Help! I'm reaching the end of my tether!

[Cymro29k3]

On 13/12/2018 at 1:58 PM, Constabulary said:

Hard to tell w/o sitting in front of it and watching the stitch cycle.

Well - when cranking the machine - in the moment the presser foot moves back (for making a new stitch) and touches the needle plate the needle bar should be in its lowest position and should start rising. If this is not the case it "could be" that the pulley cam is in wrong position on the top shaft.

Beside that - I guess you have the stitch length adjuster on the longest stitch right? Make sure the stitch length adjuster is correctly assembled. The squared frame and the gib have a "wedge" which have to be in a positioned correctly. The wedges give the presser foot bar space for its movement (feeding).

Also make sure foot lift mechanism on the backside is correctly assembled and foot pressure is adjusted as low as possible. Position of the foot lift slider on the leaf spring is also important.

I would like to see a pictures of the backside if you don´t mind.

BTW - very special color

 

As you can see, the foot lift lever has long since snapped and I'm struggling to find a replacement as the current one isn't the correct shape for this model, according to the book/manual anyway.

[Constabulary]

the foot lift lever is an early "push down" lever - modern lever do not fit. I only have seen this once - let me check if I find more pictures... you can ask a welder if he could weld a piece of metal on it to endlong the lever.

EDIT:

I once restored a 29K3 with push down lever. This it how it looks when correctly installed - sorry no other picture

I recall it was a bit odd to install it but I do not recall what the problem was. So it could well be that your lever is the correct one - just broken.

 

 

 

 

Edited December 15, 2018 by Constabulary

[Carlosveiga]

lol thats a harsh colour, daaaammm that must stand out in sight. cheaper then a welding job could be a laser cut piece, a small piece like that would cost you 20 bucks and 5 min of work time from the machine. if you d like pm me i can draw you a dxf for you to send to the laser cutting machine shop.

[shoepatcher]

The adjustment on the back of the flat tension spring is set at its lowest position meaning that foot has almost lift.    As Folker stated, Loosen the wing nut and move the block clamp to the left like in Folker's pic.  That will raise the walk height of the foot.  A lift lever from a 29-4 machine should fit yours.

glenn

[Cymro29k3]

13 hours ago, shoepatcher said:

The adjustment on the back of the flat tension spring is set at its lowest position meaning that foot has almost lift.    As Folker stated, Loosen the wing nut and move the block clamp to the left like in Folker's pic.  That will raise the walk height of the foot.  A lift lever from a 29-4 machine should fit yours.

glenn

Hi Glenn and thanks for that. Unfortunately,  it makes no difference if I adjust that wingnut. It does raise the foot but the fabric/leather still doesn't feed. It looks to me like the needle comes down a second or two too early which causes it to pin down the fabric before the foot has finished feeding the fabric through.

[Cymro29k3]

16 hours ago, Carlosveiga said:

lol thats a harsh colour, daaaammm that must stand out in sight. cheaper then a welding job could be a laser cut piece, a small piece like that would cost you 20 bucks and 5 min of work time from the machine. if you d like pm me i can draw you a dxf for you to send to the laser cutting machine shop.

Hahaha yes, it may look a bit harsh but I didn't want to paint her just like all the rest...black! Plus, my printer cannot print the desired shade of gold so I didn't fancy printing new decals in a kind of dirty yellowy/mustard colour! So I printed them in shades of grey!

You know, I have no clue who I could send the file too. I'm certain that nobody does laser cutting around here. Thank you very much though, it was very kind of you to offer the drawing. 

Diolch

Arwel

[Cymro29k3]

On 14/12/2018 at 11:57 PM, Wizcrafts said:

The feed is out of sync with the needle's motion and position. The needle must be completely out of the material for it to feed. your needle is moving down, passing the plane of the foot, as the foot is trying to feed the work! Perhaps a previous owner replaced the cam on the rear of the main shaft with the wrong part number (e.g., cam for long arm machine instead of short arm).

Also, the foot looks like it is not lowering far enough to get a firm grip on the material. It should come closer to the arm with the throat plate swung away and actually drag on the throat plate when it is locked in working position..

You're right, it is out of sync. I don't think the cam has been changed (although I'm no expert of course) and there's a pin that goes through the end of the cam, through the shaft and out the other end of the cam. That looks like it's been there for centuries! But there are marks on the handwheel that look like somebody has been frantically trying to remove the handwheel and the belt pulley...and failed, hence the missing screws and broken heads!! Maybe they were trying to fix this very same problem??

[Constabulary]

I still would guess (as I said in my earlier post - see below) that someone actually did a repair but put on the cam / pulley the wrong way (turned by 180°). Please check my earlier post.

