Singer 29-4 question

[JNewkirkct]

I've been offered two 29-4 singers one works and one for parts for $450.  My questions are is it worth the price? What thickness leather can it sew? I need to be able to sew two pieces of 8-9 oz and who repairs them in here? Thanks so much!

[CowboyBob]

Yes,it should handle that thickness max thread size is #92 on it.You should take some samples of what you want to sew with you & try it b4 you buy it.We stock some parts,needles & thread for it.You might want to do a search on them,it's on the upper right hand corner of this page.They also have an issue w/marking the top of the leather since the bottom of the feet have teeth on them to grip the leather to feed it .

[JNewkirkct]

Thanks for your help! Worth the price?

[CowboyBob]

Yes,they are priced in the ballpark esp if the one sews like they say & maybe you could get the other one sewing & sell it.

[Yetibelle]

I really like the 29-4, they are fun machines. I found some 29-4 sew fine straight but when you go to turn the head they start to fail.  I have been told this is due to a worn part in the head that can be replaced but that part is typically $30.  So when you test the working machine make sure it sews as you turn the head and the stitch length is consistent.  Having the second machine for parts is nice but most if those parts you may never need.  The $450 includes the treadle base, or just to machine heads?  

[Wizcrafts]

I have owned many 29 series "patchers" including the pesky -4 models. I currently use two Singer patchers. One is a 29k71 and the other is a 29k172. I am only going to address your question as to whether they can sew 16 to 18 ounces together and how well they can do it.

On both of my current 29 series machines and all the others I have had, including a couple of 29-4, the absolute maximum uncompressed thickness I have been able to get the machines to feed/sew is a tish over a quarter inch; let's call it 18 ounces. This assumes a machine that can sew at factory specs. Since the 29-4 machines are all over a hundred years old, you will be asking a lot out of the foot lifting mechanism and adjusters. If the presser foot lift parts cannot go any higher than 18 or 19 ounces, the teeth on the foot will claw up the top grain as the are pushed forward for the next stitch.

Let's assume the machine you are looking at can actually lift the foot high enough to sew 18 ounces together and move it along for the next stitches without clawing up the grain. The length of those stitches may not be what you were hoping for ;-( 

The patcher type machines have a rotating foot mechanism that turns 360° inside a hollowed out ring inside the head. There is a metal appendage on one end of the feed mechanism that slides inside the hollow ring. As that "puck" wears down, slack sets into the feed motion crank and the stitches get shorter and shorter. You can actually feel this slack by pushing and pulling on the raised presser foot. Due to the way the feed is designed, the stitches already tend to get shorter as you approach 1/4 inch thickness. 

A pristine or rebuilt Singer patcher can sew as long as 5 stitches per inch. A worn out feed motion crank and lifting parts can lower this to 8, 10 or 12 stitches per inch, maximum.

I would take some leather with when you go to see the machine. Glue two pieces together on some to see how it does with 16 to 18 ounces combined. If it can clear the two pieces  without gouging the top and can sew at least 6 or 7 stitches per inch into the stack,  it is a good deal. But, if it has trouble feeding the two pieces, or can only sew tiny stitches, you're looking a a complicated repair job to bring it back to usable specs.

Another matter of concern is the timing mechanism. It the machine skips stitches, those parts are probably well worn as well.

[JNewkirkct]

17 hours ago, Wizcrafts said:

I have owned many 29 series "patchers" including the pesky -4 models. I currently use two Singer patchers. One is a 29k71 and the other is a 29k172. I am only going to address your question as to whether they can sew 16 to 18 ounces together and how well they can do it.

On both of my current 29 series machines and all the others I have had, including a couple of 29-4, the absolute maximum uncompressed thickness I have been able to get the machines to feed/sew is a tish over a quarter inch; let's call it 18 ounces. This assumes a machine that can sew at factory specs. Since the 29-4 machines are all over a hundred years old, you will be asking a lot out of the foot lifting mechanism and adjusters. If the presser foot lift parts cannot go any higher than 18 or 19 ounces, the teeth on the foot will claw up the top grain as the are pushed forward for the next stitch.

Let's assume the machine you are looking at can actually lift the foot high enough to sew 18 ounces together and move it along for the next stitches without clawing up the grain. The length of those stitches may not be what you were hoping for ;-( 

The patcher type machines have a rotating foot mechanism that turns 360° inside a hollowed out ring inside the head. There is a metal appendage on one end of the feed mechanism that slides inside the hollow ring. As that "puck" wears down, slack sets into the feed motion crank and the stitches get shorter and shorter. You can actually feel this slack by pushing and pulling on the raised presser foot. Due to the way the feed is designed, the stitches already tend to get shorter as you approach 1/4 inch thickness. 

A pristine or rebuilt Singer patcher can sew as long as 5 stitches per inch. A worn out feed motion crank and lifting parts can lower this to 8, 10 or 12 stitches per inch, maximum.

I would take some leather with when you go to see the machine. Glue two pieces together on some to see how it does with 16 to 18 ounces combined. If it can clear the two pieces  without gouging the top and can sew at least 6 or 7 stitches per inch into the stack,  it is a good deal. But, if it has trouble feeding the two pieces, or can only sew tiny stitches, you're looking a a complicated repair job to bring it back to usable specs.

Another matter of concern is the timing mechanism. It the machine skips stitches, those parts are probably well worn as well.

I've decided to pass on it, I'm going to look into a cowboy 4500 new in box where I hopefully won't have to worry about problems for a long while.  I recently retired from the fire service and what seemed like overnight my hobby exploded into a business, so I'm going to need something reliable and strong, can anyone help me out with financing a new cowboy 4500?

[Wizcrafts]

16 minutes ago, JNewkirkct said:

I've decided to pass on it, I'm going to look into a cowboy 4500 new in box where I hopefully won't have to worry about problems for a long while.  I recently retired from the fire service and what seemed like overnight my hobby exploded into a business, so I'm going to need something reliable and strong, can anyone help me out with financing a new cowboy 4500?

You won't regret this decision. I make a lot of money sewing things and my CB4500 is the only machine in the shop that sews holsters, sheathes and other thick items with heavy bonded thread. The cylinder arm proves to be very useful, or mandatory, about half the time.

Since you will probably sew a wide range of thicknesses and materials, get packs of needles in all available sizes, from #19 up, and thread sizes to match (#92 through 346 or 415).

Bob Kovar (Cowboy Bob) might know a company that finances the (Cowboy and other) machines he sells. Ask him!

[JNewkirkct]

1 hour ago, Wizcrafts said:

You won't regret this decision. I make a lot of money sewing things and my CB4500 is the only machine in the shop that sews holsters, sheathes and other thick items with heavy bonded thread. The cylinder arm proves to be very useful, or mandatory, about half the time.

Since you will probably sew a wide range of thicknesses and materials, get packs of needles in all available sizes, from #19 up, and thread sizes to match (#92 through 346 or 415).

Bob Kovar (Cowboy Bob) might know a company that finances the (Cowboy and other) machines he sells. Ask him!

All you guys on this blog are great, thanks for all the help

[SolarLeatherMachines]

On 8/7/2017 at 5:17 PM, Wizcrafts said:

Bob Kovar (Cowboy Bob) might know a company that finances the (Cowboy and other) machines he sells. Ask him!

I think both Bob & I will offer to accept payment through Paypal.  Paypal will offer you financing for the machines.  Pretty reasonable:  0% for 6 months, and then goes to 8-15% afterwards.  A lot of my customers buy new Cowboy machines using this method.  

[CowboyBob]

Hey Alex,Thanks for the info I didn't know about that.