I'm confused about the purpose of some of these products

[Chris623]

I stopped by Tandy's yesterday to pick up some dye for a sheath I'm making.  While there, I bumped into a lady who claimed to have been carving leather for a "couple of years now" and asked what I was looking for and what was my project.  Told her I was making a knife sheath that I wanted to dye and antique.  I had already chosen the dye and had it in hand.  She reached up on the shelf and handed me two bottles.  One was Pro Resist and the other was Tan Coat.  I "think" she said the Pro Resist goes on top of the stain to protect it while applying antique and the Tan Coat was to go on top of the antique to keep it from rubbing off on things, i.e. clothing, etc.    Since I'm not positive of the order I "think" she told me, I got on the Internet and looked up the uses of each of those two items.  It seems that either one of them could be used as a sealer or top-coat.  So now this newbie stands confused, holding one bottle in each hand.   Which product is for which purpose?

[YinTx]

Generally speaking you would use one or the other, although it is reasonable that one might use both products depending on the result you wanted to get.  They are usually used when you have tooled or stamped leather, and you want to apply antique.  They would be used as a "resist" to keep the antique from darkening certain areas of the leather, and to allow the antique to highlight the tooling and carving.  If you don't have tooling, usually you wouldn't use antique but dye only.  Again, this is an art, so you can get different effects by using different techniques in different orders on your project.

You would use Tan Kote to lift the remaining antique off the leather after you have buffed it off using sheepskin (or towel, etc).  Some would stop there, others like to put a final seal coat with Resolene, although you could use Pro Resist as a seal coat (it is a more shiny finish).

Hopefully this helps a little.

YinTx

[Chris623]

Well, my sheath is stamped and I plan on antiquing it.  Sorry, guess I'm just thick headed, but your explanation has me even more confused.  Don't mean to sound argumentative or unappreciative of the advice.   I'm just new to all of this and don't understand the sequence.

You say I could use one or the other, or both.   Huh???    I could use Tan Kote to lift the remaining antique off.  Why would I want to lift off what I just put on?  I did "get" that Pro Resist is a little more shiny than Resolene................but I don't have any Resolene, so that wasn't a concern.

[battlemunky]

Let me put it to you this way...think in layers here:

1. pro-resist
2. tankote to lift off excess antique
3. antique
4. resist (pro-resist or tan kote)
5. targeted/full dying
6. stamping/tooling
7. leather

Tan Kote can be used to take some of the muddiness out of antiquing, which seems to occur sometimes. It brightens it up, for lack of a better word.

If you search YouTube for "leather resist" it may help demonstrate what we're trying to explain in words.

[Kcstott]

16 minutes ago, Chris623 said:

Well, my sheath is stamped and I plan on antiquing it.  Sorry, guess I'm just thick headed, but your explanation has me even more confused.  Don't mean to sound argumentative or unappreciative of the advice.   I'm just new to all of this and don't understand the sequence.

You say I could use one or the other, or both.   Huh???    I could use Tan Kote to lift the remaining antique off.  Why would I want to lift off what I just put on?  I did "get" that Pro Resist is a little more shiny than Resolene................but I don't have any Resolene, so that wasn't a concern.

why you would want to lift off the antique? well you only want to high light the deeper parts of the carving. I have zero experience carving and staining but from what I see makers do is. apply a resist to the top high spots of the carving. then completely cover the carving with the "stain" antique i guess. then they wait a bit and remove the excess and they are left with a beautiful antiqued finish. 

[Kcstott]

 

[Chris623]

Thanks for the video.  I've seen it previously.  I've watched a lot of his videos and really respect his work and videos.

I'm a retired custom furniture building and completely understand the process of antiquing by darkening the recesses and wiping the highlights.  But Yin-Tex said "use Tan Kote to lift the remaining antique off the leather".  I was just questioning why one would want to lift the remaining antique off?   The idea is to leave some of it on the project.

Okay, here's what my planned sequence is...........correct me it it's wrong.

1. Wipe the leather with rubbing alcohol to make sure no oils are on the surface.

2. Dye the leather.  Allow to dry.

3. Thoroughly cover the dyed leather with Pro Resist.  Allow to dry.

4. Cover the sheath in Antiquing material.  Immediately wipe off excess to expose desired highlights.  Allow antique to dry.

