Hoping for help with my new patcher (Adler 30-1)

[Vinito]

Hi folks. I picked up an Adler 30-1 patcher kind of by accident this past week (long story). I really like the thing, mostly from a perspective of ingenious mechanical widget more than its utility because I'm a total noob at leather working. But it might come in handy anyway... that is IF I can get it working better.

The problem I need help with is that the thing didn't come with a bobbin or shuttle (or is it a "shuttle hook""? I'll call it a shuttle for now). I didn't expect much but I took a shot at purchasing a cheap shuttle off Amazon and it already arrived to try out. It's pretty much a clone of a long-arm Singer 29K machine with the small bobbins and parts reportedly interchange, which appears to be true from what I can tell. The thing seems to drop into position and fit fine and goes through the motions OK. The problem (tell me if you've heard this before) is with the thread path and tensioner. The fit & finish of the shuttle is better than some I've seen come out of China, but it's still not great. At any rate, the thread doesn't pull through the thing very smoothly at all, and I can't seem to adjust tension on the machine no matter what I try. The top tension is pretty dang tight and the stitch is still pretty much a straight line underneath and all the looping comes from above, i.e. bottom tension is too tight no matter what I've tried so far.

On the shuttle, I have taken the tension spring off and smoothed out the edges a bit with a hone and 1200 grit sandpaper which made it a bit smoother on the corners. But I suspect it's not really the surface finish of the parts that the problem is coming from. I'm not sure how these things are actually supposed to be made when made well, but the channel where the spring fits into it has some pretty radiused inside corners rather than sharp inside corners, and this seems to be keeping the spring from simply setting flat in place but rather settles in along its edges into the radiused corners instead, which leaves a slight gap between the flat part of the spring and the channel where it fits onto the shuttle. Is this making any sense?

Anyway, I wonder if I can find an actual good quality shuttle to use in this machine or are those things rare to find? It's one of the small bobbin/shuttle versions rather than the large ones.

Just an observation from an outsider, but it sure seems like the bobbin in any machine gets the short end of the stick when it comes to tension. The upper thread has all sorts of elaborate routing and tensioners to mamage the thread while the bobbin gets not much more than a pinched slot for the thread to go through. Anyways... It's sure a worse problem on my machine than it should be and I'd like to see it work right if it's possible.

Any help steering me toward a NOS bobbin/shuttle setup or a good quality new part would be appreciated. It would be fantastic if a forum reader had an extra one to just sell to me. Prolly wishful thinking there, but a guy can dream. I don't mind spending more if I can get a good one, but I'm not versed on good sources for parts for these things and I'd prefer not to wait a month for it to arrive if possible.

Thanks for any help. I'll attach a picture of the machine below. If any further explanation or pictures are needed, I'll abide. But I'm pretty sure I just need to start with a good working shuttle.

Edited August 25, 2019 by Vinito

[Constabulary]

Do you have a manual for your machine? If not google it - download it - read it.

Make sure your thread path is correct - I do not see where your top thread is coming from.

I doubt the shuttle is the problem but cannot evaluate the details w/o having it in my hands. If top tension is to high just shorten the to tension spring by 1 or 2 coils. These springs are interchangeable with Singer 29K springs so not a big loss if it goes wrong (for what ever reason).

If you still need a quality shuttle look for TOWA made shuttles - check with your preferred dealer or Ebay:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/390524809518

In my opinion TOWA shuttles are the best quality shuttles beside the OEM shuttles. That said - the nicest I ever have seen are the old OEM Singer shuttles. I was lucky to find one in new coition a while ago - haven´t seen anything nicer than this. It looks like chrome finished. However - TOWA relay is excellent.

[Vinito]

Thanks for the reply. Truly appreciate it.

I did download and read the manual, and thread path is run as per manual with exception of 1) not going through lube tray and 2) I have rigged up a hoop on the spool post and set the thread (larger cone type) behind machine. I kind of tucked it away for the photo. The spool needs a better setup eventually, but just trying to get it to work for now so I can determine whether or not to continue.

I still suspect the shuttle because after my first attempt to thread it, pulling thread through caused it to bunch up and eventually break. This was just hand-pulling thread through the shuttle tensioner. This is also why I ended up polishing the edges in the first place, which stopped the ripping but still didn't work well (at least I don't think so).

Thanks for the Towa recommendation. I think it won't hurt to try one anyway, so I'll call our local shop tomorrow to see if they have anything first. If not I'll order one. I found a few sources for some, but it's not clear to me whether they are reliable sources or not. One is some Amish thing apparently, one is TeamWork Sales out of LA but it looks like they pretty much carry the chinese stuff I think (I could be wrong). Central Michigan carries Towa but about double the price. CSMP seems good but is across the pond, and surely that isn't necessary is it? One place listed genuine Adler 30-1 parts, but alas, and of course, shuttle hook is not in stock.

I guess in the meantime, I can continue to futz around with the shuttle I've got and see if I can make it feed a little smoother. The metal (of the shuttle, not the spring) appears to be pretty hardened, but carbide should still machine it so maybe I can re-machine the pocket and just shave the inside corners so they aren't so rounded and make the spring fit better. I know that's not yer typical path to repair, but I'm a machinist so it's my first thought. At any rate, I'll either nudge it closer to functional or destroy it completely. Either way I might lern sumthin'.

