Weight of Landis 1 with stand?

[Mark842]

Hi Folks,

 I purchased a Landis 1 with stand that is out of state. I'm having a friend that lives local pick it for me. He has access to man power or machinery. any idea what the weight is on this beast? Can two man handle it onto a trailer or am I telling him to throw the forklift on the trailer?

[Alexis1234]

2 guys can load it on a trailer

 

[Big Sioux Saddlery]

Don't quote me on it, but I think the total weight is around 600 lbs.  I do know that two men can't handle it UNLESS you split it.  Then, two good men (on a good day) can handle the head and the stand separately.  Your machine looks to be nicely original.  I have several; it was the first machine that I ever owned that actually sewed, and they can do a darn good job if set up properly and the operator knows how to use it.

Edit: Original documentation states that the machine weighs about 600 lbs crated.  So still over 500 lbs without the crate.

Edited July 27, 2018 by Big Sioux Saddlery

[Mark842]

8 hours ago, Big Sioux Saddlery said:

Don't quote me on it, but I think the total weight is around 600 lbs.  I do know that two men can't handle it UNLESS you split it.  Then, two good men (on a good day) can handle the head and the stand separately.  Your machine looks to be nicely original.  I have several; it was the first machine that I ever owned that actually sewed, and they can do a darn good job if set up properly and the operator knows how to use it.

Edit: Original documentation states that the machine weighs about 600 lbs crated.  So still over 500 lbs without the crate.

Thank you. That was about what I was figuring. I'm planning on splitting it and will have 3 people available to load.

[Big Sioux Saddlery]

6 hours ago, Mark842 said:

Thank you. That was about what I was figuring. I'm planning on splitting it and will have 3 people available to load.

They will get along fine.  Make sure not to remove the wire from the machine that is attached to the presser foot lift.  Leave it tied to the machine and unhook it from the foot pedal.  if it is cut off up high, it's a bugger to get in and tie a new wire on.  Good luck!  I'd like to hear how you get along with it once you get it home and set up.

[Mark842]

Thanks for the tip. I'm going in blind on this one. Decided to drive out for the pick up so heading down to Las Vegas this morning for a 16 hour turn around. The seller inherited it from their Dad who passed years ago and knows nothing about it. They also had a pearson # 6 that they sold. I missed that one, didn't see the listing for it on eBay or I would have went for both. I got the Landis for $500 and someone else got the Pearson for $500. While I think I got a good deal and think the guy that won the Pearson got a better deal!

 I collect cool old machines like this. It will be a bonus if it works. I don't even know if it has any needles or bobbin(s) yet...

[Big Sioux Saddlery]

5 hours ago, Mark842 said:

Thanks for the tip. I'm going in blind on this one. Decided to drive out for the pick up so heading down to Las Vegas this morning for a 16 hour turn around. The seller inherited it from their Dad who passed years ago and knows nothing about it. They also had a pearson # 6 that they sold. I missed that one, didn't see the listing for it on eBay or I would have went for both. I got the Landis for $500 and someone else got the Pearson for $500. While I think I got a good deal and think the guy that won the Pearson got a better deal!

 I collect cool old machines like this. It will be a bonus if it works. I don't even know if it has any needles or bobbin(s) yet...

The guy that got the Pearson stole it!  If the #1 is a tight machine, that is a good deal.  Bobbins are not horribly hard to find.  You can get new needles for them, but the old stock needles are SO much better in design.  I too collect some of this old machinery.  Every time I come home with a pickup load, my teenage son rolls his eyes and asks "WHY can't you collect spoons or shot glasses??!"  Of course since he is my last one left at home, he usually gets stuck helping me unload.  Keep us updated and good luck!

[Mark842]

On 7/28/2018 at 7:33 AM, Big Sioux Saddlery said:

Every time I come home with a pickup load, my teenage son rolls his eyes and asks "WHY can't you collect spoons or shot glasses??!"

Because sewing machines are cooler that spoons! Any chance you have an owner manual for this beast on PDF? Got it home now. It has two bobbin cases and bobbins that came with it and there is one needle in it. I can turn it and everything moves but it is super stiff. According to the woman I purchased it from, it was her Dads and has been sitting for 50+ years. I'd like to get some documentation on it so i don't screw anything up and then start going through it and give it a restoration. Get it cleaned up and lubed up and I think it will be a working machine.

