colt officer dummies

[Bolt Vanderhuge]

Ok I measured a few more. Mold gun is 1.544" (39.22mm). Para officer 1.543". 4" Springfield 1.534". 5" Colt 1.530". Colt Defender 1.520". Ruger commander 1.530. 5" STI 1.510. Dan Wesson CCO (the earlier gun) 1.524". A second DW CCO 1.525. DW Guardian  1.531". DW vbob 1.522". 5" Sig 1.515". Sig commander 1.515". Rock Island commander 1.507".

My other 2 officers have tri-topped slides from the factory so they have different slide top dimensions. But even so, they do not wiggle in my holsters. The transition lines from the slide top to the sides is still in the same place so it still has a contoured feature on the top and bottom of the gun that matches close enough to that of the mold gun. But then again my mold gun is the same size as the gun at the top of the size range from the 13 I measured. Yours measures 1.563" so it is a slightly larger difference.  It is 0.056" taller than my shortest one and 0.20" taller than my talest one. 

Edited December 4, 2018 by Bolt Vanderhuge

[JLSleather]

10 minutes ago, Bolt Vanderhuge said:

Yours measures 1.563" so it is a slightly larger difference.  It is 0.056" taller than my shortest one and 0.20" taller than my talest one. 

Well, yah.. that's what I said   

 

[Bolt Vanderhuge]

Like I said earlier just sand it down the tiny amount. This is a very fixable issue.

[JLSleather]

I don't "fix" molds (though I have been known to add .020" build up to make one fit less snug).  So, then -- anybody got one of these they aren't currently using?  I wanna BORROW it, check it.  No desire to spend $60, $60, $60 ..... only to find out that none of them measures correctly.

https://www.knifekits.com/vcom/cooks-molds-holster-molding-prop-for-sig-sauer-1911-42in-rail-natural-p-13500.html

Loan me the gun, get back the gun and the pattern ...

Trying to give Cook's a bit of optimism here ... benefit of doubt as they say.  Hoping they aren't another one that sells you a piece of steel, calls it a "knife", but says YOU should sharpen it (the nature of being a "knife", it should arrive ready to cut what it is meant to cut).  If they're all oversize, I'd like to know that.  

 

Edited December 13, 2018 by JLSleather

[JLSleather]

No?  Well, at least we know how to end an endless discussion

 

[Lobo]

Colt Officer Model .45 is no more than a compact grip-frame with 3.5" barrel-slide group. With a Colt Defender dummy (3" barrel-slide group) and either a Commander (4.25") or a Government Model (5") it is not difficult to pattern and form most holster designs for the 3.5" Officer Model.

You may already have what you really need, or have easy access to them. Rings Blue Guns are made in the 3", 4.25", and 5" models.

[Stetson912]

The bersa and shield cooks molds I had worked well for me. But then again, I couldn't compare the measurements accurately. Maybe I'll compare to a specific sheet. Be a good reason to get some calipers haha. 

[JLSleather]

28 minutes ago, Stetson912 said:

Be a good reason to get some calipers

Yeah, see that's what I'm talkin' bout.  Wanna make the 3.5" and the gun too far away?  Chop off a bit of a commander mold. 

Or, if somebody make a mold that's correct, then buy and use that.  But you have to have some way of knowing it's correct.  And if you buy a mold, turns out to be OVERSIZE, then maybe you don't use that one and you let others know that the mold is OVERSIZE.  Some will care, some won't

ANybody make those holsters that stitch 1/4"-1/2" away from the gun and rely on the (temporary) stiffness of the leather and the customer not knowing better, then a "close-ish" mold is prolly "good enuf".  But I don't do "good enuf" - and I thought I'd mention that the only 3.5" mold I've seen is OVERSIZE.  If that isn't something that matters to you, just disregard what I said - no problem on my end.

The same thing happens when purchasing leather.  Or sewing machines.  Or hand tools.  You'll have some folks recommending this or that -- and best you can say is the recommendation may or may not be worth the time to hear it.  Some folks lie. Others are sincere enough, but don't really know what they're talking about.  And of course, some just like to comment in a thread whether they have any actual information or not.

So in the end, I have to check for myself.  Good reason to get some calipers

[Lobo]

Those who rely upon the dummy gun makers to provide every possible need for every possible customer demand are sure to be disappointed, and on a regular basis.

Last time I looked (been retired 3 years now) there were less than 100 dummy gun models available from any and all sources, good or bad, or simply indifferent. New gun models hit the market every few weeks these days, but most will never be available as dummies, and those that are offered as dummies are usually a year or so after the new pistol hits the market (the period when holster demand tends to spike).

When I retired I had about 80 dummies in the shop, and 76 actual handguns in the gun safes (GREAT RETIREMENT INVESTMENT!). There were still lots of handguns that I could not offer holsters for because the demand was never sufficient to justify purchasing the gun.