 

[Carlosveiga]

8 hours ago, Cymro29k3 said:

You're right, it is out of sync. I don't think the cam has been changed (although I'm no expert of course) and there's a pin that goes through the end of the cam, through the shaft and out the other end of the cam. That looks like it's been there for centuries! But there are marks on the handwheel that look like somebody has been frantically trying to remove the handwheel and the belt pulley...and failed, hence the missing screws and broken heads!! Maybe they were trying to fix this very same problem??

i spent 1h trying to remove said pin out a machine i own, spent another 2h trying to take out a pin from an inner piece of the machine.  was the hardest part of stripping the machine apart. i also did a pre first pre assembly to check for fittings after a re polish and i ended up installing some of said pulleys the wrong way putting a lot stress on some parts and getting a really awkward timing.  at first it felt it was just lack of oil but i had to assemble it again to get it right. not looking at the machine id say user constabulary might be right, since the same exact thing happened to me. machine "worked" but you could feel a lot of stress on some parts even after oiled up. not smooth at all and it was usually when the shuttle turned around to the original resting position

1i did not open my 29k but there should be a single shaft on the bottom arm correct? and what connects said shaft to the top shaft is the piece on the photo, check if its in this position to see if it wasnt assembled the wrong way. sry for the quality and all the oil.

Edited December 16, 2018 by Carlosveiga

[Cymro29k3]

7 hours ago, Constabulary said:

I still would guess (as I said in my earlier post - see below) that someone actually did a repair but put on the cam / pulley the wrong way (turned by 180°). Please check my earlier post.

 

Thank you so much, constabulary. Do you have any tips for removing the pin? I don't particularly want to start hammering it out!

[Carlosveiga]

look, not trying to discourage you or anything but those wheels have a tendency to lock themselves to work, pull that out and you will find it veeery hard to re mount them properly, if you do id mark the teeth where they align now or you'll be in a lot of pain sanding down teeth to get it working again and good luck not wrecking them. and from previous posts you don't seem to have many parts for that model unlike the k7 models

Did you try first changing the needle like someone said before? did you try pulling out foot presser clean it proper? how did you remove all the old oil? how long was the machine sitting idle before you picked it up? you say you cant produce stitch, you dont pick up bottom thread? are you breaking needles is the material not dragging at all? it looks like a timing issue like a user said true,can you not regulate the timing on a k3? He pointed out how your pressure foot is grinding on something and not going down right. it could be bent to hell by now, and not a wrong assembly. id focus on getting that motion (pressure foot going down to needle plate) smooth and making sure its the RIGHT NEEDLE before starting to open it up.

took me 4 days to get the foot pressure just right on that machine, and its pretty much set up to press the material so hard imma scratch the leather to hell and it still has crappy feed. perhaps there is a reason machines these days got triple feed?

if you do want tips on getting those pins out well, get something with the same size width of said pin, and make sure you wack it the right way!!! he comes out 1 way NOT the other.

[Cymro29k3]

15 minutes ago, Carlosveiga said:

look, not trying to discourage you or anything but those wheels have a tendency to lock themselves to work, pull that out and you will find it veeery hard to re mount them properly, if you do id mark the teeth where they align now or you'll be in a lot of pain sanding down teeth to get it working again and good luck not wrecking them. and from previous posts you don't seem to have many parts for that model unlike the k7 models

Did you try first changing the needle like someone said before? did you try pulling out foot presser clean it proper? how did you remove all the old oil? how long was the machine sitting idle before you picked it up? you say you cant produce stitch, you dont pick up bottom thread? are you breaking needles is the material not dragging at all? it looks like a timing issue like a user said true,can you not regulate the timing on a k3? He pointed out how your pressure foot is grinding on something and not going down right. it could be bent to hell by now, and not a wrong assembly. id focus on getting that motion (pressure foot going down to needle plate) smooth and making sure its the RIGHT NEEDLE before starting to open it up.

took me 4 days to get the foot pressure just right on that machine, and its pretty much set up to press the material so hard imma scratch the leather to hell and it still has crappy feed. perhaps there is a reason machines these days got triple feed?

if you do want tips on getting those pins out well, get something with the same size width of said pin, and make sure you wack it the right way!!! he comes out 1 way NOT the other.

Everything is straight, cleaned and oiled. The parts you mentioned all move fluidly and flawlessly. I am using the correct needles and they have been installed correctly. I'm guessing, for a 116 year old machine that parts are worn and I was expecting that. But I was also expecting her to stitch but it's clear that a previous owner has, most definitely been messing with the machine and trying to remove parts and failed. There are broken screws, missing screws and marks here and there, consistent with my theory.

I don't know how long the machine was standing idle before I got her and the insides were practically bone dry. She isn't producing stitches although she does pick up the bottom thread initially. As I've said before, the problem is with the needle piercing the leather too early, thus stopping the leather from feeding. When I attempt to run the machine with no thread, only 1 hole is produced in the leather because the leather isn't feeding.

