Alder 269 or 69 Buying a Used one

[arz]

Hello,

I am looking at buying a used sewing machine. I have NO experience with sewing machines

We make slim card wallets, bifold wallets, clutches (with gussets), small bags etc. Normally we are using a total thickness between 2-6mm (very rarely above that!). Thread Serafil #20 or tex 138 (532 for hand sewing). I am getting tired of sewing by hand. I would like the ability to use up to 138 thread in the bottom bobbin.

I have the chance to buy a used Adler 269 for a very low price. (less than $500). The seller "says" it works great. I would be able to test it as it is only a few hours from me.  I would have to buy a servo motor for it etc.  What do you think? It has the old Efka variostop motor (380V). 

Would I be better of with a Adler 69?.They are very common here. I can get a one from a used dealer (they look good) for around $500. They also have a nice Pfaff 335 and Juki 245.

Thanks! -Adam

[arz]

I forgot to mention we use Italian vegtan and French goat. Max 2mm leather. We like a finer Euro style in general.

[Wizcrafts]

#138 thread might be a little too big to bury the lockstitch knots inside 2 to 3 ounces of leather. I would recommend using #69 (T70) for thicknesses below a combined 4 ounces. You can fill the gap between 4 - 6 ounces with #92 (T90) thread. Once you exceed 6 ounces you can use #138 thread.

The above advice pertains to hiding the "knots" inside the layers so they are not visible from either side.

Choose the smallest leather point needle that will do the job. Smaller holes make for tighter stitches and knots that stay inside the layers.

[arz]

@Wizcrafts Thank you! Very helpful advice. So it seems the Alder 269 might be overkill for what I need. Do you know what the max thread size is for a Adler 69?

I am very familiar with saddle stitching buy not machine. I want the best looking stitch I can get, a slanted stitch if possible. I think I can get that with a machine if I use the correct needle????

[arz]

1 hour ago, Wizcrafts said:

#138 thread might be a little too big to bury the lockstitch knots inside 2 to 3 ounces of leather. I would recommend using #69 (T70) for thicknesses below a combined 4 ounces. You can fill the gap between 4 - 6 ounces with #92 (T90) thread. Once you exceed 6 ounces you can use #138 thread.

The above advice pertains to hiding the "knots" inside the layers so they are not visible from either side.

Choose the smallest leather point needle that will do the job. Smaller holes make for tighter stitches and knots that stay inside the layers.

When you say 2-3oz do you mean total thickness? The minimum combined thickness we use is around 4-5oz (sewing wallet pockets etc.), max around 10-12oz (2 layers of 2mm (5oz) leather. 

So would #92 thread be good for a total of 10-12oz? Or would #138 be better? I realize some of this is personal preference, look, machine etc.

[Wizcrafts]

3 minutes ago, arz said:

When you say 2-3oz do you mean total thickness? The minimum combined thickness we use is around 4-5oz (sewing wallet pockets etc.), max around 10-12oz (2 layers of 2mm (5oz) leather. 

So would #92 thread be good for a total of 10-12oz? Or would #138 be better? I realize some of this is personal preference, look, machine etc.

Doh! I misunderstood you and mistook millimeters for ounces. I thought you meant the total thickness at the seams was 2 ounces. That would be like the interiors I make out of thin calf skin or pig skin.

If the total sewing thickness is 4-5 ounces, use #92 thread. For 10-12 ounces, use #138, using a #22 or #23 needle. The density of the leather will dictate the minimum needle size.

[Wizcrafts]

You should test sew on the machines you are looking at. Buy some thread and bring a sample wallet to test on the machine. The dealer should have any size of needle in stock, up to a #23.

[arz]

@wizcraft Thanks! I will wait and see if anyone knows about the Adler 269. I have heard it is a great machine. It is kinda rare around here, that is why I am thinking of getting this one. However, I don't want to spend $500 and then find out I have to put $1000+ in it  My old skiving machine worked out great though. I paid $250 for it with a vacuum etc. It works great!

The problem I have found is the cheaper used and new machine only go up to about #69-96. That would be an Adler 69, Juki 245, Pfaff 335, and the clones that I can find locally. If money was not an issue I would just go buy a Adler/Durkopp 669 and be done with it. Maybe one day!

[Wizcrafts]

If money is really not an issue, ask your Adler approved dealer about the new Adler 869. I played with that machine at a place called Weaver Leather, in the USA. It is unreal! It can handle up to #207 thread. The lift ratio of the alternating feet can be changed by turning a big knob on top of the machine.

[Uwe]

Out of the machines you're considering, I'm voting for the Adler 269 - they are seriously nice sewing machines and are comfortable sewing the things you want to sew. The thick arm on the Adler 269 has room for full motion feed dog mechanism and a vertical axis hook, which I prefer.  It's not overkill for what you want to sew, but rather "just right," in my opinion.

Adler 69 and Pfaff 335 have thinner arms, which is great if you absolutely need it, but they usually have feed dogs that only go back and forth but not up and down.

 

[dikman]

" I am very familiar with saddle stitching buy not machine. I want the best looking stitch I can get, a slanted stitch if possible. I think I can get that with a machine if I use the correct needle???? "

Be aware that the results you get with a machine won't look as good as hand stitching, particularly on the reverse side. It's a characteristic of the needle punching through the leather.

[arz]

@dikman Thanks! I have heard the stitch is not as good looking. I will go do a test to see if it is good enough for what we want. Even if we use it for turned bags, hidden pockets etc. I think we will need it in time. I can only hand sew so fast....