New Thread Company Advice

[ScoobyNewbie]

Cheaper? More colors? Braided? Waxed? Sign me up!

[Garyspruill]

Hey ScoobyNewbie

Understood, this is exactly how I feel

Working with (3) companies right now to have it made.

Have some high standards for them to hit for both hand sew and machine sew.

I see you are from Omaha! Cool, lived there for 7 winters :-) 132nd and Fort area (actually 128th and Fort), lived on the north side of Fort on 128th st.

If you want to try some, PM me and will send some samples out at your address. Note: its in raw format right now, no coloring.

I have some 1.2mm here that is in sample format. 

I have already tried a bunch of lines with it, yet know, this is the first group.

Gary

[LetterT]

Seeing a few new players in the field from China (Amy Roke for linen, polyester and linen/cotton blend, MeiSi for linen, fluorescent and color changing, Wuta as a decent quality at low price option) it looks like there is room for anyone willing to bring in something new to the filed. Good luck, I will be keeping an eye on this thread (pun unintended).

 

[Garyspruill]

41 minutes ago, LetterT said:

Seeing a few new players in the field from China (Amy Roke for linen, polyester and linen/cotton blend, MeiSi for linen, fluorescent and color changing, Wuta as a decent quality at low price option) it looks like there is room for anyone willing to bring in something new to the filed. Good luck, I will be keeping an eye on this thread (pun unintended).

 

Thanks LetterT

I am working with (3) companies right now.

1 in Germany, 1 in France and the last one is in Harligen, TX

Which ever one can or does meet what I am asking for and can get the ($) in line to have a workable margin, is the company I am going to be using to have it made. I reached out to the Asian market, and quickly learned: (Texan): this ain't the way to go! The high end companies are all asking for a (+)(-) 5% tolerance, I am working on less than 2%. The Asian market wanted close to 15%?

 

Good pun!

 

Thanks

Gary

[ScoobyNewbie]

Gretna, Elkhorn, La Vista! For the win Alex! Lol. 

[NVLeatherWorx]

So, Gary, I have done an item using the 1.2 thread that you sent to me and have some observations on it and how it works out.  I have provided these images as well so you can see how it turned out.

One of the first things that I noticed about this thread is that the wax content is very low when compared to some of the more popular threads that many of us are using; you had made mention that this was one of your areas of concern for the smaller threads and I agree with you when you said that it can be done because we all know that it has.  The next thing I noticed about the thread was that it was more rounded than flat (actually oval shaped if you want to get specific) and the braiding patter is identical to Tiger Thread (I broke some of it down and compared it to the Tiger), right down to the strand count (yup, I took my time).  Makes me wonder if this thread has a former member of the Ritza production team onboard and that they are trying to put some direct competition on them; but, that is for others to worry about if it is needed.  One key thing of note that I picked up on right away though was this thread did not try bind or twist itself around like many other threads do which made being able to complete a run a bit less time consuming.  Due to the size of the thread I had to set a stitching groove on each side of the project but the groove was not very deep and once the thread was laid in it was flush with the primary surface; laid in real well indeed.

So, to combat the lack of wax I gave it a couple pulls across my organic pure beeswax block (most other beeswax blocks for waxing thread also contain Paraffin wax which gets clunky on the thread) and it glided right through the leather; I actually punched smaller holes than I normally would just to test it to the limits of ease of use and I was quite impressed.

Now, if you are able to get the producer of this thread to give you the sizes, colors, spool sizes, and pricing that will allow to at least come up even with the cost per yard for Tiger Thread, you might be onto something and be able to make a go of it.  However, the manufacturer would have to get the wax content a bit heavier and they would have to be able to keep you supplied so that we can get the product when we need it (this is sometimes an issue with Tiger Thread and I have had to wait for a few weeks on occasion for my thread; time is money and none of us can afford to lose either).

Overall, I was quite impressed with the sample that you sent and would be very anxious to see what else this manufacturer can provide you.  I will also tell you this, if the other manufacturers are not at least equaling the quality of this 1.2 thread you need to determine whether or not they are capable of doing so and, if not, just ending all further communications and project coordination with them.

Now, here are the pictures of the simple project that I did with this thread and take note of how the stitches line up and lay down in the shallow grooves.

 

[Garyspruill]

On 8/19/2018 at 3:33 PM, NVLeatherWorx said:

So, Gary, I have done an item using the 1.2 thread that you sent to me and have some observations on it and how it works out.  I have provided these images as well so you can see how it turned out.

