Building my first mule saddle

[DirtyDusty]

15 minutes ago, rktaylor said:

I think the dotted line on the swells is fine. I would have the riser at least 3/4" wide from the swell to the edge of the bar. That let's you keep the riser at full width along the stirrup slot and skive a transition for the ground seat. Sorry I don't have a photo. 

Randy

I understand what you are saying. As far as rigging I was looking at doing a dee rig in the 7/8 position. Like the Al Stohlman dee rig. Figured it would help keep it lighter. I am using 13/15 skirting.  

[rktaylor]

There may be better methods, but this is what I did on my last saddle with a dee rigging. The riser ends near the bottom of the swell. The rigging is skived to match the riser thickness and then follows the front edge of the stirrup slot. It slides up under the ground seat. This is closer to a full position than 7/8. More experienced makers might frown on this, but it worked for me. 

Randy

[DirtyDusty]

Finally got a day off to get a little work done on it. Had a few questions before I get too far ahead. 

I got my plugs and risers in, Lined my strainer, and wanted to make sure it looks like it’s set right. I have some arch in it, up until it starts to curve upwards. At that point, it flattens back out. Looking from behind, it looks like there isn’t much clearance for the spine.  Is this enough?

The side view is how it will be sitting on the mules back.   Does the slope look ok?

in the mock up, I have the lining, for the strainer, under the front tabs. Should I pull it back out, so that the excess will pull out of the way far enough?

Any other issues you see?

[rktaylor]

I personally like a little more and consistent rise going toward the swells but that's a preference. Are you following Watt's method on the ground seat? I suppose Stohlman's method isn't a lot different if those are the two resources you are using. While the strainer is the foundation, you can still do a lot of shaping with leather (with a lot of skiving). I fit the liner under the front tabs, but make sure you have enough to stretch over the finished ground seat. 

Randy

[DirtyDusty]

3 minutes ago, rktaylor said:

I personally like a little more and consistent rise going toward the swells but that's a preference. Are you following Watt's method on the ground seat? I suppose Stohlman's method isn't a lot different if those are the two resources you are using. While the strainer is the foundation, you can still do a lot of shaping with leather (with a lot of skiving). I fit the liner under the front tabs, but make sure you have enough to stretch over the finished ground seat. 

Randy

Yes, I am following watts method. The strainer will still come down about 1/4” behind the stirrup slot. I just tacked a couple nails in place, nothing was driven down.  It shows laying the first layer down 2/3rd the way back, and sloping up to the swell.  Then the next piece goes from the swell all the way back to the dish, a couple inches shy of the rim. Then a cantle filler for a Cheyenne roll. I am doing a straight up cantle, so I am wondering if I need to run my 2nd piece of ground work all the way to the back rim, since the cantle filler will be going on the back side. 

[DirtyDusty]

I tried the tree on the mule this afternoon to see how the strainer cleared his spine. It was touching the hair on his spine , at the lowest point of the strainer.  The skirts were not on, so that should give me another 3/8” clearance?  5-star makes a mule lad for extreme mike backs, that has the center cut away for clearance.  I have seen where Paul Garrison, the mule trainer modifies his pads to accommodate mule backs lijevthis one.  Any thoughts? 

[EdOdgers]

A bare tree on a horse or mule will give you a good indication of the suitability of the the bars angles, width and rocker  but it will not provide conclusive information on the clearance of the gullet, groundseat and cantle gullet.   To check for clearance, put a firm thick pad under the tree.  Use pad(s) thicker than you intend to use in order to replicate the skirts, sheepskin and pad you will be using with the finished saddle.  It's typical when placing a bare tree (no pad) on an animal for the gullet to be at or near the withers, yet the finished saddle will have ample clearance.  The same and more will be true for the groundseat, since the sheepskin and skirts will not extend over the spine area.  I suspect that when you make the same test with padding, the clearance will be adequate.

The 5-Star pads you are referring to can be helpful for a mule with a prominent ridge along it's back.  Essentially, these pads have the same affect and will add to the clearance created by the sheepskin and skirts.  The cut-out isn't so much to compensate for the lack of clearance of the saddle (the saddle should have enough clearance regardless) but to prevent the pressure and friction along the ridge of the spine from the pad being pulled down tight across the top of the back.  That "ridge" type of back just can't get any relief from the pad or blanket, even if the saddle isn't bearing down on it.  This is the same concept as the contour shape of many felt pads which corrects for the tendency of a flat pad pulling tightly across a horses withers despite the saddle having adequate wither clearance.  It's also why good horseman will tuck up the pad/blankets into the gullet before cinching up. 

[DirtyDusty]

Got a little progress made. Cantle back is fitted and waiting for me to stamp it. Ground seat has 2 layers, like the Jeremiah Watt method. 

How does my ground work look?  Hard to get a good angle go see the the contours. The pencil marks are 1” apart, starting at the cantle, for reference. Penciled in where the stirrup slot will be notched out.  Lower angle shows where I thinned out over stirrup leather. Should this area be thinned more?

[EdOdgers]

The ground seat at back of the stirrup leathers should be paper thin at the bar edge.  That's the area that needs to be as NARROW as the tree and stirrup leathers allow.   I like to see the metal from the strainer peeking though at the back of the stirrup leathers.  That way I know I've removed enough.

Your "pocket" or low point looks to be in the right place (about 3 1/2" behind stirrup leathers) but should be more concave as it rises to the fork; it's too straight now and should be more of an elliptical shape.

[DirtyDusty]

23 hours ago, EdOdgers said:

The ground seat at back of the stirrup leathers should be paper thin at the bar edge.  That's the area that needs to be as NARROW as the tree and stirrup leathers allow.   I like to see the metal from the strainer peeking though at the back of the stirrup leathers.  That way I know I've removed enough.

Your "pocket" or low point looks to be in the right place (about 3 1/2" behind stirrup leathers) but should be more concave as it rises to the fork; it's too straight now and should be more of an elliptical shape.

I have been shaving some more off the rise.  I am getting into the grain of the top piece of leather. Is this normal? Still have the thickness of the first layer underneath. Still need to thin the sides more, too.