pear shader (size depends on area to be formed) by lightly following your contour lines (down the middle of it) and tapping your shader just enough to start the area off; finish it off by gradually shaping/shading/forming the overall area to get the relief that is intended.  The learning curve on this is not as difficult as some make it sound; just practice the techniques and adjust as necessary until you get the look that you are going for.  This holds true to everything about this craft.

[immiketoo]

On 7/2/2017 at 6:48 PM, Reindeer said:

Lol it's funny because mine aren't cut or beveled, I did use the modeling spoon. It still came out looking odd... I think I need to see a video about using the modeling tool.

Reindeer, despite what Jeff says, there is a lot of value in watching how certain techniques are done and how a tool might be used differently. This is why trade shows like Sheridan and Prescott are so popular, and why Bob Beard travels the world teaching.   Most people lack the ability to accurately describe a complex process in a way that will make sense to everyone, hence the term a picture is worth a thousand words.  I started www.learnleather.com because I was as frustrated as you with the lack of quality instruction available online, and because not everyone can afford the thousands it takes to go to a show.  I have many classes from true professionals on my site.  Bob is talking about a class by Chan Geer that is fantastic.

That being said, you are having several issues that can be addressed.  What tools are you using to carve?  Do you have the proper figure carving bevelers?  Without them, it's quite difficult to get the proper effect.  Stohlman's book is fantastic, and a great resource, but it doesn't preclude other resources.  As for you wanting a video on the use of the modeling spoon, I have one on my site that has been recommended by folks like Peter Main.  Its just me, and as such, I am willing to offer this video class to you for free just so you can see if its a format you like.  Here is the link, if you want the class, message me privately and I will send it to you.

 

http://www.learnleather.com/shop/modeling-spoon-basics/

[Kulafarmer]

On 7/1/2017 at 0:43 AM, JLSleather said:

 

So, I could write a page here, maybe link some 'stuff', blahblahblah...  OR, I could just point you to an article right on this site where some gal already covered this extremely well

 

JLS

thanks,,, sometimes what one is looking for is right in front o em

[JLSleather]

On 1/28/2018 at 11:08 AM, Kulafarmer said:

JLS

thanks,,, sometimes what one is looking for is right in front o em

Been right there for just over EIGHT YEARS - still very well done and still valid (leather hasn't changed).  Don't thank me, thank her.

 

[immiketoo]

On 1/30/2018 at 7:01 PM, JLSleather said:

Been right there for just over EIGHT YEARS - still very well done and still valid (leather hasn't changed).  Don't thank me, thank her.

 

Kathy is awesome and that is a great tutorial.  Its even better live!