FESM-550S w/ reducer vs SP-1100-NPFL

[hanns]

Hello,

I recently posted about choosing my first industrial machine - thanks to everyone who chimed in to help there. I am going with the Juki 1541S and wanted to discuss the pros and cons of the motor setups I'm looking at to make a more educated purchasing decision.

Cost difference: $10 - negligible.
Typical use case: Sewing through 8-10 oz bridle + two layers of 4 oz soft leather. Would like headroom to ensure power isn't an issue if I need to use heavier material for some projects.

These pros and cons are based on my research so far, including reading a lot of threads here, not actual experience. Please feel free to correct me if something seems off and/or add your own experiences.

FESM-550S w/ reducer - PROS

• Gold standard - used by lots of people, known to work well.
• Very slow speeds possible. Maximum controllability.
• Reducer can be used with a variety of motors. Easy/cheaper to replace motor if it poops out.

FESM-550S w/ reducer - CONS

• Reducer is a heavy cast iron wheel that might introduce some additional momentum into the system that the motor has to brake. Anyone have issues with this in reality? Might not be an issue at low speeds anyway.
• Reducer makes for a more mechanically complex setup compared to other methods of slowing things down (smaller output wheel, larger hand wheel, motor that supports very low speed/high torque out of the gate).
• Less powerful motor for the money (reducer itself costs more than the motor), though still plenty to do the job.

SP-1100-NPFL - PROS

• Every account I've read so far has described this as a torque monster even at low speeds. Probably overkill for me, but nice to know I'd never want for power.
• Simpler setup with detached control box in easy reach.
• Comes with the needle positioner, which seems cool, but might not be needed at slow speeds anyway, and could just be another gizmo to break.

SP-1100-NPFL - CONS

• Expensive - if this motor poops out, high replacement cost since I can't just slap a $150 servo on it and call it good without a reducer.
• Not as time-tested as the 550S/reducer setup.
• Perhaps not able to reach the low speed/high torque abilities you can get with a reducer (without aftermarket mods)? Can anyone chime in on this?

Question: Which of these setups would you choose to power your new machine if you were buying today, new to using a sewing machine, and wanted a reliable low speed setup that has room to grow for the future?

Or should I just toss a coin because they're both pretty darn good?

[Wizcrafts]

 

4 hours ago, hanns said:

Question: Which of these setups would you choose to power your new machine if you were buying today, new to using a sewing machine, and wanted a reliable low speed setup that has room to grow for the future?

I use this combination: FESM-550S w/ reducer. I have multiple sewing machines and some have under the table drop down box reducers while others have wheel reducers that mount under and to the right of the v-belt slot. If the machine is a flat bed, a box reducer may be best because it mounts in place of the motor. The output pulley is on the same angle as the motor used to be. This allows you to tilt back the head for maintenance. It also maintains the position of the belt so it can be used with a stand alone bobbin winder.

By-the-slot wheel reducers are a little trickier to install and change the geometry of the belt feeding the machine. This will interfere with an external bobbin winder and make it difficult to tilt the head back for repairs and oiling the underneath shafts. However, if tilting the head isn't anticipated, the wheel reducers work just fine. I use them on a couple of cylinder arm machines. External bobbin winders can be re positioned to contact the belt.

Two of my walking foot machines go direct from the motor to the machine. The FESM motors from my supplier have a 45mm pulley and give decent reduction. However, the Family Sew motors have less torque at slower speed dial settings. So, I don't set them at the slowest number, but move up one or two clicks and feather the foot pedal as needed. One is mounted on an 18" arm Consew 206RB-18 and it works well enough to sew 3/4 inch box patterns on cloth pull straps sewn onto blackout window blinds.

If you need high torque without a speed reducer, nothing beats a 1/2 or 3/4 horsepower clutch motor. You can back out the clutch adjuster for more free play and feather the clutch. This requires a steady foot and has a learning curve. But, this is how it was done before servo motors were commonplace. Two of my machines still have clutch motors and work just fine.

 

[kgg]

Another couple of considerations to adding a speed reducer which will depend on the style you choose. Sometimes adding a speed reducer involves cutting the belt slot longer to allow for the new belt angle and location. You are probably going to have to drill additional holes through the table top to mount the speed reducer and sometimes depending on where the K-legs are mounted you may have to relocate the the whole top further to the left, just depends on who mounted the table top to the support K-legs. Even though the 1541 has a front mounted bobbin winder should yours fail you may find it cheaper / easier to just add a belt driven winder which may or may not be able be done if the belt slot has been lengthen.

