Cheap hardware

[Tom Katzke]

The attachment is a picture of a D ring that was used on a dog collar we (my wife Sheryl) made. I am not 100% sure where it came from but think it was taken from a commercial collar we bought to strip the small hardware off of. If you have ever tried to find small hardware for poodle sized dogs you know it just is not out there.

The D ring was solid until our 5 month old pup decided to get in trouble and I put her on a chain to teach her some manners. I find that about an hour gives the right attitude adjustment needed. She has been fine today.

Back to the D ring. The pup is just over 20 pounds. Circumstances arose where she decided to take off on a full run. I was waiting to she what happened when she came to the end of the chain and SNAP the chain came flying back along with the D ring, the dog kept going unaffected.

My first thought was Sheryl used a split D ring. The D ring turned out to be solid but cast. I think it is the most common metal used for such items, Zinc. We normally use solid brass hardware but it was hard to find 1/2 inch or smaller hardware when we last ordered.

The lesson is make sure you know what hardware you are using. If it is not up to the task you could have a very unhappy customer or friend. Just imagine if this was a nice purse snatched by a burly crook at a full run. Kind of hard to explain why the D on the handle just snapped so easy. Me I am glad this happened in the confines of our back yard. No more stripping hardware off of commercial gear for us. If we can not find hardware we know the quality of then we will not make the item.

Quality solid D rings are not that much more then cast Zinc or split D's. As far as I know they are available in Brass, Stainless, Bronze, Chrome over Brass, and Nickel over Brass. The only problem is finding them in the smaller sizes. It may require you to change the design a bit, or just not go that small.

Tom Katzke

Central Oregon

[Johanna]

I guess I would rather have my purse break than have some thug drag me off with it while stealing it, but it has never happened. I do not use low quality hardware because I know that leather (properly cared for) is forever. Cheap hardware demeans the value, both aesthetic and function, of the work. Cheap hardware can also affect the safety of an animal or a person. (Ask the horse enthusiasts!)

One of my Rotts was a rescue from a skinhead family, and until I retrained her, I had to depend on her gear to keep her in control. No one is going to panic at a poodle on the loose, but your pup could have been hit by a car. My dog could have caused serious injury or death to an innocent person, but the consistent training I provided her was more effective than any leather contraption I could have designed, for the protection of people she was taught to attack without provocation before I adopted her and retrained her at 2 years of age.

What bothers me about your post, as a mother and a dog lover, is that a 5 month old pup does not understand "time on the chain" as a punishment. Dogs do not have that kind of thinking. A better solution is an immediate correction (with my Rottweilers I used pennies inside a Coke can to reinforce my "No!") and lavish praise for desirable behavior. Dogs have an inherent desire to please, so the trick is to guide them to the acceptable ways of earning your approval. To reward appropriately, you don't need a pocket full of treats, just gentle words and head or belly rubs.

Johanna

[Tom Katzke]

I guess I would rather have my purse break than have some thug drag me off with it while stealing it, but it has never happened. I do not use low quality hardware because I know that leather (properly cared for) is forever. Cheap hardware demeans the value, both aesthetic and function, of the work. Cheap hardware can also affect the safety of an animal or a person. (Ask the horse enthusiasts!)[\quote]

Part of my intent of the post is we thought we were using good hardware. It came off of a commercial collar. There is no way to test for Zinc verses Chrome over Solid Brass with out ruining the hardware. If the major suppliers had small hardware at the time we were ordering we would have gotten it. Not all of the small hardware available is any different then what we used. I have spent many ours searching for quality hardware in sizes 1/2 inch and smaller. It just is not out there. We have decided to not make any collars smaller then 1/2 inch. That will last only as long as we can still get good buckles and D's. Same with leads, we will not make anything smaller the a 3/8th round lead. Too bad as there is a market out there for tiny leads in the show circuit. I just will not put our name on anything with cheep hardware.

What bothers me about your post, as a mother and a dog lover, is that a 5 month old pup does not understand "time on the chain" as a punishment. Dogs do not have that kind of thinking. A better solution is an immediate correction (with my Rottweilers I used pennies inside a Coke can to reinforce my "No!") and lavish praise for desirable behavior. Dogs have an inherent desire to please, so the trick is to guide them to the acceptable ways of earning your approval. To reward appropriately, you don't need a pocket full of treats, just gentle words and head or belly rubs.

Johanna

I never wanted to get into the discussion of dog training. You do what works for your dogs. I can tell you that my dog understood the reason for being restrained. She is a completely different dog today then she was yesterday. Could be the difference in bread. Large breads take longer to mature then small breads do. I can tell you that this dog would laugh at your pennies in the can trick. This dog understands what "kick your butt" means and she has never had her butt kicked. She just knows if she does not stop doing what she is doing and I ask her if she wants me to kick her butt then she stops doing it. This works when NO has no effect. It is the last resort used. Dogs are just like kids, some are smarter then others. They escalate until they know they will be in real trouble. It is part of growing up. Once the boundaries are set in a consistent manner then they know what is accepted and what is not.