One of the first things that I noticed about this thread is that the wax content is very low when compared to some of the more popular threads that many of us are using; you had made mention that this was one of your areas of concern for the smaller threads and I agree with you when you said that it can be done because we all know that it has.  The next thing I noticed about the thread was that it was more rounded than flat (actually oval shaped if you want to get specific) and the braiding patter is identical to Tiger Thread (I broke some of it down and compared it to the Tiger), right down to the strand count (yup, I took my time).  Makes me wonder if this thread has a former member of the Ritza production team onboard and that they are trying to put some direct competition on them; but, that is for others to worry about if it is needed.  One key thing of note that I picked up on right away though was this thread did not try bind or twist itself around like many other threads do which made being able to complete a run a bit less time consuming.  Due to the size of the thread I had to set a stitching groove on each side of the project but the groove was not very deep and once the thread was laid in it was flush with the primary surface; laid in real well indeed.

So, to combat the lack of wax I gave it a couple pulls across my organic pure beeswax block (most other beeswax blocks for waxing thread also contain Paraffin wax which gets clunky on the thread) and it glided right through the leather; I actually punched smaller holes than I normally would just to test it to the limits of ease of use and I was quite impressed.

Now, if you are able to get the producer of this thread to give you the sizes, colors, spool sizes, and pricing that will allow to at least come up even with the cost per yard for Tiger Thread, you might be onto something and be able to make a go of it.  However, the manufacturer would have to get the wax content a bit heavier and they would have to be able to keep you supplied so that we can get the product when we need it (this is sometimes an issue with Tiger Thread and I have had to wait for a few weeks on occasion for my thread; time is money and none of us can afford to lose either).

Overall, I was quite impressed with the sample that you sent and would be very anxious to see what else this manufacturer can provide you.  I will also tell you this, if the other manufacturers are not at least equaling the quality of this 1.2 thread you need to determine whether or not they are capable of doing so and, if not, just ending all further communications and project coordination with them.

Now, here are the pictures of the simple project that I did with this thread and take note of how the stitches line up and lay down in the shallow grooves.

 

NVLeatherWorx

Just sent you a PM

Thank you so much for testing this

Gary 

[Garyspruill]

I need to ask a quick question due to my personal ignorance,

Again, working with the thread companies.

For leather Sewing Machine thread:

My folks are asking me a question and wanted to come to the experts for the real skinny:

The question on the table to me is: do you want: "S" twist or "Z" twist??

Dealing with a poly bonded material, does it make a difference if it is twisted left (S vs Z) or right for our leather sewing machine foils?? Just a reminder: I normally sew all my projects by hand, hence the reason I am asking this very question.

They are offering me sizes from a V46 all the way up to the V500's

Any help would be greatful

 

Gary

[LetterT]

I do no have a sawing machine so...

It is my understanding that for hand sawing the preferred twist is S (right hand as most people are right handed) and for the sawing machine the preferred twist is Z (opposite of hand sawing). I remember that simply by S twist for right hand sawing and "the other" twist is for the machines.

[Garyspruill]

10 hours ago, LetterT said:

I do no have a sawing machine so...

It is my understanding that for hand sawing the preferred twist is S (right hand as most people are right handed) and for the sawing machine the preferred twist is Z (opposite of hand sawing). I remember that simply by S twist for right hand sawing and "the other" twist is for the machines.

Thank you

[Seamus76]

18 hours ago, LetterT said:

I do no have a sawing machine so...

It is my understanding that for hand sawing the preferred twist is S (right hand as most people are right handed) and for the sawing machine the preferred twist is Z (opposite of hand sawing). I remember that simply by S twist for right hand sawing and "the other" twist is for the machines.

I just bought a Consew 206RB-5 and looking in the owners manual it says:

"THREAD:

Cotton, synthetic or silk thread can be used according to your purpose.

*Always use left twisted thread for upper (needle) thread, but you can use either right or left twisted thread for lower (bobbin) thread."

 

I have alwasy been a hand sewer, but just bought this machine last week to use on larger items such as totes, etc., plus I got an amazing deal on it.  I have used Maine Thread Waxed Poly since I started, but for the last year have been using Japanese Vinymo thread for a lot of my projects.  It's beautiful thread, vibrant, and soft to the touch.  It's unwaxed, which I don't mind becuase I have my own wax and don't mind waxing it.  That's what she said.  And since it's unwaxed it can be used on my machine as well.  I like the ruggedness of Maine but it can be too waxy sometimes, which is a common "complaint" about it, but I don't mind that too much.  Vinymo comes in tons of colors as well, which is really great.  It's also available in large and small spools for US based suppliers.  

