How to glue filigree?

[nokiddin]

Hey everyone. 

I've been trying to find some advice for this by searching but haven't come up with much.  I want to do some filigree Sheridan work, and have the colored panel behind be topgrain leather.  It seems as though to have a good quality piece, I'd have to have glue in every area of the veg tan, which must mean I have to trace the pattern into the backing pattern, to get glue in the right places if using contact cement.  

Does anyone have any tips on how to do this well?  

Thanks in advance for the help! 

[mikesc]

Spray glue..in aerosol form..3M do one that only needs to be sprayed onto the veg tan..
If you want to be extra sure..spray heavy onto the reverse side of the veg tan, then quickly ( while the glue is still wet ) place it onto the base ( where it will be..) lift it off again ( leaving a "glue print" on what will be the base ) ..Allow both veg tan and base to dry..replace the veg tan exactly on top of the "glue print" on the base. ..Use a roller to press it down..
HTH :)

Or..trace your filigree piece onto light cardboard..cut out the "negative" parts ( with a scalpel or exacto )..that will give you a "stencil" that is exactly like your filigree piece, but "negative"..place it onto the base..spray the contact adhesive through it onto the base..that will give you a "contact glue" print exactly like your filigree piece, spray the back ( easy to forget , make sure it is the back ) of your filigree piece with contact adhesive..then align the two and press them together, with a roller if needed..

Edited April 1, 2019 by mikesc

[nokiddin]

Thanks so much! 

That's helps a lot, I'll try that out. 

[LatigoAmigo]

 

2 hours ago, nokiddin said:

Does anyone have any tips on how to do this well?  

You might consider using something like HeatnBond iron-on adhesive. I find that it is less messy than spray adhesive, although it requires iron your leather, which may or may not be workable.

You iron the adhesive sheet onto the top piece, and when you pull off the backing, the adhesive evenly covers the backside of that piece of leather. Then press the colored leather against that, and iron the pieces of leather. I've used this process on a variety of projects, and have had varying results, but it should work well on veg-tan leather. 

This probably works better with a "heat press" than an ordinary iron, but I wanted to share my thoughts on the topic.

 

Edited April 1, 2019 by LatigoAmigo

[mikesc]

@LatigoAmigo
Good idea..I have a heat press , large plateau ..about 50cm by 50cm ( Tee shirt transfer press , another of my past businesses )..
But I cannot get "Heat Bond" and similar systems here ( France, maybe they are available in Paris, but I always import my "needs" directly from "wherever" , so as to avoid the huge mark up applied by the importers here ) at all , unless I import it..

May even be worth cutting the "heat bond" into a stencil to do the same ?..
I know that if there were many pieces to be done it would be worth printing ( via silk screen ) the exact "heat activated glue " transfer areas, like we used to do with decorative foil or "strass"* elements, like Swarovski ( speeling ? ) do ( or for "holographic foils ) in fashion ( leather and or textile ) work.

*I can't remember the English word for Strass ( which is actually the German word anyway )

Funnily enough, I was shopping with my wife today and noticed that the "Strass" look is coming back ( big time, all the major fashion ( non-couture brands ) into women's fashions here ( 12 to 50 year old market )..might break out some "heat machines" and strike while the iron is hot and sparkly**..

**Could not resist the pun..just for Dikman ;)

Edited April 1, 2019 by mikesc

[LatigoAmigo]

1 hour ago, mikesc said:

But I cannot get "Heat Bond" and similar systems here

Maybe I don't get out into the real world enough, but can't you order it from Amazon or some other online supplier?

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000XAMYXI/ref=oh_aui_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[mikesc]

Sure..I can order it from Amazon ( depending upon who is the shipper ) but one cannot actually walk into a shop here and buy it..
That supplier ( in your link )..$7.97 before shipping..
But..with shipping + VAT ( at 20% ) on the item and ( again 20%
on the shipping) plus whatever "customs" want to charge as tarif ( plus again 20% on the tarif ) gives me ....about $30.00..( or upwards )
probably even worse if I lived in OZ..or NZ or similar..

Some things ( even those made here ) are really ridiculously cheaper in the USA compared to here.."silicone mold making materials" made by French companies here ( like Aventis ) for example..I can buy them 3 times cheaper in the USA, than I can here..But..the shipping cost to here is the killer.. :((

And yet..sometimes it works the other way ..

A f'rincestance ( applies to another of my businesses )..I can buy ball bearings in the USA..at under $20.00 per 1000..here ( imported from the USA via the UK and then onwards to France ..they are $2.50 each..yes that is each ball bearing..for the same size ) ..fortunately I only pay $30.. basic shipping before taxes ( at 20% ) to have them shipped for 1000 units from the USA to here directly )..Shipping used 501's from the USA direct to here ( even by air ) ( 1000 units per time ) is still worth my while to do ..compared to what they would cost me here "used"..
With a little "couture" work..to them..I can sell them at waaaay more than I pay for them..

The retail price of a pair of genuine 501's ( or other Levi models ) in the USA..is less than the wholesale price that their distributors have to pay here ..and waaay less than the price that their exclusive shops have to pay the official distributors here for them..

501 "cut" 14 oz ( non Levi branded ) denim jeans cost less than $5.00 each out of the old Levi factories that they had in China..Which is still probably a little more than Walmart are paying for them "landed"..

Leather vests 3mm Cowhide or Buffalo, no faults, 4 pockets..sold in the USA..marked "American made" ( which they are not, but the labels are shipped separately ) ..I can get for less than $17.00 each..( they would not be coming from the USA ) you pay in the USA upwards of $45.00 for them, from some of your most famous leather apparel retailers ( online and "mall" ) ..and in some cases upto $100.00..

