Singer 45K68 (converted)

[Davidmadd]

Hi All - Back in June 2017 I posted a series of photos and asked for help in getting my Singer 45K68 up and running.  It started quite a debate as this particular machine from 1912 does not have a lower thread tension disc set on the left front and the upper one is in fact a solid pulley.

The information gained from Jimi, Constabulary and others showed me that the original "Sole Stitcher" had been converted with later parts to a more conventional cylinder arm machine.  With the new knowledge I set to to get the machine working properly.  I noticed that the needle was hitting the edge of the hole in the needle plate and being deflected and rubbing on the face of the hook.  I thought that the needle arm may be bent so rotated it through 180 degrees and it was then way further out in the other direction so I made a new needle bar and drilled it for the needle centrally.  This certainly helped but I then needed to increase the shims behind the lower casing, the bit that holds the hook in and is held in with the two sprung fingers.  I then got it all aligned properly so the gap between needle and hook was correct without the needle hitting anything and it would now sew, or at least go through the motions but it did not create consistent stitches. 

I played around with the tension and in the end added a couple of spare tension arrangements to a temporary fitting on top of the machine.  So I now had needle correct and tension acceptable but still irregular stitches.  I noticed that on the head end of the top shaft there is a cam and that lifts the presser foot momentarily, but there seems no logic in the time when it lifts the foot?? It does not marry up with when the feed dogs are trying to move anything or just after the leather has been moved forward. I also noticed that the stitching problem occurs because there appears to be too much loose thread in the vicinity of the needle as it punctures the leather and sometimes this loose thread gets caught up with the needle.  Its as if there should be a tension check spring to keep that thread tight at the right moment.  Now there is a mechanism inside the head that moves the two levers through which the thread passes on the left from face and one of those levers goes through the motion that a check spring or take up lever would make, but not at the correct time.  It certainly does lift up a quantity of thread but the max lift occurs whilst the needle has just started its descent and by the time the needle goes through the leather there is too much loose thread.

It would seem that I have a timing issue here with the cam that lifts the presser foot and the check spring arm slightly out of sync with the the main shaft rotating the hook????

Anyone any ideas as to what the correct timing might be, where that timing might be adjusted and any timing marks to look out for????  I have searched the internet but there seems little info on these big old machines.

Once again any help and advice to solve this issue will be greatly appreciated.......

[Constabulary]

Maybe you like to show us some pictures of your machine. And a video will probably better explain the issue.

 regarding timing - I think the post #3 in this thread will help you with the timing:

 

Edited July 29, 2021 by Constabulary

[Davidmadd]

Thanks to Constabularly for his note, I'm pretty confident that I have the needle to hook timing OK, as that can only be done by altering needle bar height, but its possibly the timing of the movement of the two arms that act as the "check spring". Also the cam that lifts the presser foot?-  What is the purpose?, and when should it occur??  I must say I havent dismantled the internals of this machine, and purposely am trying to avoid that.  I did strip down a Singer 132K6 into its component parts, have cleaned everything and found nothing to prevent it working again, accept that its still in hundreds of pieces and has been for several years.  I hope it will go back together but my memory of which order is now a bit hazy.......

I will try to get a video together of the action and post it shortly..

Regards David

[jimi]

Hi David, Here is a short video that will show what your foot does when sewing. On the 45k68,69 and71 the definition is "Drop Feed, Needle Bar Cam, Compound Take-up and High Lift". The normal 45k1 etc.. were "Drop Feed, Needle Bar Link", and the 45k56 and 89 were "Drop Feed, Needle Bar Link, Vibrating and Climbing Presser. So your cam is to ease the pressure between the foot and the teeth by lifting up the foot slightly instead of it being pushed only by the teeth of the feed dog.

 

[Davidmadd]

Many thanks Jimi From the video it looks as if your machine is virtually identical to my own. Especially as you also have the two arms moving in opposite directions on the left front of the machine.  My query really is is my machine moving those two arms at the correct time?, in relation to the needle descent.  I would have thought that they needed to be at their maximum separation just as the needle penetrates the material thus assuring that there is no slack thread around the needle as it goes through the fabric.  Also the cam lift, when should that occur.  Your own machine obviously sews just as it should.  I am looking at ways to slow your video clip down but I am not particularly good with video editing etc.  On my machine the two arms are at max separation when the needle is virtually at its highest point. The cam lifts the foot whilst the needle is fully penetrated and the feed dogs are underneath the level of the needle plate and then again as the needle exits the material.  This may well be correct and there may be no way of adjusting when these two actions happen.  I must admit that I have now changed the thread from a linen thread to bonded nylon and it has been sewing quite successfully without the thread interfering with the needle as it penetrates causing uneven stitches.  Many thanks for your response to my query.  I intend to get a video clip of the machine working but this may take me a little while as I have never uploaded a video before so I may need a little practise!!!

Best Regards   David

[jimi]

This is just a video i found on the internet, this is not my machine otherwise i would have made a video trying to explain this cam motion but it looks like from the video if you put the speed to the lowest in the settings-playback speed you can see the needle looks like it is in the down position when the foot is raised by the cam? Maybe if you could taka a picture of the head from the front with the cover off? 

[Davidmadd]

OK Jimi, will do......

[Davidmadd]

Hi Jimi - I have tried to get a video clip and have hopefully made something that will indicate what is happening even if not best quality.  I cant figure out how to attach it so have used a link:- https://photos.app.goo.gl/fdeRZsMGum25Kv286

I cant remove the front cover whilst operating the machine as the mechanism that controls the thread control arms is attached to the inside of the cover.  You may be able to see when the cam lifts the feed dog by carefully watching the piece of leather being fed through the machine.  In fact the circular plate attached to the front of the upper shaft controls the cam to lift presser feet, the needle position and the thread control arms.  They are all controlled from pins on the circular plate and there is no adjustment so in fact all those functions are locked together so cannot get out of sync with each other.  There may be a way to alter the position of the circular plate in relation to the bottom shaft but that would then mean that the needle position is wrong but it may be that a slight adjustment to the attachment point inside the column might be able to alter things, if indeed they are deemed to be incorrect, but at the moment, using M20 Bonded nylon, the stitch is looking pretty good.

I couldn't get a fourth photo included as these three took up all my allowance.

Best Regards

David

[jimi]

Thanks for the photos and the video David, judging from the video from youtube of the other 68 and yours it looks pretty much the same?? it is hard to see even in slow motion, i see that small lift when the needle goes in and on the other youtube video it looks like on the top it also is synchronized the same as yours when the needle enters the leather so this must be at the correct position then?? I must be wrong then in saying that it should lift to help pass on the leather?? I would have imagined some kind of adjustment for the thread tension on the take up also but it looks like the small post for that on the left is in a fixed position at the end of the curved arm which swings left to right inside the head?? the large screw on the plate being the pivot point?? is that correct?. I also remember when using linen thread on the machine it made a small twist-loop before entering the leather? a #207 bonded nylon thread works good in these machines with about a #22 needle. Maybe someone with this specific machine (or very similar) here on the forum could shed some light on the adjustments if any are possible. You done a good job with the needle bar and the fixing it with the shims David, well done. If you are up and sewing then that is a good sign.