Hope that helps a bit.

[Garyspruill]

6 hours ago, Seamus76 said:

I just bought a Consew 206RB-5 and looking in the owners manual it says:

"THREAD:

Cotton, synthetic or silk thread can be used according to your purpose.

*Always use left twisted thread for upper (needle) thread, but you can use either right or left twisted thread for lower (bobbin) thread."

 

I have alwasy been a hand sewer, but just bought this machine last week to use on larger items such as totes, etc., plus I got an amazing deal on it.  I have used Maine Thread Waxed Poly since I started, but for the last year have been using Japanese Vinymo thread for a lot of my projects.  It's beautiful thread, vibrant, and soft to the touch.  It's unwaxed, which I don't mind becuase I have my own wax and don't mind waxing it.  That's what she said.  And since it's unwaxed it can be used on my machine as well.  I like the ruggedness of Maine but it can be too waxy sometimes, which is a common "complaint" about it, but I don't mind that too much.  Vinymo comes in tons of colors as well, which is really great.  It's also available in large and small spools for US based suppliers.  

Hope that helps a bit.

It does and thank you,

 

[Garyspruill]

Just an update,

We were working with three companies to help design and make the thread that we wanted. That number has been narrowed down to one company now.

We are in the process of picking out colors (that is a pain) to best suit the needs of leather user's. We are allowed up to 30 colors, yet to help us, we are most likely to narrow it down to around 25.

We also have folks that are on this very forum testing different generations of trial and error of the product to insure it is in my words, perfect.

The gen 1 model, did not have the correct thread count in the braid, that has been fixed.

Gen 2 and gen 3 did not have the correct amount of "wax" in-on the thread, this has been discussed and fixed with the mfg.

Gen 4, I have here with me and is now being tested and re-tested to insure the quality that is to be expected.

Once all approve the product (me) and others, then the colors need to be picked out - tweaked - and ordered

Once all this is done, then comes the website - looking at different e-commerce platforms, wordpress, opencart, and others to provide the best shopping experience possible. Already working on images and backgrounds and videos for the website. 

While all this is happening, we are also working on the sewing machine thread, edge paint, and hand tools.

I so badly want to announce the name of the new company, but by advice of the legal eagles, they want all the paperwork done - stamped and in their hands before I do. Sorry? Some know it already by me, once all is done, will announce it. Cool??

 

Just wanted to update all that are following this process - journey!

 

Gary

[bikermutt07]

I will add a little for the marketing end....

Once you get your product to market, send some to Nigel at Armitage Leather.

If he likes it, you may have an overnight success.

On another note, I would just like to take a minute to say how happy I am to see @NVLeatherWorx back here on this site. Sir, you and your wisdom have been missed. Thanks for coming back.

[Garyspruill]

4 hours ago, bikermutt07 said:

I will add a little for the marketing end....

Once you get your product to market, send some to Nigel at Armitage Leather.

If he likes it, you may have an overnight success.

On another note, I would just like to take a minute to say how happy I am to see @NVLeatherWorx back here on this site. Sir, you and your wisdom have been missed. Thanks for coming back.

bikermutt07,

Thank you for the advice. I agree with you. I have already been in contact with him via emails back and forth in the UK. He is a stout supporter of Tiger Thread, yet is open to others, have taken notes from him (his emails) and passed them along to my mfg's. Huge help. Once all is 100%, I can promise: he is getting a case :-) to try out any darn thing he wants.

I never knew NVLeatherWorx was missing. Meet Mr. Richard in the last month. Have to agree with you, tons of knowledge there. He is helping me out a ton on this project and I am saying "Thank you" for it!

I noticed you are from Bossier/Shreveport, love that city(s). It depends on who you talk to so you have to include both of them. :-)

Thanks again for the advise, I am absorbing all of it.

 

 

Gary

[Garyspruill]

I just checked my PM messages, had a super nice person ask me to show them the gen 4 results of this project: thread

I really do not know how to do this except through photos, so,,,,, I ran a line of some for review.

Spec's: JJ 002 needle, Crimson Hide Pricking Irons 4.0, my thread: flat waxed braided poly - 1.0mm (can't disclose the company name yet), color: Cigar, Wicket & Craig 4 oz black bridle leather.

