Tippmann Boss

[whinewine]

I am in negotiations to purchase a new (but out of warranty) Tippmann Boss sewing machine. While searching the Internet last night, I came across 2 dealers who no longer carry, recommend or endorse the Tippmann Boss, and they make it very well known.

I have sent out emails to both dealers asking what the problems are: 1 has ignored my request and the other merely said 'thank you'...

Does anyone have any idea if there are any inherent problems with the Boss, or is it primarily a dealer vs factory= not-enough-$$$-for-the-dealer problem?

Since I will be spending a sizable chunk of money on this machine, I really would like to know all the pertinent facts, both positives AND negatives.

Thank you all for any truthful & honest information you can provide.

[Johanna]

When I was a Tandy manager in the 90s we carried them in the stores. They were difficult to set up and tweak, and customer service after the sale was nonexistent. I will say that by the time it is threaded and set for a particular project, you could have sewn half the project by hand. I have seen the Boss do some heavy duty work, but I have also know that in addition to the threading and leather feeding issues, operating the machines is tedious. It is a sizable investment, so my advice to you would be to "test drive" one from the person (dealer) you plan to buy it from, and ask for references from his past customers to make sure it will fit in with your plans for use, and that they received after-sale help. I'm not disparaging the machine, for it has some advantages depending on the intended use, but I think you are wise to consider the purchase carefully. By doing your research, you will be able to determine beforehand if that machine will suit your needs. Welcome to Leatherworker.net!

Johanna

[Tom Katzke]

I am in negotiations to purchase a new (but out of warranty) Tippmann Boss sewing machine. While searching the Internet last night, I came across 2 dealers who no longer carry, recommend or endorse the Tippmann Boss, and they make it very well known.

I have sent out emails to both dealers asking what the problems are: 1 has ignored my request and the other merely said 'thank you'...

Does anyone have any idea if there are any inherent problems with the Boss, or is it primarily a dealer vs factory= not-enough-$$$-for-the-dealer problem?

Since I will be spending a sizable chunk of money on this machine, I really would like to know all the pertinent facts, both positives AND negatives.

Thank you all for any truthful & honest information you can provide.

Hope Bruce answers this. I know he about wore one out using it. As far as I know he is happy with it.

You say a sizable chunk of money. I hope you will not pay more then you can get one on sale from a dealer with the warranty. One advantage may be if it is old enough to be the cast iron frame. I recall the old ones were cast iron and the new ones are alloy or aluminum.

Tom Katzke

Central Oregon

[bruce johnson]

Tom is not quite right. I used the heck out of one, but it was no where close to worn out when I sold it. It will sew anything you can cram under the foot. It will do three layers of skirting all day. It will do a checkbook cover and then a back cinch with little or no tension change. There are few parts to wear out. It was my first machine, and I did have one of the old cast iron models. There is no timing to get out of whack and it is easy to maintain. I found once I got the tension right, the tweaking was easy and it sewed a pretty good stitch. It took about a an hour or so of fiddling to get the bobbin tension right. I never adjusted it after that - only the top tension. The parts I did break were upgraded to heavier duty parts in later models, and never charged for. As far as setup, it was no different than the three powered machines I have got since then. Learning on the Boss made it easier for me to use the motored machines later. The threading pattern is pretty similar to my bigger machines too. My son used it, both wives, I found it pretty forgiving.

The down side - you power it, and it is boring and tedious for production type work. The plus side - you power it. You have control of every stitch. You can't run off the end unless you fall asleep. It does have a 9" or so throat, so not a huge reach for centered inlays on big projects. Mine was ultimately replaced by a Ferdco Pro 2000. I had a 440 before that, and still have a heavy duty Adler. When I got the Pro 2000, I put the Boss in a storage room for two months. Only to prove to myself I would not regret selling the Boss, since it paid for itself long before. There is now another machine out that is powered for under $2000 (Artisan 3000), has been out for about a year and a half. The Boss proved to be the workhorse for me and I would not hesitate to recommend it.