What we all pay for anything depends on where we are, what we know, who we know.. etc..

BTW..Just to be clear..I "can" get...( I I wanted ) but I do not want, nor have I ever sold goods that claim to be from somewhere that they are not, nor that claim to be something that they are not..

Genuine PU leather ( just read the Aliexpress , Alibaba or Ebay or Amazon ads ) is the bane of leather workers everywhere..

Edited April 1, 2019 by mikesc

[LatigoAmigo]

On 4/1/2019 at 3:16 PM, mikesc said:

Sure..I can order it from Amazon ( depending upon who is the shipper ) but one cannot actually walk into a shop here and buy it..

I used to live in a remote area, and encountered similar experiences to yours... for gas, clothes, etc. Isn't that the price you pay for the peace of mind that you might get from living near the beach in France? Just sayin'... If you were to ask me, and I know you're not, I'd say "bite the bullet" and order the product from Amazon, you will be happy.

Well, maybe, but what life is worth living without rolling the dice once in a while?

[mikesc]

Heh :) Indeed it is the price that we willingly pay..

It's not so much "remote" as in France everything like that either comes from suppliers in Paris, or has to be imported..I buy elastic from the UK in small quantities ( under 1000 metres ) or from China in quantities over 1000 metres..

There is an American guy with a business based in Paris who is the supplier haberdashery for many pro users here, even some of the big labels that do not have their clothes made for them in various parts of Asia..but he is selling Chinese elastic ..at minimum quantities of 5000 metres per style , per colour, per type..when he is out of stock..he doesn't carry much "in stock"..you have to wait for 3 to 6 weeks ( his is obviously coming shipped from China ) ..His prices are 5 times what I pay direct from China..and twice the price I pay in the UK, even with shipping calculated in..

There is one other supplier in France who apparently supplies every chain store and sewing shop in the country, they are around his price..and their stuff comes from China..

Neither of them have the range of styles, colours or finishes that I can get from the UK or China..

A lot of small business in the fashion/ apparel manufacturing sector , even lingerie, buy from the UK ( they are going to find BREXIT makes life difficult for them ) or from China..The large or small "couture houses" in Paris ( who can charge so much for their finished goods, that they don't care how much their raw materials cost them, buy from the American guy, or people that he supplies in Paris ) , same applies for buttons, ribbons, buckles rivets, snaps etc etc..

Or some of us get some things from Italy, like buckles, D rings, buttons, rivets etc..Which is where the Parisian suppliers get a lot of theirs from..unless they make their own, like the people who make the buckles and hardware for Hermes etc..

ps..With that adhesive film, wouldn't you still have to cut around all the filigree detail areas and then remove the film from the "holes" before applying heat via an iron or a press ?

Edited April 6, 2019 by mikesc

[LatigoAmigo]

31 minutes ago, mikesc said:

ps..With that adhesive film, wouldn't you still have to cut around all the filigree detail areas and then remove the film from the "holes" before applying heat via an iron or a press ?

No, you would cut out your filigree, lay the adhesive sheet over the backside of that leather, then iron/press it on. Next you take the colored leather and place the colored side up against the adhesive, and press those two pieces of leather together... no fuss, no muss. All of this depends, of course, on the type of leather that you are using. I have not had success with some "oil-stuffed" leathers. You have a big advantage over me, as I am using a simple iron, and that makes it hard to apply an even temperature.

[mikesc]

Thanks for that information..I might just order some ( from your very kindly provided Amazon link above ) to see it in action..I have some things which involve a lot of filigree in lightweight chrome tan leather ( around 2.00 mm and 1.5mm and under, down to 0.5mm ) "sprayless"* adhesive would be easier to manipulate, and allow me to make the filigree areas larger and more detailed..

Hmmm..Thanks again :)

*my system doesn't think "sprayless" is a word..but "spray less" which it does think is correct, doesn't mean the same thing..

[LatigoAmigo]

2 hours ago, mikesc said:

*my system doesn't think "sprayless" is a word..but "spray less" which it does think is correct, doesn't mean the same thing..

You might change systems. Spell checkers come with Microsoft Word and Adobe InDesign, and they do not always agree, plus InDesign lets me add my own words. So we can legitimize "sprayless" if we want to. I love words and dictionaries, and especially how words change their meanings over time.

[fredk]

8 hours ago, LatigoAmigo said:

No, you would cut out your filigree, lay the adhesive sheet over the backside of that leather, then iron/press it on. Next you take the colored leather and place the colored side up against the adhesive, and press those two pieces of leather together... no fuss, no muss. All of this depends, of course, on the type of leather that you are using. I have not had success with some "oil-stuffed" leathers. You have a big advantage over me, as I am using a simple iron, and that makes it hard to apply an even temperature.

I think you mean the other way round? put the adhesive sheet on the piece of leather to be filigreed, cut out leather filigree and adhesive sheet at the same time

On 4/1/2019 at 8:44 PM, mikesc said:

But I cannot get "Heat Bond" and similar systems here ( France, maybe they are available in Paris, but I always import my "needs" directly from "wherever" , so as to avoid 

'Heat Bond' is a trade name. Virtually all haberdashery supply shops sell a fabric heat bonding material and its usually thinner and cheaper than 'Heat Bond'. I use a generic fabric one which comes in at 25% of 'Heat Bond' prices

[LatigoAmigo]

 

6 hours ago, fredk said:

I think you mean the other way round? put the adhesive sheet on the piece of leather to be filigreed, cut out leather filigree and adhesive sheet at the same time

The adhesive will only stay where there is leather for it to stick to. No need to cut both.