[Big Sioux Saddlery]

10 minutes ago, Mark842 said:

Because sewing machines are cooler that spoons! Any chance you have an owner manual for this beast on PDF? Got it home now. It has two bobbin cases and bobbins that came with it and there is one needle in it. I can turn it and everything moves but it is super stiff. According to the woman I purchased it from, it was her Dads and has been sitting for 50+ years. I'd like to get some documentation on it so i don't screw anything up and then start going through it and give it a restoration. Get it cleaned up and lubed up and I think it will be a working machine.

I will see what I can find for you on the manuals.  There isn't a whole lot of info in it, but it would still be good to have one.  You have gotten an extra shuttle, not just a bobbin case!  That is worth a lot if it is in good condition!  I would not attempt to turn the machine over much before really cleaning up all the moving parts and oiling well. Non-detergent 30w oil is good for these heavy, vintage machines.  The Landis #1s are very simple in their construction.  A couple of "do's and don'ts" to get you started:  Flush all the moving parts with diesel fuel or kerosene to get any accumulated dirt, grime, old wax cleaned out.  If there is a good pricker foot in the machine, don't let it come down to contact the needle plate.  Oil EVERY moving part EXCEPT where the lifting dog grabs the presser foot bar.  That area must be kept free of oil or it will slip.  I spray mine occasionally with electrical contact cleaner.  When putting heavy work under the foot, don't lift the foot all in one motion;  step up by putting smaller pieces under and letting the lifting dog take a new bit on the bar.  You can easily break the flat spring (yes I've done it) by lifting too much in one bite.  The needle guide bushing must fit snug on the needle.  This is one of the most important things to doing good work on this machine, especially with the smaller needle sizes.  Eli Schlabach(?) not sure on the spelling of his last name, but he has Landis sales and Service in Illinois.  He may have parts, needles and guide bushings.  He is Amish but has a phone #.  It is the same number as the old Mast Harness Hardware Shop. I used to know it be memory.  Run the machine slow, and it will sew forever. A couple parts that are subject to wear more than the others is the feed dog arm and the little odd shaped piece that lies under the needle plate and helps form the loop for the shuttle.  The name escapes me, but eventually a groove will wear into it from the needle and you won't be able to adjust it anymore without springing it into the shuttle race, which is very bad.  Someone who does welding on fine stuff can rebuild both of those parts, if it is done before it gets too bad.  Make sure you keep oil on the needle bar where it slides up and down.  A loose needle bar will not allow you to do good work, no matter how good the rest of the machine is.  As you can tell, I have quite a fondness for the old #1's!  They are capable of better work than any new Chinese clone, provided they are tight and set up right. Both harnesses in the pictures were sewn on a #1, as were countless other sets of harness and saddles before I acquired other machines.  I still sew almost all of my traces on a #1.

[Mark842]

Awesome! thinks for the info and the help. I've actually found an owners manual online in PDF that warned me to oil everything except the part you mentioned. Like everything else the shuttles and bobbins are dirty. When I picked it up the one shuttle was sitting on the tray out of the machine and I grabbed it, said Yes, it's here and put it in my pocket. After unloading it at home and looking it over, I slid open the (bobbin case area?) and there was another shuttle and bobbin in there that actually looks pretty clean compared to the other. Not sure what a good pricker foot should feel like but the foot on there definitely has some pricks on the bottom of it. the machine is still threaded from the last time it was used 50+ years ago but geez...that thread looks like rope!. Guess I'm going to have to source some smaller sized needles and I'm assuming from your tack pic's you can run modern machine thread through it , probably 277 to 346? I usually buy bonded nylon from Superior thread for my other machines.

 Your getting me pretty excited looking at how nice the stitching looks on your harnesses. I was buying this with the possibility of it just being a corner show piece but I think I have a complete sewing machine minus bobbin winder but I'm sure I can devise a method to wind them.

[Big Sioux Saddlery]

Both of those shuttles definitely look useable.  The main thing we find with them is that they won't hold tension on lighter threads anymore.  That is due to a groove worn in the tension spring.  That can be remedied, again by a very, VERY skilled welder or machinist.  I've used down to a 207 in the bobbin, and sewed 9 to the inch with an old stock fine needle.  I don't think anything is available today smaller than a #200; Aaron Martin in Canada may have 180's.  But if the machine is tight, you should be able to sew with a 277 thread and #200 needle with no problem at all, and yes I have always used nylon or poly thread.  These machines are less picky about their thread than many modern machines.  I have some bonded nylon that my 441 machine hates, but the #1 has no problems with it.  A word about the modern needles:  They are not identical to the old stock needles.  The kerf extends further down the needle and inhibits sewing much over a half inch without pinching the thread off between the kerf and the guide bushing.  Guys that say they have no trouble with it are using too big of a bushing.  I grind down the kerf so that it more closely resembles the old stock needles, and then grind a thread groove.  I will try to get some pics of original and modern needles, and you will see what I mean.  The machine was made to sew at least 3/4".

