Singer 31-15 or Nakajima TDU-N62

[KBCustom]

Hello everyone, I have run across both the singer 31-15 and the Nakajima TDU-N62. Sounds like they both run and are in decent condition. I am looking for a machine to start on. I mostly sew between 8 oz and 16 oz of leather. Will either of these machines do the job? And are they worth $350? Both come with a table and motor mounted underneath. Pictures attached

[Wizcrafts]

The Nakajima has reverse, the Singer does not. They will both sew up to 1/4 inch of soft material or soft leather. You're guaranteed to be able to use #69 thread, but either may or may not handle #92 thread (reqs #19 or #20 needle).

[KBCustom]

Thank you Wizcraft. I am very new to sewing machines so itll be a learning experience. I am leaning towards the nikajima, would this be a good first buy for 350?  I hand sew everything right now with nylon waxed thread. Obviously sewing machine thread is quite a bit thinner.  Since I dont know much about it, what is the average store bought belt stitched with, #69? I would still like a little more full thread look if possible. 

[Wizcrafts]

1 hour ago, KBCustom said:

I am leaning towards the nikajima, would this be a good first buy for 350?  I hand sew everything right now with nylon waxed thread. Obviously sewing machine thread is quite a bit thinner.  Since I dont know much about it, what is the average store bought belt stitched with, #69? I would still like a little more full thread look if possible. 

The Nakajima would probably be more modern than the Singer. It woukld be useful for sewing wallets, phone cases, leather garments, even chaps and dress belts.

Yes, #69 is what is usually used on store bought belts. It holds the layers of mush they call leather together.

Those machines can't come close to handling the thicker thread used in harness and holster stitchers. Not no way, no how.

[councilman24]

3 hours ago, KBCustom said:

Thank you Wizcraft. I am very new to sewing machines so itll be a learning experience. I am leaning towards the nikajima, would this be a good first buy for 350?  I hand sew everything right now with nylon waxed thread. Obviously sewing machine thread is quite a bit thinner.  Since I dont know much about it, what is the average store bought belt stitched with, #69? I would still like a little more full thread look if possible. 

A dress belt might be sewn with #69 but the harness leather mens belt I'm wearing is sewn along the edge with 5 or 6 cord.  #69 is upholstery thread.  I don't believe either of these will replace what your doing now.  At least not for the same look.  I consider $350 too much for a 31-15. Unless it's in a newer table with a servo motor.  Without photos of table can't tell. I'm not familiar with the nikajima.  Unless it's a different named version of a popular machine ( many machines are sold under many names) it might be hard to find parts.  The nikajima doesn't look familiar to me.  Parts for a 31-15 are easy.  You can look at #69 thread at any fabric store and decide if it's big enough.  To sew the heavy thread like in the photo of my belt below your going to spend 3 to 6 times as much.  Browse some of the posts or dealers advertising here.

To just learn how to sew with a commercial machine a cheaper 31-15 would be a good start useful for lots of light things.  There were made and used for the better part of a century.  But a better first machine to learn on might be an older, better quality than new,  Singer 20U.  Forward, reverse, zig zag.  Or a 111W151 or 155 for the next machine up, more or less, from a 31-15.  111, 112 double needle or 211 and 212 versions have needle or compound (walking foot) feed for heavy materials.  Read some of the starter information in the pinned posts.

 

[Wizcrafts]

In a nutshell, bonded nylon in size #69 / T70 is about twice the thickness of common cotton garment thread sold at Joann Fabrics stores. It would probably be about 1/8th or 1/10th the thickness of common hand sewing thread. The actual decimal diameter is .0115" and has 11 pounds breaking strength.

This size bonded thread is commonly used to sew wallet interiors, leather pants and skirts, light upholstery leather and vinyl covers. It is not a heavy duty thread in leather sewing terms. However, it does exceed most garment threads in strength. It requires a #18 needle in most instances.

[councilman24]

What Wiz said.  But you can get #69 at most fabric sewing shops as upholstery thread.  Usually labeled #69.  Or pull apart a seam on your couch to see what it looks like.

[dikman]

If I can offer some advice (bear in mind I've had "some" experience with industrial sewing machines but I still consider myself a rank amateur at this stuff) if you think you're likely to end up sewing leather goods by machine then don't mess around, look for a medium-class walking foot machine - Singer 111/211 class, Consew 206, Seiko 8DB etc or Pfaff 335 (or equivalent) if you want a cylinder arm. These will do the type of sewing you mention and with a bit of tweaking should handle up to #138 thread. If you buy a straight stitcher it won't take long to realise it's limitations on leather.

Also, get a servo motor. You might have a natural ability to control a clutch motor on leather (if you're lucky), but most don't and they can be pretty scary and frustrating to learn to control. I find it's enough to worry about getting a nice stitch line without fighting a motor that wants to travel at warp speed!

If you think you're likely to want to start collecting industrial sewing machines then by all means buy one of these to start with, but be warned once you start it's a very slippery slope!

[KBCustom]

Thank you for all the advice. I believe I'm going to be better off long term getting one that can handle larger projects. Is there a good list of machines to look for on here or a place I can look at used machines?

[Wizcrafts]

2 hours ago, KBCustom said:

Thank you for all the advice. I believe I'm going to be better off long term getting one that can handle larger projects. Is there a good list of machines to look for on here or a place I can look at used machines?

We have a section called The MarketPlace that has a sub-forum for people to sell used sewing machines. Good deals show up there on a wide variety of sewing machines. But, in order to make sense of all this you need to define the type of leather work you need to sew (soft, medium or hard temper), along with the range of thickness you will be sewing. Then, familiarize yourself with the different sizes of needle and thread. Next, see what types or classes of machines can handle that range of thicknesses and thread/needle combinations. Last comes buying the best machine to get started sewing.

A basic starting point is to know that tailoring machines, like the two you were asking about, are designed for cloth, not leather. They are optimized to sew with light weight thread, often at high speeds. They are almost always bottom feed machines (via feed dogs only). These usually max out at 1/4 inch, with #69 thread and a #18 needle.

The next class of machine up is walking foot upholstery class machines. They are built stronger and beefier to handle the pounding imposed by sewing leather, heavy vinyl, denim and webbing. These machines are either dual feed (top and bottom with static position needle), or triple/compound feed (needle, inside foot and feed dog all move in sync). Some max out at 5/16 inch, while others can sew into 3/8 inch. Most can handle thread sizes up to #138. This is probably the type of machine you will want.

The next step up involves harness/saddle/holster stitchers that can sew between 1/2 inch to 3/4 inch and more. They use much thicker thread than the upholstery class machines. Here is an entry level holster sewing machine that is very popular with our members.