You do what works for you and I will do what works for me. This is dog number 4 in my adult life and all of them have been better trained then 90% of the dogs I see including the ones that have gone to school.

Next time you want to take someone to task do it privately. This was only an example of how hardware can fail if not from a trusted source. Lots of hardware is out there with no description of materials used in construction. Lots of hardware is out on the second hand market as well.

Tom Katzke

Central Oregon

[Johanna]

Next time you want to take someone to task do it privately.

It was never my intention to "take you to task", and if I have offended you, I am sorry.

I agree, everyone has their own styles of training their pets. Someday I would like to write a book with a "using your dog for practice before becoming a parent" theme, because I have found many of the same principles have been transferable, and I see an increasing number of ill mannered dogs and children in my small village. As a former retail manager, I learned that time invested in training saved me immeasurable time as the years went on, and I feel the same way about my dogs and kids. If I sounded like I was on a soapbox, I apologize, for it was not my intention. You are correct, and I regret going off topic.

Johanna

[Tom Katzke]

It was never my intention to "take you to task", and if I have offended you, I am sorry.

I agree, everyone has their own styles of training their pets. Someday I would like to write a book with a "using your dog for practice before becoming a parent" theme, because I have found many of the same principles have been transferable, and I see an increasing number of ill mannered dogs and children in my small village. As a former retail manager, I learned that time invested in training saved me immeasurable time as the years went on, and I feel the same way about my dogs and kids. If I sounded like I was on a soapbox, I apologize, for it was not my intention. You are correct, and I regret going off topic.

Johanna

Accepted totally.

I guess I could have changed the story and made up a test using a bowling ball or something but it would not have had conveyed the same impact of a small dog doing the damage.

I just have to wonder if the maker of the original collar did any kind of testing. I can remember a story my Father told of staying at a camp ground on a business trip. The guy next door had a mongrel dog tied up to his rig. It barked all the time my Dad was around. He cooked a steak that night and wanted to make friends with the dog so he tossed (not threw) the bone at him as an offering, along with the usual hear doggy be my friend speech. The dogs owner was away at the time. The dog must have thought my Dad was trying to kill him as he took off running the opposite direction busting what ever he was tied with. If we are making items intended to restrain animals we need to make sure they will do the job. If I saw you with your new Rot on a lead I would have been happy to see your lead and collar would have restrained the beast.

As a finish to my Father's story the dog was home the next day with a really stupid look upon his face. All's well that ends.

Tom Katzke

Central Oregon

[esantoro]

The attachment is a picture of a D ring that was used on a dog collar we (my wife Sheryl) made. I am not 100% sure where it came from but think it was taken from a commercial collar we bought to strip the small hardware off of. If you have ever tried to find small hardware for poodle sized dogs you know it just is not out there.

The D ring was solid until our 5 month old pup decided to get in trouble and I put her on a chain to teach her some manners. I find that about an hour gives the right attitude adjustment needed. She has been fine today.

Back to the D ring. The pup is just over 20 pounds. Circumstances arose where she decided to take off on a full run. I was waiting to she what happened when she came to the end of the chain and SNAP the chain came flying back along with the D ring, the dog kept going unaffected.

My first thought was Sheryl used a split D ring. The D ring turned out to be solid but cast. I think it is the most common metal used for such items, Zinc. We normally use solid brass hardware but it was hard to find 1/2 inch or smaller hardware when we last ordered.

The lesson is make sure you know what hardware you are using. If it is not up to the task you could have a very unhappy customer or friend. Just imagine if this was a nice purse snatched by a burly crook at a full run. Kind of hard to explain why the D on the handle just snapped so easy. Me I am glad this happened in the confines of our back yard. No more stripping hardware off of commercial gear for us. If we can not find hardware we know the quality of then we will not make the item.

Quality solid D rings are not that much more then cast Zinc or split D's. As far as I know they are available in Brass, Stainless, Bronze, Chrome over Brass, and Nickel over Brass. The only problem is finding them in the smaller sizes. It may require you to change the design a bit, or just not go that small.

Tom Katzke

Central Oregon

I couldn't agree more with not taking short-cuts on hardware.

I love using solid brass D-rings on projects and would like to find a good wource for solid silver D-rings. Right now the best wieght and aesthetics I've found are the Tandy welded but D-rings.

Can anyone recomment a good D-ring source. I've already had several companies send me samples but nothing has impressed me.

Ed

[Hoyden]

I couldn't agree more with not taking short-cuts on hardware.

I love using solid brass D-rings on projects and would like to find a good wource for solid silver D-rings. Right now the best wieght and aesthetics I've found are the Tandy welded but D-rings.

Can anyone recomment a good D-ring source. I've already had several companies send me samples but nothing has impressed me.

Ed

I get the majority of my D-rings from Weaver. I also buy some from Ohio Travel bag, strapworks and creative design works.

http://www.cdwplus.com/ (Has itty bitty D-rings - but they are more expensive)

http://www.strapworks.com/ More expensive than Weaver and Ohio Travel bag, but no miniumum.