Building my first mule saddle

[EdOdgers]

The SS ring-shank nails I use most are about 0.09" or 2.25mm in diameter (about 3D) and lengths of 3/4", 7/8", and 1".  These were sourced from Hagel's Cowboy Gear (Sara Hagel).

[DirtyDusty]

On 3/19/2020 at 2:57 PM, EdOdgers said:

 

Kudos for using the Lane Cards on your mule.  There's much to learn by taking a careful look at equine backs and experimenting with the Lane Card System is a great tool.  I've used the cards on a lot of horses but only a few mules and mules will vary a lot.  Thus, I only have a few general thought for you.

The "rocker" of the tree bars is a critical consideration and the feature that is most often and most significantly different on a mule compared to a horse.  Most mules have a flatter back (less rocker, front to back), inheriting that feature from their daddy Jack. The Lane cards have "rocker" choices to evaluate this.  There are four cards for rocker, the R3 being the flattest.

I'm not surprised that the C cards were wide for your mule. This is another common difference in mules.  Their backs usually don't broaden as much as horses in the loin area where the C card is used.  Mule bars typically have less rocker and less "twist."  The twist refers to the change in bar angle as it proceeds from the wither pad (under the fork) to the rear or loin pad (under the cantle).  Horse bars will typically start at about 90 degrees at the withers and broaden to about 130 degrees at the loin, depending on the maker.   I don't build trees and don't know how much variation (less twist) is common for mule bars.  I would consult with a reputable tree maker that has built mule trees and is familiar with the Lane cards.  Better yet, try to get a hold of a tree to try on your mule.  Nothing beats fitting an actual tree.  A final note, my order of priorities for fitting the tree to your mule would be: 1, rocker; 2, wither angle and width; 3, loin angle.  The rear bar pad (loin area) is relatively large and weight distribution there is important but less problematic than the withers.

While it is best to evaluate backs at or near maturity, at 3 1/2 years old I don't think your mule will change dramatically or any more than it will seasonally.  For example, most horses and mules that have had the winter off will require less pad than they will after a summer of work.  That amount of variation doesn't warrant consideration for tree selection.

Just my opinion, but I would look to some other makers for your tree.  In particular, I would avoid "Arizona" bars.  Arizona bars rely on "bridged fit" for stirrup leather clearance.  I don't use Arizona bars for any trees but would particularly advise against them for a horse or mule with a flatter back. 

A final note:  Any time you are building a saddle that is not likely to fit a typical horse, it should be clearly marked on the saddle.   I stamp the tree characteristics on the rigging leather under the seat flap.  This will forewarn future owners/users as to the intended use of the saddle and may prevent a horse or mule from suffering a terrible fit.

 

How short can the skirts be in the back?  I notice several manufactures have their overall skirt length on mule saddles at 24-27” for a 16” finished seat. My tree is 24” alone.  

[EdOdgers]

You can make the skirts as short as you like, in fact you don't need to have skirts (think McClellan saddles).  On the other hand, do you want to have a good looking saddle?  Some folks mistakenly believe that skirt length will necessarily affect the horse/mule and needs to be short for animals with shorter backs.  Sadly, they probably believe that because of bad experiences with improperly built saddles.  A saddle with properly blocked-in skirts that are angled up and away behind the cantle, won't interfere with the horse or mule's back.  Thus the saying: "ride the tree not the skirts."  I've attached photos to illustrate how the angle of the topline of the skirts behind the cantle and the blocking  of the skirts (bedding of the tree into the skirts) can be done to provide clearance and prevent the skirts from putting pressure on the back. 

So, assuming you design and install them properly,  skirt length is primarily an aesthetic consideration for which you are the judge.  I usually make my skirts from 5" to 6" behind the cantle back.  I feel that within that range I can create a balanced, pleasing look.  I only use the shorter 5" length for skirts that are narrower (vertical measure) and/or have "mother hubbard" housing (no jockeys).  I know some makers who make beautiful saddles that commonly use 6 1/2".  The saddle in the photo is 5 3/4" and is very typical for my saddles with that skirt shape and depth.  On an occasion or two I've been talked into going a bit less than 5" and regretted it, later realizing the saddle looks chopped off, imbalanced and ugly.  On the other end of the saddle, I extend the front of the skirts 1 1/2" to 1 3/4" in front of the bar tips.  Thus my total skirt length for a 16" seat is going to end up at 27 1/2" or maybe close to 28".  Seat lengths that are shorter or longer will have proportional skirt lengths.