Bruce Johnson

[whinewine]

For $1300, I can get a new (but out of warranty) machine with standard package (with all that comes in the standard package) + video + 2 extra bobbins (4 total) + the centerfoot presser attachment + a cobbler's bench with mounting platform (looks like a stitching horse but has a mounting platform for the boss).

For me, it is a substantial chunk of $$$: I retired last year and decided to get back into leatherwork after 35+- years. I'm teaching my son to carve. We've done a Celtic wine & music festival and a first year Renfaire (that went bust) this year & I've put out a pretty large outlay into leather & supplies & plan to spend the winter making stuff.

[bruce johnson]

The $1300 price for new, but out of warranty is probably a bit high. New ones sell for $1450 from a lot of dealers, without the stand. Heard that TLF has discounted to $1200 or so on special sale right now. Will get to the stand in a moment. The extra bobbins are nice(they cost about 4-5 dollars from most industrial machine suppliers) and I had 8 or 10. That way I had several wound for different color and sized threads. Personally I never liked the center presser foot. I sewed better with the regular double toe foot or right or left toe foot as needed around spots or raised edges.

The bench for me is too high. You are reaching up to pull the handle (fatiguing on your shoulder), and the strap or piece is in your chin, not your lap. I used a basic bench tool stand from Harbor Freight, cost about $20. Had a 1" particle board top on it that you would mount a bench grinder or table top jig saw, etc on. I sat on a low bar or counter stool. My reach was level across to the handle, and I could sew longer and faster, and was looking down on my sew line - not across it like the cobbler's bench.

One thing about the boss too. The factory will rebuild them for a very reasonable price. On mine they quoted something like an exchange for $100 or rebuild with new presser bar, cable, and handle assembly for $125 or something like that. They will then warranty it just like a new machine. Mine was sewing fine, so they recommended selling it as is. If it ever needed rebuilding, then the new owner could have it rebuilt or exchanged, just like the original owner for the same price and warranty.

Bruce Johnson

[whinewine]

The $1300 is for the Boss & bench, he wants $1000 for the Boss alone [which is $200 less than Tandy's price]

Edited October 31, 2006 by whinewine

[Tom Katzke]

The $1300 is for the Boss & bench, he wants $1000 for the Boss alone [which is $200 less than Tandy's price]

Yes that is a chunk of $. I do not know much about machines so can not comment on if it is a deal or not. The reason for my question was 'sizable chunk' is a subjective term. Wanted to make sure you were getting the best advice.

Do you get the Leather Crafters & Saddlers Journal? I have heard there are some nice power machines at some unbelievable prices now days. If you are in an area with some dealers you could go and look. It all depends on what you are sewing the most.

With you being retired it may be a good excuse for an over night road trip.

Tom Katzke

Central Oregon

[Billsotx]

I've been using my Boss about 2 yrs. I ditto everything Bruce said. I like the fact that it's manual drive as I have complete control and I don't worry about sewing myself unintentionally when I'm working on real tight close curves. Unlike Bruce I only use the center foot. I could not get in close with the standard foot even after I shaved the sides and tried to modify it. I found their customer service excellent. I bought a rebuilt machince and as my luck would have it I got a lemon right out of the chute. Twenty minutes on the phone and I was told we're sending the brown truck by to pick it up and another one is being shipping out as we speak. Two days later I was in business. Like the above threads mention, it takes some tweaking. I won't go into that. If you get it let us know if you have problems. Don't be shy about calling Tippman if you have problems and if you call them for help be right there at the machine as they will talk you through any problems. I did not have any problems or make any calls on the replacement they sent; just followed the instructions. I did not get the stand. I mounted mine on a 3/4 piece of birch ply that I had laying around and I sometimes pack it off to other places to sew. I'm not sure what you'll wear out, but like Bruce mentioned, a hundred bucks gets you a complete rebuild. Good luck with whatever you pick. Regards ~Bill

[whinewine]

Years ago, I got a used manual machine. I don't remember WHAT it was, or WHO made it. It looked like a huge Singer (my grandmother had a treadle Singer that looked like it, but was much, much smaller). It had no instructions & no manual. Bottom line is that I had nothing but problems with it (broken needles, skipped stitches, ... who knows what else- I don't remember, it was so long ago)- got rid of it in a heartbeat.

