Backstitch without reverse & freeing material questions

[Sugarkryptonite]

Hi guys

I'm trying to do the techniques shown in Alexander's video here, specifically at time 9:28 where he lifts the foot up and moves it back slightly to sew over the existing stitch:

Whenever I try to do that, I lift up the foot slightly as he did, but the thread feels tight in the material, and I can't move the material back like he does freely, maybe only half the distance that he does if I'm lucky. 

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On another note, when I go to take my material out after a stitch is finished, sometimes I need to rotate the machine by hand until it seems the thread is released in the bobbin case area so that I can pull the material away to cut the threads, that's normal, right? I have to rotate it manually pretty much every time I'm finished a stitch.

If it makes any difference I have a 111W153 which is a walking foot model, unlike the needle feed 111W151 like he's using the in the video.

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Thirdly, is there a way to adjust the tightness of a stitch in material? I have my tensions set perfectly to not have any looping showing, but if I put a pick under a single stitch say in the middle of a stitch I did and I lift it up slightly, that stitch will get slightly looser and stay loose.. Is that just built into the machine or something I can modify?

Edited January 27, 2019 by Sugarkryptonite

[kgg]

39 minutes ago, Sugarkryptonite said:

Whenever I try to do that, I lift up the foot slightly as he did, but the thread feels tight in the material, and I can't move the material back like he does freely, maybe only half the distance that he does if I'm lucky. 

It maybe that you feed dog is set a little to high and grabbing / holding unto the material.

29 minutes ago, Sugarkryptonite said:

Thirdly, is there a way to adjust the tightness of a stitch in material?

Yes, you will have to adjust the tensions but that is going to be dependant on the type and or mixture of materials as well as the number of layers of material. Tensions for ripstop combined with Sherpa and or other fabrics is going to be different then just ripstop or just the other fabrics alone. How you combined fabrics together will also determine the necessary tensions, sometimes you may have to increase the top thread tension other times decrease it slightly and the same goes for the bobbin tension, it is going to depend on your project.

35 minutes ago, Sugarkryptonite said:

On another note, when I go to take my material out after a stitch is finished, sometimes I need to rotate the machine by hand until it seems the thread is released in the bobbin case area so that I can pull the material away to cut the threads, that's normal, right?

Normal, most times you need to move the hand wheel slightly.

What materials are you using and number of layers? Also are you using a clutch motor or servo motor?

kgg

[brmax]

You might try this, so Moving the material may be best accomplished when the take-up lever is in a raised, very high position. This normaly is also where the hook is in a position that is not putting a strain on the thread below. 

 

Good day

Floyd

[Sugarkryptonite]

59 minutes ago, kgg said:

It maybe that you feed dog is set a little to high and grabbing / holding unto the material.

Yes, you will have to adjust the tensions but that is going to be dependant on the type and or mixture of materials as well as the number of layers of material. Tensions for ripstop combined with Sherpa and or other fabrics is going to be different then just ripstop or just the other fabrics alone. How you combined fabrics together will also determine the necessary tensions, sometimes you may have to increase the top thread tension other times decrease it slightly and the same goes for the bobbin tension, it is going to depend on your project.

Normal, most times you need to move the hand wheel slightly.

What materials are you using and number of layers? Also are you using a clutch motor or servo motor?

kgg

Thanks. So if I increase the tension on the bobbin and needle thread (while still keeping them regulated in terms of loops in middle of material), the stitch will be tighter? How do I know when a stitch is tight enough? Never seen much info on that.

I'm just testing right now on some thinner vinyl, as well as some thicker leather that I have, tried all 1 layer, 2 layers, etc. It seems to sew just fine, but not sure on the actual stitch tension that it should have.

7 minutes ago, brmax said:

You might try this, so Moving the material may be best accomplished when the take-up lever is in a raised, very high position. This normaly is also where the hook is in a position that is not putting a strain on the thread below. 

 

Good day

Floyd

You're talking about moving the material back for the backstitch, right? Thanks I'll keep it in mind.

[kgg]

The main goal is to get the bobbin thread slightly buried in the material or nearly halfway in leather. The tensions needed are going to be different for different thickness and material type. With your top tension knob not having a dial reference number it is going to make it more difficult to get constant top thread tension. I would suggest maybe gluing a small paper disc to the tension nut then numbering it around from  "0" to "5", finding a disc that has numbers on it that will fit from another machine or using a label maker to place numbers on the tension nut. Something to give you a constant reference for doing different projects.

