Singer 17-23 hook to needle clearance

[Wyowally]

Wanting to know the right way to adjust this, can't find any internet help so far..... The hook is barely striking the needle right now, but it is.

[LanceR]

Sorry that I can't help with the adjustment but if you haven't already put in a new needle, I suggest that you do so in order to be sure that the issue isn't a bent needle.

 

Lance

[Wyowally]

The issue is the #24, #25 needle that needs to be used. Heavy thread. Those needles are fat enough the hook tip just ticks the scarf. There is an adjustment screw at the right end of the shuttle shaft, on the outside of the machine base. I think it is just for removing play, and doesn't provide for movement of the shaft at all.

 

Edited November 17, 2021 by Wyowally
more info

[Constabulary]

Well - a #24, #25 needle is IMO out of the comfort zone of a light duty leather machine like the class 17. IMO #22 is the max needle size for a machine of this type. Yes, I know the manual says up to #25 but still. The very small spools do not hold much of the thick thread anyway, not talking about higher foot pressure you may need for a #25 needle.

my 2 cents

EDIT:

Seiko still makes clones of the Singer class 17 (their model is TE-6) and they recommend needles up to #19.

Beside of that - IIRC the class 17 shuttle runs in a race like the CB kooks and I do not think you can move the race further the to the right to allow a larger needle.

 

Edited November 17, 2021 by Constabulary

[Wizcrafts]

According to a previous discussion, you cannot run thicker thread than #135 (Tkt 20), or sew material over ~1/4 inch in a Singer 17-23. In fact, they may not even handle Tkt 20 thread.

[Wizcrafts]

Here is a manual for the Singer 17-22 and 17-23. The last page's details show the needle and thread sizes. The larger needles are for use with linen thread, not bonded nylon or bonded polyester. There wasn't any bonded synthetic thread on the market when thisw machine was released. These threads are too strong and less flexible, compared to the softer linen. So, if you want to sew with large needles, use unwaxed linen thread only.

17-22&17-23-manual.pdf

[Wizcrafts]

I found a YouTube video by Alexander Dyer showing him cleaning and adjusting a Singer 17-23. There are many comments from viewers. He revealed in another place that he was using Tex 105 thread, which he thought was about the maximum size bonded thread it could handle.

 

Here is his webpage explaining his work on the machine, complete with close up photos, which was listed for sale. Note, that his website's security certificate was expired and not yet renewed on November 17, 2021, when I visited the page. I had to bypass a browser security warning to open the page.

[RockyAussie]

3 hours ago, Wizcrafts said:

I found a YouTube video by Alexander Dyer showing him cleaning and adjusting a Singer 17-23. There are many comments from viewers. He revealed in another place that he was using Tex 105 thread, which he thought was about the maximum size bonded thread it could handle.

 

Here is his webpage explaining his work on the machine, complete with close up photos, which was listed for sale. Note, that his website's security certificate was expired and not yet renewed on November 17, 2021, when I visited the page. I had to bypass a browser security warning to open the page.

Is there some safe way to do this Wiz??

[Wizcrafts]

1 hour ago, RockyAussie said:

Is there some safe way to do this Wiz??

Yes. I am a mighty Wizard and I uttered magic words, while opening the page first in WGET Online, after first removing the S from https. This rendered the HTTP page's source code. There wasn't anything suspicious. So, I simply removed the S and it opened as an http website. If the warning persists, simply use Firefox and ignore the warning, accepting the risk. It helps to have the Malwarebytes Browser Plugin installed too. Contact me privately if you need more info about Firefox and Malwarebytes.

Many of the current browser security warnings are due to an expired SSL Certificate that either is late being auto-renewed, or hasn't been paid for automatically by a cert buyer who has a dedicated, semi-dedicated, or VPS server account. It is easy to miss an email notice to authorize the payment if a card on file expires before the renewal takes place.

[Wyowally]

Wiz, thanks for the replies.  I already had the manual (published 1919!) and have watched his video.  He apparently made a shim in order to move the hook and race closer to the needle - the opposite of my issue with the hook kissing the needle scarf. Pretty creative on his part, and perhaps indicative that no real provision was made for adjusting hook-to-needle.

I discovered that it was only the  #25 needle it was touching. My #21's (Organ leather point) don't touch.  Still wondering what the last operator was using it for, or how he was even able to use it. The little curved arm inserted above the upper tension was missing. The check spring was bent to a new shape. He was using - pre-wound bobbin spools with some strange thread. There was a bag tucked into the base with more of the same spools - I found I had to pull considerable thread off in order to fit in the bobbin case.  Such are the adventures when taking on an older neglected machine last run by somebody who had (or chose) to just make do.

I appreciate your comments, will let you know how this turns out.

Edited November 18, 2021 by Wyowally
fixing typos

[Wyowally]

22 hours ago, Constabulary said:

Well - a #24, #25 needle is IMO out of the comfort zone of a light duty leather machine like the class 17. IMO #22 is the max needle size for a machine of this type. Yes, I know the manual says up to #25 but still. The very small spools do not hold much of the thick thread anyway, not talking about higher foot pressure you may need for a #25 needle.

my 2 cents

EDIT:

Seiko still makes clones of the Singer class 17 (their model is TE-6) and they recommend needles up to #19.

Beside of that - IIRC the class 17 shuttle runs in a race like the CB kooks and I do not think you can move the race further the to the right to allow a larger needle.

 

Yes, you're correct. This came to me set up this way but not working. No history, just the evidence of previous use. The foot pressure was cranked all the way down and froze up - I think we know why. I won't  go into all the evidence details, just wish the machine could talk. After a lot of work, I have it stitching belt leather and 1/4"  scrap with a #21 leather needle and #138 thread - hand powered.  I can tell that's all it will do unless connected to a robust power source. I think the effort to turn the balance wheel is a good measure of system efficiency and resistance.  Previous user had actually dinged up the shuttle race trying to get the hook out the wrong way. Dings fixed. The row of stitches at the bottom, ignore the rest.

[RockyAussie]

On 11/18/2021 at 10:02 AM, Wizcrafts said:

Yes. I am a mighty Wizard and I uttered magic words, while opening the page first in WGET Online, after first removing the S from https. This rendered the HTTP page's source code. There wasn't anything suspicious. So, I simply removed the S and it opened as an http website. If the warning persists, simply use Firefox and ignore the warning, accepting the risk. It helps to have the Malwarebytes Browser Plugin installed too. Contact me privately if you need more info about Firefox and Malwarebytes.

Many of the current browser security warnings are due to an expired SSL Certificate that either is late being auto-renewed, or hasn't been paid for automatically by a cert buyer who has a dedicated, semi-dedicated, or VPS server account. It is easy to miss an email notice to authorize the payment if a card on file expires before the renewal takes place.

Thanks for the info Wiz.

[RockyAussie]

Having had a look at Alexander Dyer's video and the ease with which a shim was added I can see no particular reason why a little can not be removed from the shuttle race holder at the rear. It is nice and flat. I was a little concerned about the needle plate movement around the 5 minute 40 sec mark but the dog foot and needle plate have no connection to the shuttle race so I assume the dog foot is rubbing the needle plate slightly but perhaps only because of loose screws.