I hate handsewing (if I'm busy) & I don't trust an electric machine. I need to have full, conscious control & I'd rather learn on a fully manual machine that works well & HAS A MANUAL or VIDEO to guide me along. That means a lot.

[Billsotx]

If you get a Boss email me and I'll tell you my method of tweaking it. I'd bet Bruce will give you some pointers too. Bruce helped me quite a bit and then I picked up some more pointers along the way. You'll have some options anyway.

The video, at least the one I received, is ok in that you can see the machine in action and get a handle on the nomenclature. Especially where it shows you how to sew backwards. I don't stop and start my stitches like they show in the video and there's more they could show & tell you. The manual is good, especially the schematics but it is dated in my opinion. For instance if you call them they'll tell you to thread the machine different than in the manual - that's a GOOD THING! ... cause the way the manual shows no longer works. (Remember there's been updates ... lol

I think you'll do ok with a Boss.

[whinewine]

If you get a Boss email me and I'll tell you my method of tweaking it. I'd bet Bruce will give you some pointers too. Bruce helped me quite a bit and then I picked up some more pointers along the way. You'll have some options anyway.

The video, at least the one I received, is ok in that you can see the machine in action and get a handle on the nomenclature. Especially where it shows you how to sew backwards. I don't stop and start my stitches like they show in the video and there's more they could show & tell you. The manual is good, especially the schematics but it is dated in my opinion. For instance if you call them they'll tell you to thread the machine different than in the manual - that's a GOOD THING! ... cause the way the manual shows no longer works. (Remember there's been updates ... lol

I think you'll do ok with a Boss.

Thank you. I have decided to go ahead & purchase the Boss (in payments, so it's manageable). For what I can afford to spend, and what I want to spend, it seems like the best deal. I don't want electric at this point: I need to be able to know how to learn to sew manually (before I'd want to zip off the end of the project with electric). If I don't like it, I can always sell it on ebay for what I paid for it. Plus the bench itself can be used to attach my rivet/snap setter/embossing machine.

When I do finally pay it off & have it in my possession, I will most definitely email you and take you up on your offer of how to tweak it.

Again, thanks to you and thanks to all who gave their valued input. Believe me, it is appreciated.

Russ

[pella]

I buy the boss because it was the only machine that sew very thick i could afford. I dream the day i will be able to buy a better older foot operated machine...

i do not like the boss. I cannot sew thin stuff only thick stuff minimum 14oz will give a nice result for me and i have trouble with the tension, I like to use fine points and fine thread so the lower tensioner is not thight enough and that cause me problems...I tried to modifed last day and i think it is worst now. I hate my machine, i even broke a tooth of the mecanism one day in a rage i suppose when everything was stuck in the machine. I email tipmann and never had an anwser. I wanted to ask them for another piece that brake on my machine...a little piece, and i find a way to replace it but still...

I use center foot also as other feet is VERY BIG...

SO many hours spend on that machine...and still not have good result, sometime yes sometime no... I use it for repair job...

also the needle do not enter in the exact middle of the hole (on the plate) it even touch one side...

GRRRRRRRRRRRR it drive me CRAZY!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SO now you all know why i like my hands ans awl...

nb: i have good souvenirs of a machine when i was at school...there some nice machine out there but you need to pay for...

[whinewine]

Pella:

I actually did buy the tippmann in question & I love it. I haven't had any problems with it, so far. I haven't tried to use it to sew thin stuff, though, and I haven't needed to adjust the stitch length either. I usually sew stuff between 4 and 9 oz with no problems & no need to make any adjustments, either.