For some not being able to tilt the machine back easily is of no real concern for me it is a major concern as I tilt my flatbeds back all the time to change the bobbin as my fingers are to fat to fit comfortably underneath to remove/ install a bobbin properly.

kgg

[Wizcrafts]

2 hours ago, kgg said:

For some not being able to tilt the machine back easily is of no real concern for me it is a major concern as I tilt my flatbeds back all the time to change the bobbin as my fingers are to fat to fit comfortably underneath to remove/ install a bobbin properly.

This situation is resolved by using a drop-down box style reducer. It replaces the motor under the table, maintaining the original belt angle. The motor bolts to the bottom of the box.

[hanns]

10 hours ago, Wizcrafts said:

By-the-slot wheel reducers are a little trickier to install and change the geometry of the belt feeding the machine. This will interfere with an external bobbin winder and make it difficult to tilt the head back for repairs and oiling the underneath shafts.

I should have mentioned that I am looking at Keystone for my vendor since I'm somewhat local to them and may be able to arrange a pickup. The speed reducer they offer is the SR-2, not the box type, and not being able to tilt the machine back seems like it would be a real pain to me. I suppose another option would be to order the machine with the FESM motor and no speed reducer, then order the box style reducer separately and install myself.

4 hours ago, kgg said:

You are probably going to have to drill additional holes through the table top to mount the speed reducer and sometimes depending on where the K-legs are mounted you may have to relocate the the whole top further to the left, just depends on who mounted the table top to the support K-legs. Even though the 1541 has a front mounted bobbin winder should yours fail you may find it cheaper / easier to just add a belt driven winder which may or may not be able be done if the belt slot has been lengthen.

Hmm, I think I assumed that if I ordered the machine with the speed reducer, it would be set up for me and I didn't think about the issues around installing it. I'll have to ask that question.

I'm curious if anyone has feedback on the SP-1100. What I'm seeing so far is the reducer is known to work well, but it comes with its own set of issues. Could the SP-1100 be used without a reducer to the same or similar effect and not have to deal with the installation and belt geometry issues of a reducer?

[kgg]

1 hour ago, Wizcrafts said:

This situation is resolved by using a drop-down box style reducer. It replaces the motor under the table, maintaining the original belt angle. The motor bolts to the bottom of the box.

For me I have never felt that I needed to add a speed reducer. I find the plain jane brush type servo motors give me all the speed control that I so far have needed. Like Wiz I still have a couple clutch motor setups for when I need to punish myself. The problem or potential problem when a speed reducer is coupled with a high torque motor as that arrangement has the potential of over torquing the machine head parts. Having to much available motor power and the additional available torque provided by the speed reducer can be worst (twisted parts, unwanted trips of safety clutch, etc.) then an under sized servo motor. The best thing would be to ask the advice of the supplier of your machine for their recommendations as to the proper sizing of both the servo motor and speed reducer.

kgg

[RemingtonSteel]

Looking at Keystone's website, it looks like the Juki 1541S with the SP-1100-NPFL lists for about $550 more than the 1541S with the FESM-550S motor.  Get the one with the FESM-550S, and if you are still concerned about torque, get a speed reducer for $180 dollars.  You will still be approx $370 ahead of the game, and you can spend that money on other accessories that will make more of a difference, unless you really want the needle positioner. 

I was looking at both motors, and I just added the 550S to my 441 clone (already had a speed reduce with a clutch motor), and it will punch through 4 layers of 20 year old 11oz leather (that’s almost a full 3/4 inch thick), at a snail’s pace.  That is slightly more than twice the thickness of what 1541S is capable of sewing through. Oh, and by the way, turning up the speed dial to its max will run this machine far faster than I would be comfortable sewing veg tanned leather at, so a speed reducer does not translate to too slow a top end speed with this motor.

[SARK9]

On 3/10/2021 at 12:36 PM, hanns said:

I should have mentioned that I am looking at Keystone for my vendor since I'm somewhat local to them and may be able to arrange a pickup. The speed reducer they offer is the SR-2, not the box type, and not being able to tilt the machine back seems like it would be a real pain to me.

We have actually covered this old saw several times. There are multiple ways to retain the usual  "tilt back" when using a wheel-type reducer. One universal rule is to mount the reducer so that its axle's rotation point is very slightly behind the  hinge pin location on your machine. This unloads the belt upon tilt and everything is business as usual. I have had a variety of machines all using reducers with brushless motors and still have 4 set up that way now.  Carry on.

-DC