average treadle machine is a garment machine

[Art]

Hi Susan and Welcome to Leatherworker.net,

There were many leather machines that were treadle operated and were in the West doing leatherwork from the 1880's on. However, the average treadle machine is most definately a garment machine, which with a good needle will do garment leather. The primary differences are:

The leather machines had greater reduction for more power,

The leather machines had multiple feeds to advance two or more layers of leather without the bottom getting ahead of the top,

The leather machines would handle larger thread and mostly linen, and in that vein the metals were metallurgically softer, and the new nylon and poly threads will cause wear on them.

The smallest size needle I use is a metric 90 or 100 (that's a 14 or 16 Singer) for size 69 thread and a size 16 probably won't fit most Singer (Home Treadle) needle bars, much less being able to find the right system or a spear point needle in that system.

That being said, if you have one around, you can play with it and it might work, but once you get over 2 or 3 oz doubled it won't be at all satisfactory. Use a wedge tip needle (might be called a leather needle).

Art

quote from Susan

Hi Art,

Thanks so much for the info, another person also suggested leatherworker.net so I"m going to check them out in just a few minutes.

Since you moderate the leather sewing machines forum, can you tell me if there is any possibility of using a tredle type sewing machine

to sew leather or does it have to be specifically a leather machine? I know my regular machine won't do it, but I wasn't sure about the

tredle, it seems like a heavier machine.

Thanks so much!

Susan

[$$hobby]

Those treadles are good machines.

my cuz used them in her work clothing store up until they closed last year. she would use it to restitch carhartts and jeans when some customers wanted their overalls or pants shortened.

if youre going off the grid, they would be worth their weight in gold.

[bruce johnson]

Art,

I am sitting here looking at my wife's Singer 66-16 electric model bought new by her mother. The serial number matches up with 1951, she bought it in '52. The original manual lists that it will take a needle up to #21 to sewing with thread size "40 to 60 Linen or very Coarse Cotton". I am not sure how these thread sizes compare to what I am using now.

First off, I have started paying attention, and see a ton of these machines in the antique stores in treadle and electric versions. Prices all over the scale. Apparently they were made from the 20s to the 50s. Think they might do the job for wallet linings, or inlays with chrome tans?

Second question, some of the bootmaker guys seem to like the 31-15 with the roller foot for inlays and sewing neatly close to an edge. How close is the 31 series to the 66? Can the 66 be fit with a roller foot? Not sure I want to just jump in solo and face the wrath if something should happen to the 66, but if I say "Art said it was OK", I have an out. Thanks,

Bruce Johnson

[Art]

Hi Bruce,

A singer pro I am not. I can tell you a little but for any details get with industrial at 503-759-4373. The 66s have a horizontal bobbin system which I don't like for larger thread; anything over 69 or 92 might be a problem. The 66 was made from the 20s on so there must be a ton of parts for them (or just pick-up a spare machine). The machine is beefy by today's standards and no plastic gears or parts, cranks and rods are fairly large and if tight should handle even 6 or 7 oz and maybe a little more depending more on the needle size and what you can get under the foot than the machine. The 66 uses the 15X1 which is pretty std and easy to find anywhere although you might have to order it in spear point. A 21 (140) needle is pretty beefy for 69 thread and makes me think you might be able to use a 138 thread if you can get enough tension in the top, you will have to experiment here. I wouldn't worry about hurting it beyond repair on the head, I would worry more about that carbon foot control but again it probably wasn't used enough to worry about, if it breaks, replace it.

The 31s were a little better but pretty much the same except for a better bobbin. Both are garment machines so leather wasn't their intended use, the 31 is a little beefier. Their true value is that they can be picked-up cheap and they work, but they sure aren't a 1245. Keep in mind the 66 is and was designed as a home machine and the 31 is a tailor's machine, although back in the day, home machines were designed to be used heavily and on a wider variety of materials from jeans to silk.

Don't know about the roller foot, call industrial about that. For sewing close to the edge, use the smallest needle and thread you can get away with, it will produce the neatest job, rely on glue for strength. Teflon coated or titanium needles are good here also if you can get them, especially if glue is not quite dry.

Neither the 66 or the 31 are antiques and there are bazillions of them out there, the machines should be inexpensive and the cases or stands should drive the price, with a treadle being more the curiosity and demanding a higher price. Be careful with 31s as they may be well used (up). A 66 will usually have decals, 31s will not usually have much decaling if any.

Art says it is ok to play with your 66, and if you do break it, any local guy can fix it, he probably worked on one at school.

For all the guys out there, when the wife drags you into an antique store, ask if they have any sewing machines and if they don't, leave (wife will learn to do this automatically). Look at all the antique sewing machines in detail, playing with them and snooping to learn as much as you can, wife will let you alone and is apparently happy to look at all the other crap for hours. Take a small digital camera with you as you will never remember all the makes and models you will see. Also take a flashlight as those places aren't well lighted for a reason. If the wife doesn't like antiques (or just antique stores) consider yourself lucky and find yourself another interest.

Art

Art,

I am sitting here looking at my wife's Singer 66-16 electric model bought new by her mother. The serial number matches up with 1951, she bought it in '52. The original manual lists that it will take a needle up to #21 to sewing with thread size "40 to 60 Linen or very Coarse Cotton". I am not sure how these thread sizes compare to what I am using now.

First off, I have started paying attention, and see a ton of these machines in the antique stores in treadle and electric versions. Prices all over the scale. Apparently they were made from the 20s to the 50s. Think they might do the job for wallet linings, or inlays with chrome tans?

Second question, some of the bootmaker guys seem to like the 31-15 with the roller foot for inlays and sewing neatly close to an edge. How close is the 31 series to the 66? Can the 66 be fit with a roller foot? Not sure I want to just jump in solo and face the wrath if something should happen to the 66, but if I say "Art said it was OK", I have an out. Thanks,

Bruce Johnson

[bruce johnson]

Art,

Thanks for the feedback. Actually my wife and I both like the antique stores. I collect books, and have found some great deals on old bits and a couple saddles. She likes old pottery and jewelry.

You are right about the 31s sometimes being worn out. On many I have been able to shake the needle bar with nothing else moving. I am thinking that is not necessarily a good thing. Now that I know what the 66 can handle, I am thinking it might be OK for linings and inlays, although I think a good treadle stand might make it more leather friendly. Has a bit of zip the way it is.

I will play with this one, and then keep an eye out for a good treadle model. I have all the feet with my wife's 66 - hemming, piping, some that look like you could scale and fillet fish with them in one pass. I don't care what the cabinet looks like, and like you say, that is the price separater for the antique stores. I have Ferdco's version of the 1245 and really like it for lighter strap goods and chaps. It is just an inconvenience to change the tensions and settings for running the light thread, normally I run 207 or 138 in it. I still haven't got the tension changes down pat like I do with my 2000. With that I know a quarter turn up or down for each thread size, and I really don't even need to check when changing threads. Thanks.

Bruce Johnson