Singer 51W56 needle bar conversion

[eddo]

I've picked up a singer 51W56, well worn, missing a few small screws around the post, but very tight and in good condition internally.  Interesting to see one of those cotton/ string drive belts as used in the much later Singer 306. I understand a couple of you at least have done a needle bar conversion on similar machines?  I'm finding it hard to decide. My hook is in fine condition- so do I need to change the system?  I probably don't want to push the machine beyond M40/ Tex70 thread size/ size 21/22 needles, given I have the 45k for heavier stuff. There is one schmetz 110 size needle which came in the machine- not sure if it the right system though-  the hook passes very close the eye on the upstroke as if this needle is too short. So looking for advice:

• What needle system should I use-  I understand its 128, but does anyone have any idea of what the different variants of the 128 system mean?  i.e. 128-2, 3 and 4 I think I've seen in manuals...Any idea where I'll find needles if I choose to keep this odd system-  seems there are US based suppliers but not easily acquired elsewhere (US postage to Aus seems expensive)?
• How difficult is the changeover if I do it? -  My 56 has a short needle bar that  terminates at the bar clamp- i.e.does not project to the top of the machine- Constabulary your special variant model has a much different looking needle bar, and looks a beefier machine in general with a different internal drive setup. Dikman I think I recall you doing a conversion on a different 51??
• I'd like to change my bar out it if it will work well and allow me to use the same 135x17/ DPX17 as with my Consew 226r.

Edited July 25, 2021 by eddo
written error

[Constabulary]

Yours appears to be the 2nd model of the 51w and to me it looks like it has a smaller diameter needle bar than the 1st model (which I own). Looks like you have a fairly long bottom bushing but no top bushing (due to short needle bar). I only can judge from pictures as I never have touched a 2nd model 51w. I guess the NB on your 51w has a 6.35mm diameter. Therefore you could use a Singer 107w / 143w or Singer 111w needle bar. Take a measure on your 226R - I assume it has a needle bar with the same diameter as the 51w shown. If that's the case it will be an easy task. You probably have to shorten the new NB.

Edited July 25, 2021 by Constabulary

[eddo]

Thankyou-  I was thinking (also in relation to your link to the green machine dude) that just shortening a new bar would work fine. I do however notice a 'plug' in the top where a second bushing could be added for extra guidance with a longer bar- this might just tap out and might make for better bar guidance...  I like your adaptation of presser bar screw to do the job of a second top bush.  

So.. I have measured by needle bar diameter with the not-so-good plastic vernier I have here to be around 6.3mm as you state for the 111w bar, so I will just purchase one of those initially and see how it fits. My Consew is 400km away on the other side of another Covid border closure unfortunately, but I'll work that out. 

I'll report on results down the track.  As an aside, the 51W came with  nice old singer table with one of those separated inline clutches (4 pulley options)-  I re-used one of these with success as a speed reducer pulley set on my Consew by locking in the 4th pulley, so I might use this one here in the same way- and I should share this idea as well...

[Jholden0]

In reference to the needle bar guides, I have found a bushing that is the perfect length and almost perfect diameter.  I sanded it down a little to reduce the diameter and it works very well.  If you are interested, I can send you the link.  It drops into the guide hole on top and wedges itself in place.  The inner diameter is prefect as is for the singer 111w needle bar.  

[Constabulary]

@Jholden0 if you don´t mind please post a parts number and a source link. That for sure will be helpful for future NB conversions on similar machines.

[Jholden0]

It's actually not a sewing machine part.  It's a bushing that I found with very similar dimensions.  I'm attaching a photo of it and I'll also add the link. I purchased quite a few from Aliexpress.  I had to stick it into the chuck of my drill press and file it down about 1mm.  Now there may be something out there that doesn't require filing. However,  based on my research, and not having access to a lathe, this was the best option for the 111w needle bar.

 

https://a.aliexpress.com/_mLsNiS7

 

 

[Jholden0]

[Constabulary]

You seem to have the early version of the 51w - a Singer 211 needle feed bar or 111w151 needle feed needle bar (or similar) would have been easier I´d say. That way you can use the OEM lower bushing and only have to add a bushing on the top. Keep in mind the needle bar has to fit the needle bar clamp. Your clamp seems to have a larger diameter than the 111 triple feed needle bar you have used. But not sure though, hard to tell from the picture.

Edited August 27, 2021 by Constabulary

[eddo]

Thanks all.. For my 51w56 the 111w needle bar arrived yesterday and fitted fine.. Didn't need to trim at all as the excess length fits inside the machine head. A 5 minute changeover. Hope the $11 Chinese bar holds up! Happy to post any pics if requested. 

[Jholden0]

Constabulary, can you please help me. I thought that the setup I posted above would work. But to my dismay, it was another disaster with this machine. I do have the original needle bar machine.  It's 8.5 mm in diameter.  I have ordered 8 needle bars total and I am at a complete loss. The needle bar clamp is too large for the 111 needle bar.   Do you happen to have the part number for the needle bar you used?  I can figure out the bushing hopefully.  But this machine is close to being smashed down into scrap.  Haha.  Please, please help.

 

[Constabulary]

I have used a needle bar of a 111w needle feed machine (see my post from Aug 27).

The 111 series had 2 different needle bars. One for triple feed machines (small diameter) one for needle feed machines (larger diameter).

Reg. the 51w - the early one (the one you and I have) needs the large diameter NB and the later 51w (the one eddo has) needs the small diameter NB.

Let me check if I can figure a bushing you could use.

EDIT:

Singer 111w foot bar bushing should fit the NB but I´m not sure if it is long enough so check with the dealer for measures.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/302295485545

EDIT II:

measure your NB again - mine is ~ 8.74mm

 

Edited September 13, 2021 by Constabulary

[Jholden0]

Thank you, I ordered the bushing after validation that it is correct.  Also, you are correct about the diameter of my needle bar.  Thank you again for your help.  I owe you.

[Btibbett]

I have a 51w56 and the string timing belt is next to impossible to locate a replacement part number 234-003. Does any one know if there is an Equivalent? Or a point in a different direction I have called everyone on google. At this point I’m considering sewing together 2 timing belts from the 306. And see if I can make a strong enough splice. I’m at wits end with this. 

[Constabulary]

Can´t really help but in case you find a neoprene / rubber timing belt with he right width tooth measures and tooth distance from another Singer machine you can try splicing the belt / making one out of two.

LW member @Thomo did this with a 307G2 timing belt which is obsolete too.

Just an idea - check this:

 

 

[whistlingrits]

On 9/10/2021 at 6:34 AM, eddo said:

Thanks all.. For my 51w56 the 111w needle bar arrived yesterday and fitted fine.. Didn't need to trim at all as the excess length fits inside the machine head. A 5 minute changeover. Hope the $11 Chinese bar holds up! Happy to post any pics if requested. 

Hey, did you have to do anything with hook timing and needle clearance? I just acquired a 51W55 machine and would like to modify it to fit other needles besides leather needles and when I asked my local sewing machine shop about it they mentioned that hook timing and needle clearance will come in to account. Did you just swap out the needle bar and it worked?

[Constabulary]

When the needle - hook timing was right at your machine and it worked properly with this setting and when your new needle bar is in you have to adjust the needle bar height. The procedure is mentioned in the manual on Page 14. Does not matter what needle system you are using, the procedure is the same.

 

51W51,W52,W53-Inst.pdf

Edited July 26, 2023 by Constabulary