Tried to get good photos of the thread and how it lays in the photos

Any comments - critique - advice would be grateful!

Gary 

Edited August 30, 2018 by Garyspruill

[LetterT]

It is hard to judge by the photos only but from what I can see - looks good.

The photos a bit low resolution, I can not zoom them in very much. You might consider getting a highres photos. If it is not possible to posting them here consider external place like flickr or other image hosting.

When you get the brand name and colors and all that settled consider a stitching run of different thread thickness next to each other on a nice piece of vegtan (maybe darker colored for light color threads). I am always surprised by the fact the thread brands/companies never seem to post any photos how the thread look on a piece of leather. There are plenty of photos of threads and spools but on an actual piece of leather - nothing. Luckily we have a place like leatherworker for that but still...

And you can also make a nice thread sample book, something like this:

(shamelessly taken of MeiSi thread Instagram account - meisi108, you should check it out, there are some good photos and even short videos of the factory production process)

 

Edited August 30, 2018 by LetterT

[bikermutt07]

Yeah, people from outta state don't know ab9it Bossier. So, ya have to say Shreveport. I once had some one ask me " how do you get around down there?". Asked what he meant by that. He said, " well isn't it all swamp?" I said, man we have roads. For the record, much of upper Louisiana is basically like East Texas.

Also, I am a transplant here. I grew up in Ellis County south of Dallas.

If you have ever noticed that big three story limestone building over looking Eagle Mountain Lake from the southeast side, I personally built and installed the cedar trusses on the front of that building.

[Garyspruill]

1 hour ago, bikermutt07 said:

Yeah, people from outta state don't know ab9it Bossier. So, ya have to say Shreveport. I once had some one ask me " how do you get around down there?". Asked what he meant by that. He said, " well isn't it all swamp?" I said, man we have roads. For the record, much of upper Louisiana is basically like East Texas.

Also, I am a transplant here. I grew up in Ellis County south of Dallas.

If you have ever noticed that big three story limestone building over looking Eagle Mountain Lake from the southeast side, I personally built and installed the cedar trusses on the front of that building.

Me: originally from West TX, Odessa. 

Understood about the Shreveport mention. I go there and head to N. Market St.: Shreveport is the capital of East TX if not mistaken?? 

I know exactly the building you mention, I live in Azle about 1/4 mile from Eagle Mountain Lake. 

[Garyspruill]

6 hours ago, LetterT said:

It is hard to judge by the photos only but from what I can see - looks good.

The photos a bit low resolution, I can not zoom them in very much. You might consider getting a highres photos. If it is not possible to posting them here consider external place like flickr or other image hosting.

When you get the brand name and colors and all that settled consider a stitching run of different thread thickness next to each other on a nice piece of vegtan (maybe darker colored for light color threads). I am always surprised by the fact the thread brands/companies never seem to post any photos how the thread look on a piece of leather. There are plenty of photos of threads and spools but on an actual piece of leather - nothing. Luckily we have a place like leatherworker for that but still...

And you can also make a nice thread sample book, something like this:

(shamelessly taken of MeiSi thread Instagram account - meisi108, you should check it out, there are some good photos and even short videos of the factory production process)

 

Going to make a second attempt at this.

Just did these 4 lines.

 

[bikermutt07]

@Garyspruill , that building was such a pain. My boss farmed me out to the superintendent and I cut, drilled, and assembled those trusses by myself with the help of a skytrack. The super and I set them in one day with a crane operator. I've got stories about that building.

I also worked the Alon ( big spring) plant in 2008. I was there on day 8 after the explosion.

[chrisash]

I would suggest the o.4, 0.5 & 0.6 sizes might be a better market to break into rather than the larger sizes

[Garyspruill]

1 hour ago, chrisash said:

I would suggest the o.4, 0.5 & 0.6 sizes might be a better market to break into rather than the larger sizes

chrisash,

Man do I agree with you on that one. The company I am working with, all but refuse to make it below 0.80?? NVLeatherWorx explained it to me the why they wont but, still working on that one.

[LetterT]

I can not claim to know the market but if I see how many people are making wallets and bags compared to how many people are making saddles - you need smaller sizes for majority of people.

[Garyspruill]

4 hours ago, LetterT said:

I can not claim to know the market but if I see how many people are making wallets and bags compared to how many people are making saddles - you need smaller sizes for majority of people.

I am agreeing with you.

I am also going back and forth with the mfg about it as well, just have not won the argument "yet"