If riders are concerned about saddle length interfering with the animals hip, and they should be, it's the bar length they need to be concerned about. To avoid long bars they need to avoid long seat lengths.  As you pointed out, the bar length for a 16" seat is going to be about 24" and for a lot of shorter backed animals that's about all they can handle well.  I always warn anyone desiring a longer seat they have the responsibility to ride bigger, longer backed critters.   A 17" seat saddle and a 250# rider is not a good fit for a 14-3 horse weighing jsut 1,000#.  You can't put five quarts in a gallon jug.

[DirtyDusty]

2 hours ago, EdOdgers said:

You can make the skirts as short as you like, in fact you don't need to have skirts (think McClellan saddles).  On the other hand, do you want to have a good looking saddle?  Some folks mistakenly believe that skirt length will necessarily affect the horse/mule and needs to be short for animals with shorter backs.  Sadly, they probably believe that because of bad experiences with improperly built saddles.  A saddle with properly blocked-in skirts that are angled up and away behind the cantle, won't interfere with the horse or mule's back.  Thus the saying: "ride the tree not the skirts."  I've attached photos to illustrate how the angle of the topline of the skirts behind the cantle and the blocking  of the skirts (bedding of the tree into the skirts) can be done to provide clearance and prevent the skirts from putting pressure on the back. 

So, assuming you design and install them properly,  skirt length is primarily an aesthetic consideration for which you are the judge.  I usually make my skirts from 5" to 6" behind the cantle back.  I feel that within that range I can create a balanced, pleasing look.  I only use the shorter 5" length for skirts that are narrower (vertical measure) and/or have "mother hubbard" housing (no jockeys).  I know some makers who make beautiful saddles that commonly use 6 1/2".  The saddle in the photo is 5 3/4" and is very typical for my saddles with that skirt shape and depth.  On an occasion or two I've been talked into going a bit less than 5" and regretted it, later realizing the saddle looks chopped off, imbalanced and ugly.  On the other end of the saddle, I extend the front of the skirts 1 1/2" to 1 3/4" in front of the bar tips.  Thus my total skirt length for a 16" seat is going to end up at 27 1/2" or maybe close to 28".  Seat lengths that are shorter or longer will have proportional skirt lengths.

If riders are concerned about saddle length interfering with the animals hip, and they should be, it's the bar length they need to be concerned about. To avoid long bars they need to avoid long seat lengths.  As you pointed out, the bar length for a 16" seat is going to be about 24" and for a lot of shorter backed animals that's about all they can handle well.  I always warn anyone desiring a longer seat they have the responsibility to ride bigger, longer backed critters.   A 17" seat saddle and a 250# rider is not a good fit for a 14-3 horse weighing jsut 1,000#.  You can't put five quarts in a gallon jug.

Thanks for taking time to responding. Makes a lot of sense. 

On a side note, I like that border you used in the saddle in the post. What size and style of stamp did you use, if you don’t mind me asking. 

[EdOdgers]

I have two versions.  This one is a two stamp set from Horseshoe Brand (Watt) called Wheat Leaf.  There is just one size.  The other is similar and just one stamp from Barry King called Shell Border in size #1.  I like them both but the Wheat Leaf takes antique better.  The space between the beaded lines is 5/16" so the stamp is just shy of that in width.

[DirtyDusty]

So getting my patterns made and starting to layout, using the Jeremiah watt method. Came to my next question. In the video he has a triangle shaped riser in the front of his plug. When I laid mine out, there isn’t much room for the front to go all the way down. As you can see by the dotted line, I will be running part of it up in the fork. Is this correct?  In am thinking I need to just slice that part till it blends, and go all the way to the bottom of the bar.

[rktaylor]

I skive along the swells to create a smooth transition. I would arc the riser forward at the bottom to give you something to skive to create a transition there. Just curve it around the swell. I'm sure there are other methods, but that's what I would do. 

BTW, nice looking tree. 

Randy

Edited April 28, 2021 by rktaylor
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[DirtyDusty]

1 minute ago, rktaylor said:

I skive along the swells to create a smooth transition. I would arc the riser forward at the bottom to give you something to skive to create a transition there. Just curve it around the swell. I'm sure there are other methods, but that's what I would do. 

Randy

So instead of a straight dotted line, make that cut an arch, to spread the transition?

[rktaylor]

I think the dotted line on the swells is fine. I would have the riser at least 3/4" wide from the swell to the edge of the bar. That let's you keep the riser at full width along the stirrup slot and skive a transition for the ground seat. Sorry I don't have a photo. 

Randy

[rktaylor]

I'm going to back up and ask what your rigging plans are.  You can't think about this one piece at a time. That's a mistake that I still make on occasion. 

Randy