I'm making a long story again, ain't I?

Anyways thanks for the recommendation. 

Edited August 25, 2019 by Vinito

[Wizcrafts]

Here are two things you need to know about your new to you patcher.

If you experience inconsistent stitching with the non-Adler shuttle, know that the timing can be tweaked to advance or retard the hook. This affects the pick-off of the thread loop when the needle makes its down-up-down jog. Another thing affecting the loop is a paddle shaped spring inside the needle bar, just above the needle mounting clamp. If that spring is broken, bent, or worn, there is no back tension on the thread to force the loop to stay long enough to get picked off.

[Vinito]

Thanks Wiz. I'll keep that in mind. So far the machine appears to be picking up the thread and stitching consistently albeit not well. Consistently bad. Once I get the bobbin tension sorted out I'll have the chance to take a look at the timing of things to determine if anything needs tweaking.

The paddle spring appears to be OK. It all being foreign to me I can't be positive about that, but nothing appears to be "off" regarding that at least.

p.s. I'm too impatient. I went ahead and ordered the Towa shuttle, plus ordered a few different needles and some larger thread (for some reason??). The machine had a needle installed which seems to work, but it's pretty dang large for the #69 thread I'm piddling with. Yesterday a package of ordered needles arrived but they were too short. That's what you get for relying on listing info rather than looking up the real information I guess. In the manual, it says I need system 332 needles. I just today discovered that needle size and needle system are two different things. But I think I have the correct fitting needles on the way in a few different sizes and tip types. At $3 a pop (for 10) it's worth splurging to have some different things to try. I feel like I could write a scientific paper on all this discovery and experimentation. Whew!

Edited August 25, 2019 by Vinito

[Vinito]

Well I fiddled and futzed with the shuttle until it kind of works now. It did indeed seem to be a problem with the rounded inner corners keeping the tension spring from seating. Why make a product that won't work at all when it takes about a minute longer to make one that works? Oh well.

Rather than mill the slot of a hardened thing and maybe break an expensive cutter as well as the shuttle, I simply filed away the edges of the spring a little until it was narrow enough to fit against what flat was there in the slot, avoiding the raised, rounded corners.

So I was able to set it to stitch evenly between top & bottom, but it appears to me that the needle is about 4 times too large for the thread I'm currently using. Take a look and let me know if you agree, and/or feel free to tell me anything else if you want to offer advice. I can maybe make machines function generically, but I dunnow nuttin' bout sewin' nuttin.

FYI, leather is ~8 oz V.T., the thread is #69 bonded nylon and the needle is marked GB 140, whatever that means. I have some 18 size needles coming so maybe that'll be a bit closer match for the thread? Also have some 138 thread coming too so I can see how that might go as well.

Fancy USB microscope capture  :

Edited August 25, 2019 by Vinito

[Vinito]

And for what it's worth, here's a quick couple photos which hopefully show a little clearer the way I'm routing the upper thread, in case that matters for something. Probably not much significance, but...

[Wizcrafts]

5 hours ago, Vinito said:

FYI, leather is ~8 oz V.T., the thread is #69 bonded nylon and the needle is marked GB 140, whatever that means. I have some 18 size needles coming so maybe that'll be a bit closer match for the thread? Also have some 138 thread coming too so I can see how that might go as well.

You are correct in saying that the needles are too big for the thread. I use #18 (110) needles with #69 thread and sometimes #16 (100) for better precision. A #140 needle is a #22 in Singer size and is the typical recommended for #138 thread, top and bottom. I personally find the holes too tight in leather and prefer a #23/160 with #138 thread.

[Vinito]

Thanks Wiz. I ordered a selection of needles, but dangit if I only ranged between #18 and #22. I would have thrown in some #16 had I known they might be good for the thread I already have! Well I'm sure I'll have enough to play with for a while. I'll be spending time starting down the leatherwork rabbit hole a bit anyway so no particular rush I guess.

I do have a need/want for a couple holster type items I'd like to make and some of the stuff I have coming should apply to those projects. I have a pretty large order coming from Springfield leather... a few tools but I guess most of the money spent on the order was different thicknesses of VT leather.

So pretty soon I'll be spending just a bit more time on the stitcher tying up a couple loose ends (no pun intended) and tweaking it to function a bit better, but there will also be a shift toward the meat & potatoes of some actual working of leather. I think it will be fun.

[Wizcrafts]

21 minutes ago, Vinito said:

I do have a need/want for a couple holster type items I'd like to make

The 30-1 isn't really strong enough to sew holsters much thicker than about 1/4 inch. It is limited to a maximum of #138 thread, but the bobbins are so small they can only hold a couple yards of that size thread. Despite its appearance, the 30-1 is actually a shoe and boot repair machine, strictly for uppers. I use patchers for purse repairs and for sewing patches over pockets. Your machine is best used with #69 bonded thread and a #18 needle. It can also sew with #92 thread using a #19 or #20 needle.

If you need to sew holsters, find a machine capable of handling #277 bonded thread, top and bottom. These are known as harness stitchers. Mine is a Cowboy CB4500, which I recommend. Before that I had a Union Lockstitch machine, which has a long learning curve and costs a lot more for parts and accessories.