5. Finish with Tan Kote.

Do I have it right or am I still misunderstanding something?

 

 

[battlemunky]

1 hour ago, Chris623 said:

Thanks for the video.  I've seen it previously.  I've watched a lot of his videos and really respect his work and videos.

I'm a retired custom furniture building and completely understand the process of antiquing by darkening the recesses and wiping the highlights.  But Yin-Tex said "use Tan Kote to lift the remaining antique off the leather".  I was just questioning why one would want to lift the remaining antique off?   The idea is to leave some of it on the project.

Okay, here's what my planned sequence is...........correct me it it's wrong.

1. Wipe the leather with rubbing alcohol to make sure no oils are on the surface.

2. Dye the leather.  Allow to dry.

3. Thoroughly cover the dyed leather with Pro Resist.  Allow to dry.

4. Cover the sheath in Antiquing material.  Immediately wipe off excess to expose desired highlights.  Allow antique to dry.

5. Finish with Tan Kote.

Do I have it right or am I still misunderstanding something?

 

 

That is what I do but I'd hit it with a final coat of Resolene or Pro-resist after the Tan Kote. The Tan Kote is going to help clean up some of the antique from the high spots that are residual from the wipe-ification (science werds) process. The crud in the deep spots will stay behind while the Tan Kote "cleans" up the higher spots and then one last coat of Pro-resist will seal it all up.

[Chris623]

Thanks, battlemunky.

[YinTx]

14 hours ago, Chris623 said:

But Yin-Tex said "use Tan Kote to lift the remaining antique off the leather".

You will discover that there is still some antique on the elevated sections that you want to remove, even after you have wiped it off.  Don even shows some videos where he uses the Tan Kote to clean this up, and you can see his pieces clean up nicely when he does this, and you can see the antique come off onto his sheepskin.  Plenty of antique stays on the valleys and crevices not to mention it will stain the leather in these places so even if you do pull it out (which kinda you do want to, so you don't have antique caked in there, it would crumble out when it dries if you leave that much - presuming you are using paste antique) these places will remain darker.  If you watched the referenced video, he clearly describes the intent at the 26 minute mark or so.

Not sure why you are worried about removing any oil on the leather.  Old timers used the acronym "ONAT" for the process:  Add Oil, then Neatlac, then Antique, then Tan Kote.  If you add alcohol to the leather, you will dry it out.  If you've dyed it, that will dry it out.  You will probably want to add Neatsfoot oil to it to help restore the oil content and nourish the leather. (a little goes a long way). If you let this set overnight, then add the resist, it will be just fine.  Don also demonstrates this, he uses olive oil.  In fact the first nearly 12 minutes of that video discuss this.

You didn't mention what kind of antique you have.  Are you using paste like Don shows, or do you have the gel antique?

YinTx

Edited October 21, 2020 by YinTx

[Chris623]

Thanks for all the clarification, YinTx.

I'm just gathering things as I go.  Don't have any antique yet, but was planning on paste.

I was only saying I'd wipe the leather with rubbing alcohol just because that's what my friend at the shoe repair told me to do. He said if there was any oil on the leather, the dye wouldn't penetrate uniformly.  I had already dyed the leather when he gave the advice, so it was a moot point.  I won't do that in the future.

So I should add a thin coat of Neatsfoot Oil to the leather before my Resist?

[YinTx]

1 hour ago, Chris623 said:

Thanks for all the clarification, YinTx.

I'm just gathering things as I go.  Don't have any antique yet, but was planning on paste.

I was only saying I'd wipe the leather with rubbing alcohol just because that's what my friend at the shoe repair told me to do. He said if there was any oil on the leather, the dye wouldn't penetrate uniformly.  I had already dyed the leather when he gave the advice, so it was a moot point.  I won't do that in the future.

So I should add a thin coat of Neatsfoot Oil to the leather before my Resist?

NP.  I have a lot of antique, and I have migrated towards highlighter or gel antique.  Alcohol can remove impurities that may cause uneven dye, yes.  I've oiled before dye before as well with good results.  Not very often that I would consider not adding oil to veg tan leather.  Look forward to seeing your results, and consider experimenting on sample bits before you go after your project.