I shall try another few suggestions that I've been offered here. Thank you very much for your input.

Arwel.

[Constabulary]

1 hour ago, Cymro29k3 said:

Do you have any tips for removing the pin? I don't particularly want to start hammering it out!

Well, you can do a rain dance and wait until the pin is rusted away or you hammer it out Of course you have to hammer it out - its a pin!

When the needle is in the material and it starts feeding you don´t have many options - the pulley cam is controlling the needle bar and if you want to solve this you have to reposition the cam (that's what I would try) Unfortunately no one knows what the previous owner did with this machine so we all can only guess (just wrong cam position or installed different cam... we all do not know). If you drive out the pin be careful the pin is tapered it will go out only one way (as Carlosveiga mentioned already) . One end of the pin is smaller than the other end - maybe hard to tell now since you have painted the machine already. Usually you do it the other way around - make the machine work and then paint it.

I can´t help more - I explained the cam / needle bar position in an earlier post so it´s up to you if you give it a try or not. No one said it will be easy - a century old machine is not an easy task if parts are gummed or rusted in place and the paint doesn´t make it easier. We all can only give you our opinions... At the end it´s your machinate and you have to decide what you do or don´t do.

You can try it or you leave the machine as is as a more or less decorative boat anchor.

Good luck.

Edited December 16, 2018 by Constabulary

[Cymro29k3]

20 minutes ago, Constabulary said:

Well, you can do a rain dance and wait until the pin is rusted away or you hammer it out Of course you have to hammer it out - its a pin!

When the needle is in the material and it starts feeding you don´t have many options - the pulley cam is controlling the needle bar and if you want to solve this you have to reposition the cam (that's what I would try) Unfortunately no one knows what the previous owner did with this machine so we all can only guess (just wrong cam position or installed different cam... we all do not know). If you drive out the pin be careful the pin is tapered it will go out only one way (as Carlosveiga mentioned already) . One end of the pin is smaller than the other end - maybe hard to tell now since you have painted the machine already. Usually you do it the other way around - make the machine work and then paint it.

I can´t help more - I explained the cam / needle bar position in an earlier post so it´s up to you if you give it a try or not. No one said it will be easy - a century old machine is not an easy task if parts are gummed or rusted in place and the paint doesn´t make it easier. We all can only give you our opinions... At the end it´s your machinate and you have to decide what you do or don´t do.

You can try it or you leave the machine as is as a more or less decorative boat anchor.

Good luck.

Thank you very much for all your help, constabulary. 

Kind regards.

Arwel

[jimi]

Here are a few pictures of my old 29k1/12 frankenstein which is the same year on the bottom and a little younger on top  I have tried to put it in the same position for reference...

[jimi]

Now you will need to compare this with yours Arwel and see what is different. If the screw is broken on the outer cam, i usually get them out by drilling a smaller hole in the middle and then hammer a flat head screwdriver in the hole and turn with that. The other way is screw extractors. You have to be careful when drilling, it can wander off sometimes and ruin the outer thread.In the picture the foot is leaning back (furthest back position).

Edited December 16, 2018 by jimi

[jimi]

And here is the position of the shuttle carrier at the same moment.

 Your shuttle carrier should be in time with your foot when it is at the furthest back position? so what is your needle bar position when this is happening Arwel??

Edited December 16, 2018 by jimi

[Northmount]

If the cam is out 180 degrees, the person that fiddled with it paid no attention to the tapered pin, just lined up the holes and drove the pin in.  Still it has to be driven out by driving on the small end.  Usually, one solid whack will start it moving.  People have been known to drill out tapered pins too!  Then anything can happen!  You can obtain tapered drills to fix it if there is enough meat left to work with.

Tom

[Cymro29k3]

23 minutes ago, jimi said:

And here is the position of the shuttle carrier at the same moment.

 Your shuttle carrier should be in time with your foot when it is at the furthest back position? so what is your needle bar position when this is happening Arwel??

I think my timing is all to cock! 

MOV_1244.mp4

[shoepatcher]

Timing out.

glenn

[Carlosveiga]

jimi your machine is missing part 84113 on the tension disks on your 29k12, i got some with me i sell cheap.

Edited December 16, 2018 by Carlosveiga

[jimi]

10 hours ago, Carlosveiga said:

jimi your machine is missing part 84113 on the tension disks on your 29k12

 well spotted Carlos, but it has a washer, works the same,it is only to keep the two disks level. Thanks for the offer anyway.

Here is a video of the timing for your 29k Arwel, can someone check to see if the video works as i am a bit of a caveman when it comes to uploading videos!

https://www.dropbox.com/s/edbs3kxfl7lpm90/20181216_204005.mp4?dl=0