Also note that different thread size (v69 vs v92 vs v138), type (cotton vs bonded nylon vs bonded polyester) and colour (black tends to be stiffer in bonded nylon) are going to play a large part in your tension adjustment. My advise is to set the machine up with a thread / needle combination that works best for most projects, it will save time and reduce frustration with your projects.

kgg

[BattleAx]

I have a Consew 225 and I always  backstitch you can hold the thread and stitch one stitch raise the foot and pull the material forward and place the needle in the first hole. This works great it only takes a little practice. 

[Sugarkryptonite]

1 hour ago, kgg said:

The main goal is to get the bobbin thread slightly buried in the material or nearly halfway in leather. The tensions needed are going to be different for different thickness and material type. With your top tension knob not having a dial reference number it is going to make it more difficult to get constant top thread tension. I would suggest maybe gluing a small paper disc to the tension nut then numbering it around from  "0" to "5", finding a disc that has numbers on it that will fit from another machine or using a label maker to place numbers on the tension nut. Something to give you a constant reference for doing different projects.

Also note that different thread size (v69 vs v92 vs v138), type (cotton vs bonded nylon vs bonded polyester) and colour (black tends to be stiffer in bonded nylon) are going to play a large part in your tension adjustment. My advise is to set the machine up with a thread / needle combination that works best for most projects, it will save time and reduce frustration with your projects.

kgg

Right, I have that under control. I was referring to a different kind of tightness in the stitch but I guess it isn't possible.

1 hour ago, BattleAx said:

I have a Consew 225 and I always  backstitch you can hold the thread and stitch one stitch raise the foot and pull the material forward and place the needle in the first hole. This works great it only takes a little practice. 

Yup thanks, but I'm having trouble with that, see post 1.

[brmax]

Sometimes to much thread seam tightness results in “ puckering”.

Although this can and is professionally used in certain applications.

We in general see this on the material surfaces we sew. In addition a slightly shorter piece on top or bottom, after sewing two identical lengths.

This material surface notice can be a hint of the feed being uneven although its slight. Also getting into a specialized adjustment for different reasons. 

 

Good day

Floyd

[brmax]

I thought to post this link concerning thread seam tension. Though its related it may be kept for refference. This as so many post here! on the site have post and mentions of this in various discussions.

So im saying for sure dig into some posted topics of these questions of yours.  As we know they have or will master the same questions with benefits of sewing leather items. 

So for general seam tension reference>

https://www.coats.com/en/Guidance/Eliminating-Seam-Puckering

 

have a good day

Floyd

[Sugarkryptonite]

7 hours ago, brmax said:

I thought to post this link concerning thread seam tension. Though its related it may be kept for refference. This as so many post here! on the site have post and mentions of this in various discussions.

So im saying for sure dig into some posted topics of these questions of yours.  As we know they have or will master the same questions with benefits of sewing leather items. 

So for general seam tension reference>

https://www.coats.com/en/Guidance/Eliminating-Seam-Puckering

 

have a good day

Floyd

Thanks, that is a good article if you have puckering, but what if you don't? How do we know if the seams are tight enough?

I've been attempting to do more of the back-stitching shown in my first post, but having a hard time getting the holes to line up when I go over it again...any tips? Or is it not 100% necessary?

[kgg]

Have you tried reverse stitching by rotating the project after about three stitches. Method would be to stitch three stitches and with the needle down all the way in your material allow the needle to come up about 1/4 of the way from it's deepest point then lift the presser foot off the material. With the presser foot lifted off the material turn your project around 90 degrees and sew back three stitches, rotate material again and continue to sew. Repeat at the end of seam.

kgg

[kgg]

1 minute ago, kgg said:

material turn your project around 90 degrees

Should have been 180 degrees.

kgg

[Sugarkryptonite]

58 minutes ago, kgg said:

Have you tried reverse stitching by rotating the project after about three stitches. Method would be to stitch three stitches and with the needle down all the way in your material allow the needle to come up about 1/4 of the way from it's deepest point then lift the presser foot off the material. With the presser foot lifted off the material turn your project around 90 degrees and sew back three stitches, rotate material again and continue to sew. Repeat at the end of seam.

kgg

You're right that is another option! Albeit a more time consuming one and harder if you're dealing with bigger projects. I'd like to learn both ideally. 

[brmax]

To find an appropriste thread to seam tightness and strengths,  one hirers extremely competent engineering companys to test such articles. 

On the other hand we do various test that measure up to our own specifications. What ever they may be. 

I found searching many many articles and older post does help. 

I found these industrials are similar in these functions so with test, the typical components mentioned, other brands are likely to produce the same results. 

Hey Your always welcomed and encouraged to share any new results you tried, ( especially with photos ) even if they are separate topics. Im sure it can get narrowed down in short order.

So with that, any discussions on the thread route, tension and its mechanical help like take up spring function is prolly where your gonna end up. 

 

 

Floyd