YinTx

[Chris623]

I just oiled it with Light Olive Oil.  Will wait until tomorrow to apply the Fiebings Pro Resist.  I need to make a trip to Tandy's to get some antique.  I get so many opinions on antique it's funny.  You say you've migrated to Gel and others tell me they've migrated to paste.  Guess it's just a personal opinion thing.  On my furniture, I used a thinned artist's oil paint................and few of my fellow furniture makers used that method.  Personal opinions...........and what you get used to.

[Chris623]

Patience is not one of my more well known virtues.  I oiled the sheath with light olive oil 3 hours ago.  I watched a video a couple of weeks ago that mentioned "you'll think you ruined the piece when you oil it"........................the presenter was right. He also said to be patient and it'll go back closer to the original color over night.  We'll see.   I had my sheath dyed a really nice looking Saddle Tan and it's far............far..................................far from it now.  I'll try and quit looking at it until in the morning, but right now it's a huge disappointment.

[Bigfoote]

Everyone has a slightly different technique, and method of antiquing and use of other products. You have to do a little experimenting and find out what works for you, then stick with your process. I use gel antique for dye, have for years because it works for me. I also use resolene for a resist, and top coat, but others use different products. Whatever works for you is the proper method, and you won't find that process unless you mess around a bit. That is what that big pile of scrap leather is for, and if you don't have any, most leather shops sell small chunks of leather cheap.

[Chris623]

Thanks, Bigfoote.

[YinTx]

8 hours ago, Chris623 said:

I get so many opinions on antique it's funny.

Yes.  That is why I have so many different types now.  Paste, highlighter, gel, etc.  It really does just depend on the look you want for the project you are on, and how comfortable you are using each type.

As far as oil, a little bit goes a long long way.  I've seen folks literally douse things in it, but I prefer a very light coat to keep it from getting to soft and soggy.  You can't take it out.  But it will distribute evenly over time, so if the leather is thick, then the color will lighten up as it permeates further into the piece.  You'll have a better idea in the morning!

YinTx

[battlemunky]

Speaking of oil, how's it look today @Chris623? Even if its still a little dark today, give it until tomorrow.

[Chris623]

Well, battlemunky, I had to put on my bathrobe and go out to the shop to check it, but it's better than yesterday.  Almost where I'd like it to be.  Should I wait for it to lighten up to where I want before putting my Resist on it?

[battlemunky]

3 hours ago, Chris623 said:

Well, battlemunky, I had to put on my bathrobe and go out to the shop to check it, but it's better than yesterday.  Almost where I'd like it to be.  Should I wait for it to lighten up to where I want before putting my Resist on it?

Depending on how heavy it went on it may need some time to absorb/disperse but its probably good. If you are able to handle it and not have oil transfer onto your hands it should be ok to put on some resist.

[Chris623]

I put on the Resist and after it dried I Antiqued with Dark Fiebing's.  Did two coats of the Antique.  Topped that with two coats of Tan Kote.  It's considerably darker than I'd hoped or intended, but I have to admit I like it.  I bought some Brown Edge Coat.  The color just doesn't look right on it.  Wish I'd bought Black.  I think it would have looked better with the Black handle of the Buck knife.  Will have to get some and re-do that step. 

Ran into a problem.  Have to drill my holes.  Since I used the stitching irons prior to my stamping.............and the stamping caused the top piece to stretch, my irons won't match the hole spacing now...............so can't punch the other layers.  Will have to drill the holes for the stitching.  Whew!  Learning a lot on this first one, for sure.

[battlemunky]

POIDH!

[Chris623]

Ha-ha.................had to look that one up.  I'm not that savvy!

It's not finished yet.  When the stitching is done, I'll post pics.

[YinTx]

Yes, Tan Kote is like a light resist, Resolene and Pro Resist is a stronger resist for antique.  Also, I tend to wait overnight for the resist to really cure, because the antique can act as a solvent and remove the resist if it isn't fully cured. The 4 hours between your two posts would hardly be enough time around here for it to cure. With Tan Kote, I'd even use two coats depending on the look I wanted.  I don't like edge kote, even after a few months, I found a wet towel will lift it right off the edge of the leather. Also don't like the results with it.  I've had much better luck with just using dye on the edge and burnishing it.

Look forward to seeing your results!

YinTx

[battlemunky]

2 hours ago, Chris623 said:

Ha-ha.................had to look that one up.  I'm not that savvy!

It's not finished yet.  When the stitching is done, I'll post pics.