[Mark842]

8 minutes ago, Big Sioux Saddlery said:

Both of those shuttles definitely look useable.  The main thing we find with them is that they won't hold tension on lighter threads anymore.  That is due to a groove worn in the tension spring.  That can be remedied, again by a very, VERY skilled welder or machinist.  I've used down to a 207 in the bobbin, and sewed 9 to the inch with an old stock fine needle.  I don't think anything is available today smaller than a #200; Aaron Martin in Canada may have 180's.  But if the machine is tight, you should be able to sew with a 277 thread and #200 needle with no problem at all, and yes I have always used nylon or poly thread.  These machines are less picky about their thread than many modern machines.  I have some bonded nylon that my 441 machine hates, but the #1 has no problems with it.  A word about the modern needles:  They are not identical to the old stock needles.  The kerf extends further down the needle and inhibits sewing much over a half inch without pinching the thread off between the kerf and the guide bushing.  Guys that say they have no trouble with it are using too big of a bushing.  I grind down the kerf so that it more closely resembles the old stock needles, and then grind a thread groove.  I will try to get some pics of original and modern needles, and you will see what I mean.  The machine was made to sew at least 3/4".

Thank you for the help...I'll try not to bug you too much. This will probably wind up being my winter project as I'm swamped with orders this time of year and it usually does not let up till mid October. I probably will only get to mess with it an hour here and there till then but i'm thinking I want to do at least a mild restoration.

[plinkercases]

Not to hijack but.... would a Landis #1 that has been in use and well maintained for $1700 CDN be a good deal? ... It would have to ship so there is that cost to consider.

I just don't have an order of magnitude value for these old machines...

And I deal with Aaron Martin Harness and they are great to deal with. The brother (literally and as Mennonites) company Harness Hardware is also great to deal with. remember you come out way ahead on the exchange rate when dealing us Canucks.

[Big Sioux Saddlery]

3 hours ago, plinkercases said:

remember you come out way ahead on the exchange rate when dealing us Canucks.

Only when buying! Haha. . . it sucks when selling horses up there! 

 

$1700 Canadian would be about $1300 US, and it just depends.  I have never paid more than $1000 for one, and my highest priced one also happened to be the most worn out one.  It isn't uncommon to see them sell on auctions for $400-$600, and of those they are typically either pretty worn, or stuck and have been unused for the last 50+ years.  There doesn't seem to be an in-between in my area. Location can make a big difference on price, as well as the number of accessories that come with it.  If there is a bobbin winder, set of feet, work guides and needles and bushings that come with the machine, and it's good and tight, that isn't a bad price.  if it shows a lot of wear, and there are no accessories, I would say it's too high.  As with everything else, the flood of Chinese machines has softened the market. 

I would honestly rather buy a machine that has been sitting for 50-75 years and has little wear, even if it doesn't turn completely over, than one that has been in use.  Almost nobody oils these machines like they should be oiled, and it makes me shudder when I'm at an auction and there's a good old machine, but dirty and dry as heck, and everyone and their brother walks up to it and turns it over to see if it works. 

Edited July 30, 2018 by Big Sioux Saddlery

[plinkercases]

Thanks for the info. I will pass on this since it also has to be shipped.

 

[johnv474]

For anyone else browsing this thread, I moved one of these from a garage to a store.  It took all of three young able-bodied men to tilt this machine onto the handtruck, and it took all three to push it up the ramp on a low trailer.  Be sure it is strapped down well because they are heavy but also somewhat topheavy.

[Mark842]

I unbolted the head from the stand, backed my pickup up to the stand and was able to slide the head right onto the tailgate of the truck by myself. Then I grabbed the bottom of the stand while leaning the top against the tailgate and lifted and tilted it right in. Took it out the same way in reverse. I estimate the head at about 200-250lbs and the stand a little more. I think to lift and carry it in two pieces two adults that are reasonably in good shape could carry each piece.

[Alexis1234]

Yes, they can- I should have clarified that in my first response. My husband and I moved one that way.