I've been told that the problems come from people turning the adjustment wheels too far: in other words, instead of making a quarter inch turn, they'll make 2 or 3 turns, which throws the machine out of adjustment.

As far as the broken part, call tippmann at 1-866-286-8046. Tell them about your email that was ignored and I'm sure they'll they'll help you & replace the broken part with no problems.

***Companies find it easy to ignore an email but very hard to ignore a real person face to face (or voice to voice, for that matter)!***

Call them: if I don't get results, I always call and speak to a real person. If I'm still not satisfied, I go to that person's supervisor, and so on, up the chain. It doesn't always work, but many times it does. YOU have to be firm, YOU have to be forceful, YOU have to be the one in control.

[Justis Cases]

Most complaints that I hear about sewing machines are usually from individuals that are not one bit mechanically inclined or cannot read and understand the manual that accompanies the machine. Unless you have a fairly good eye, a slightly bent or burred needle point can drive you crazy with skipped stitches, funny noises, etc. Another thing is getting your upper and lower tension correct. You have to be able to look at the stitches closely to make sure the lock is as close to the center of the material as possible. Unless you have the eye for this, it can be frustrating. One small burr on the pick up hook can disable the best machine every made. You also need a good ear to detect changes in sound that will usually tell you in advance that something is about ready to blow. I would say without hesitation that 90% of complaints on sewing machines (manual or electric) are caused by operator error. If you plan on buying a sewing machine, make sure its from a reputable dealer with excellent service backup. When you buy from an individual, your usually on your own.

I've always maintained sewing by hand is great only if you don't own a sewing machine. Mine is an old walking foot Juki LU-562.

[Justis Cases]

I've always maintained sewing my hand ............

Ouch! That would hurt.......no way to edit the spelling....

Yes there is! Posting is covered in "Help". I fixed it for you.~ Johanna

[bruce johnson]

Jack,

I have to agree with you on a few levels. I liked your last line about handsewing is great only if you don't own a sewing machine. From experience, there is nothing romantic about handsewing 20 checkbooks on a Sunday. I could hardly lift my arms to dial the phone Monday morning to order the Boss. "Did I want 2nd day air? YES!!!" I had zero experience with sewing on a machine before, but knew it was time to nod my head or go home. When I went from one inch per minute to one foot per minute, I knew I was right. The Boss and the mechanics taught me how they are supposed to work properly, and being able to cycle it by hand and watch the stitch cycle taught me how to troubleshoot when something wasn't quite right. That was several years ago, but the lessons remain. Biggest lesson, when something changes - always change out needles first. Figuring out what a machine can and can't do directly aided when I moved up to powered machines. I don't think I would have had as good a handle on the powered machines, and which one(s) to buy, had I not bought the Boss first. I knew what capacity machine I needed, not what price machine I wanted to pay.

Bruce Johnson

[pella]

It is not the first machine i operate and "no machine is the same", this is the worst i operate since my beginning, and i read all manual carefully, watch the video, let me say there is not much to read. I also know about needle and when problem, i change. look if needle blunt and make test. I had some courses about sewing machine mecanism at school, but these machine where much better quality, i understand the Boss is not that expensive for the work we can accomplish with. Just want to say that is is not a fine quality tool like german machines so maybe normal to have more problem...with pieces. I have a Juki like your justin and it work fine.

I had some help from another who own the Boss and i may be able to find the problem, may be some parts to update and thread problem. I'll let you know what happen, i have to call the company.

I find romantic to hand sew! lol!

[Billsotx]

Romantic? ... you must have some French blood ... lol!

[pella]

well...i was replying to Bruce...about romantisism...

I do have french blood! lol! From Normandie and my leather teacher where all french from france so they do tranmit their love for hand-sewn stuff. Even if i had a superb machine, i am not sure if i would switch to machine stitch on my products...i am a purist and conservative person, i like tradition when it come to art crafts (but i like creativity as well! ...made the old way!)

I call Boss cie and they will send me a replacement shuttle, the NEW MODEL...wow! i supose that will help me with the tension problems.