If you think the Colt Officer Model .45 is a big problem, start thinking about holsters for the millions and millions of revolvers still in daily use in North America (and elsewhere). Dummies are generally available for only about a dozen revolvers of all makes and models. But revolvers continue to be at least half of the demand for holsters, largely because the major holster makers have chosen to ignore the revolvers while concentrating their production on current production, high market saturation, semi-autos.

I completely understand the OP's reluctance to do "close-ish" work, or produce "good enuf" holster fitting. But after 43 years in the business I can assure everyone that one either learns to adapt or you learn to step aside.

I have purchased dozens of new firearms, just because the demand was there and it was time to fill orders rather than wait for Rings or Duncans or someone else to produce a dummy. Some worked out well, others became excess space-holders in the gun safes. Nature of the business, we can take it or we can leave it. When the German police transitioned to Sigs and traded in the older H&K P7-PSP pistols by the thousands there was a good demand for holsters over 2 to 3 years, so I dropped a few hundred bucks on a pistol. When the Soviet Union collapsed and Makarov pistols (Soviet, Bulgarian, East German, etc) came in by the boatload there was a good demand for holsters, so I bought one. When the Sig P238 hit the market there was a great demand for holsters, but no dummies, so I bought one. Glock 42? Ditto. Glock 43? Ditto. I could repeat the same lines for dozens of others, but the point is that demand is a matter of market cycles, and we can either ignore those cycles or we can capitalize on those cycles. By the way, I never lost a dime on any of the guns I purchased; after they sat in the safe unused for a few years I was always able to sell them for more than my investment.

Just the Sig P-series pistols could leave a holster maker screaming and pulling his hair out in frustration! Same model number, different slide profiles, trigger guards, tangs, hammers, barrel lengths, and a dozen other variations without even a minor change in model designation! And another new variant announced every month or two!

Enough talking about obscure or limited production guns! None of those ever saw as much use in holster making as my older guns like the S&W Model 39, S&W J-frames, Browning Hi Power, or a dozen others made a generation ago. Yes, I have a Colt Officer Model .45, too, a model that was made for a relatively brief period of years before the Defender line replaced it in the Colt line-up, and one you might have to look for a while to find on the market.

By the way, no one makes dummy guns for holster makers to use in the holster trade. Dummies are made primarily for training of law enforcement and security personnel. The fact that there is demand from holster makers does not drive the market more than a small percentage; if the gun is not current production with a relatively large market share it is very unlikely to show up as a dummy gun.

Ruger and a couple of other gun makers used to offer dummies specifically for holster makers, pistols made up from slight defect parts, welded together (non-functional, thus not actual firearms, but true to actual production dimensions). As recently as 5-6 years ago Sig USA would loan out any pistol in their inventory to accredited holster makers (yes, shipping charges and FFL transfer fees applied), or sell a gun at "distributor price" (below dealer wholesale). For the most part, those deals are either long gone, or the costs involved exceed the price of a single holster order, so not the best option for the small producer.

Duncans will produce cast aluminum dummies from any gun you provide for them, usually requiring a minimum order of 6 to justify producing the molds and making the production run (and this might take a few months). Of course, that requires having the gun in question, paying shipping and transfer charges to and from, etc, thus is not truly viable for a one-of-a-kind order. Even if you can justify the cost of going this route you will still end up with 5 pieces that you will have to sell to regain some of your costs.

For the unusual order you could always ask the customer to provide his handgun. That will only require FFL to FFL transfer both ways, shipping & insurance costs, and you should make sure that your business insurance will cover the property of others while in your custody or under your control. While you are adding up the costs you may want to consider the liability exposures you are assuming ("That scratch on the slide wasn't there when I shipped by $5000 custom-made Super-Frazbat Model XYZ Mark I Mod 2 pistol to you, so you need to replace my gun!!!!).

Past 10-plus years on this forum we have beaten the "dummy gun" dead horse again and again. There is no real or complete solution, and will never be one.

[JazzBass]

@Lobo Read every word, sir.

I am new (1yr) to leatherwork, but an old hand with guns and gunleather. Your real-world account on this subject was quite enlightening. Much appreciated. Much to consider. I'm looking forward to hear how other pros deal with this. "Tools" can be expensive, and must be justified for both the pro, and the hobbyist as well.

[Lobo]

21 minutes ago, JazzBass said:

@Lobo Read every word, sir.

I am new (1yr) to leatherwork, but an old hand with guns and gunleather. Your real-world account on this subject was quite enlightening. Much appreciated. Much to consider. I'm looking forward to hear how other pros deal with this. "Tools" can be expensive, and must be justified for both the pro, and the hobbyist as well.

Thank you, sir. I tend to ramble on from time to time, but 43 years in the business of holster making beat a few lessons into my head, and maybe sharing those lessons will help others trying to find their way along the trail.

Best regards.

[JLSleather]

On 12/15/2018 at 7:35 PM, Lobo said:

less than 100 dummy gun models available from any and all sources

I don't know what the "count" is, but I got better part of a hunnert of 'em here, and there are a bunch I haven't picked up as yet.