The guys were sympatic and comprehensive of my french accent.

One question here, maybe i should start a new thread but it is a question of words

What is the difference between STITCHING AND SEWING?

In french we have distinct terms for hand stich(?or hand sewn?) and machine stich it is

"Cousu à la main" or "piqué à la machine"

[esantoro]

When I bought my first machine, I was thinking about the boss but wondered why anyone would want to pay $1500 for a hand powered machine when they could get a good enough powered machine for $900 that can do pretty much the same.

I did buy a Taiwanese machine, called in various parts a Ferdco Baby Bull, Neel's Model 5, Mach 1, etc., but it's a damn fine machine. I'm sure the Boss, stitch per stitch puts down a nicer stitch, soething coparable with the most expensive machines, but my Tai machine is nothing to sneeze at. It, like the Boss , feeds the leather only with the feed dog and does not have a reverse.

Recently, because i saw the real need for a compound feed machine, I bought a machine very similar to the Artisan Pro 4000 and the Ferdco Superbull, but i still prefer working with my Baby Bull, which taught me a lot about reading stitches and tension. it's a machine a feel comfortable experimenting with.

I bet you can get one of these machine's raw for about $600, polished up and modified a bit for $800.

Ed

[Patrice]

Sorry to hijack this thread, but here's what my mom's got:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...DME:B:WNA:US:12

She own's the same exact sewing machine. I was wondering if a qualified sewing machine tech could modified my mom's Necchi to sew the same material as the seller on ebay?

I would like to know what you think about such modification :biggrin:

[pella]

I buy the boss because it the less expensive machine that can sew heavy harness traces 3/4" material...

[Hoyden]

I've been searching for the right machine for what I need to do for awhile. I've been testing out several machines to see if it can sew together 2 pieces of each of the following leathers; 9 - 11 oz. latigo, 13 - 15 oz. stirrup leathers, 10/12 oz. harness leather and 11/12 oz. sole leather.

So far, I've found that the Consew 206RB-5 and the TacSew 111W-155 Compound walking foot have been able to sew through with no problem. I haven't found a place where I can test out the Artisan or the Toro yet. There is a Pfaff place a couple hours away that I plan on visiting.

I DID try the Tipman Boss machine and let me tell you, that bloody machine would tick off a Saint. I am patient and very machanically inclined and it was all I could do to keep from taking a dead blow hammer to it. My friend uses it to sew all kinds of leather goods that he sells at Renaissance Faires from clothing to pouches and belts, so he is familiar with it, but it's not for me. I'd rather hand sew that use that beast.

I am going to look at some older singers in the new couple of weeks.

These are the first ones I did and they were done by hand, but this is what I would be sewing together

[esantoro]

I've been searching for the right machine for what I need to do for awhile. I've been testing out several machines to see if it can sew together 2 pieces of each of the following leathers; 9 - 11 oz. latigo, 13 - 15 oz. stirrup leathers, 10/12 oz. harness leather and 11/12 oz. sole leather.

So far, I've found that the Consew 206RB-5 and the TacSew 111W-155 Compound walking foot have been able to sew through with no problem. I haven't found a place where I can test out the Artisan or the Toro yet. There is a Pfaff place a couple hours away that I plan on visiting.

I DID try the Tipman Boss machine and let me tell you, that bloody machine would tick off a Saint. I am patient and very machanically inclined and it was all I could do to keep from taking a dead blow hammer to it. My friend uses it to sew all kinds of leather goods that he sells at Renaissance Faires from clothing to pouches and belts, so he is familiar with it, but it's not for me. I'd rather hand sew that use that beast.

I am going to look at some older singers in the new couple of weeks.

These are the first ones I did and they were done by hand, but this is what I would be sewing together

Hoyden,

On Ebay right now there are a Highlead (similar to the Artisan 4000 and Pro 2000) compound feed and a barely used Juki 471 that should go for a bit under $2000.

Ed