ebay changes & boycott Feb 18-25

[CitizenKate]

Absolutely you should get compensated for everything you do to deliver that product. But I think most businesses allow for that in the pricing of the merchandise and take it out of the gross margin, rather than charging it directly to customers as shipping fees.

Kate

[Timbo]

So if you went to TLF to make a purchase and got to the register to cash out and they told you that you had to pay for the employees time to stock the merchandise, help you with your buying decision, ring you up and then bag your merchandise on top of the price of merchandise itself........what would you do??? Oh and the plastic bag and receipt cost you another dollar, cause they aren't free either. What would anybody do?????

You know good and well what you would do and that is tell them to keep there stuff and walk out and never come back.

It is called the price of being in business and the merchant pays for it. You make it back by selling merchandise. It's built in to the cost, you don't charge extra for it.

Why is doing business online different????

When I buy on ebay or an ebay store and the merchant wants 9.00 for shipping me a pack of sewing needles.........guess what?? I don't buy them.

When I see an auction and the item is buy it now for 15.00 and shipping is 25.00........guess what?? I don't buy it.

If you can't make your money for the selling price of the item, why is it okay to make it up with shipping and "handling"??? It's not.

I realize a lot of legitimate store front businesses will charge a handling fee for mail order and they always have. But usually it was a pretty nominal fee. Nowadays it seems like everyones time is valuable and they want paid for everything they do for you to complete the transaction. Well folks, you ain't gonna make it from me..........cause that is the price of being in business. This attitude is very prevalent on ebay and I don't condone or support it in any fashion.

If you can't sell on ebay and charge straight "cost of shipping only" fees, then get off ebay and pay for a website and sell your goods as an online retailer.

As for the time and gas it takes to box an item and drive it to the post office.........this is just another part of the cost of being in business. You don't charge for it.

I'm not trying to anger anyone.........I've just worked retail my whole life.

Tim

Edited February 9, 2008 by Timbo

[bcurrier]

I think handling charges are pretty much BS, especially if the vendor is in the mail order business primarily. Shipping varies considerably by carrier and delivery options, so really has to be charged separately, unless there ARE no options offered.

Bill

[wolvenstien]

Timbo, I cant argue with you about this because I do agree with the inflated Shipping and the "hidden" fees.... But... When I buy anything, in a retail store, at the flea market, or on eBay, I add together the price of the item (or the price I am willing to pay) and the taxes.... or shipping.... to the total so i know how much i am about to pay.... If I am looking at an item on ebay and the BIN is $20, and the shipping is $50... thats a total of $70..... am I willing to pay $70 for the item? How much is it new and local? is this total a good deal? Then I make my decision from there.... Same thing when I go to TLF I go look at an item, look the item up in the price guide, and see it is $10... I know the tax here is 9.25% so I automatically add 10% to it for a total of $11.00... do I want to pay this much for the item?

Electric sniping is wrong.... but I cant say it is "CHEATING".... if I get sniped at the last second as I have.... and I was actually willing to pay more for the item than what I did bid... then it is my fault for loosing the bid... I should have bid my very vighest willing bid and then if I were to get sniped the sniper would be a not to mention a

But then again....

Now those that use a third party electronic means of sniping to me are cheating. Just like the guys on the baseball teams who have been using steroids and winning games... the roids help.... no ifs ands or buts about it.... and using an electron means of last second bidding (sniping) gives you an unfair advantage over everyone else..... it's cheating....

just my 2 cents....

[unicornwoman]

Hmm. The responses I'm getting to this sounds like no one understands my business.

One of my main products is kangaroo-lace-by-the-yard to model horse hobbyists, who might only need 1 yard of single width/color. Now there are a lot of hobbyists that would like me to sell it for the price plus 42 cents (note: not 42 cents plus the cost of an envelope).

Let's do the #'s.

1 yard of 1/8 is $1.45 per yard.

The cost of labor and gas are $7.41 (using the low end of 2006 prices)

By your idea, that would mean that I would be charging $8.46/yard. Then, I get to charge actual shipping costs on top of that. Boy, then on the 2nd yard I get to charge the same and the 3rd. WOW! The money is just rolling in!

Now, before you think I'm just joking, there IS a fellow hobbyist that charges much in the way you suggest. She charges $2.99/yd plus $2.00 shipping. She claims to charge exact shipping for larger orders, but doesn't quote what that is.

Say a person wants to purchase 5 yards. Who's the better deal?

Me

5 * $1.45= $7.25

Shipping & Handling: $7.50

Total: $14.75

Her

5*2.99 = $14.95

shipping (unknown, so will use the $2.00)

Total: $16.95

I repeat, I'm not ripping off anyone but myself with my shipping fee of $7.50.

Now, I will grant that my shipping fee favors the larger buyer, but that IS what I want. It isn't worth my time and effort to ship out 1 yard at a time.

[bruce johnson]

I had two off forum questions yesterday, and another this morning on my comparison of ebay and real auctions.

First off on consignments. Locally, feed and tack stores generally charge a 10% fee at minimum for items like a used saddle. Some charge a 15% fee on saddles, and "showcased" new items like a tooled purse or whatever - 25%. Realize that they are selling a line of American West or Montana, and these handmade items are competing items with higher margin items for them.

Auction sales commisions may vary a little but not much. Most used tack sells with a commission of 15-20% on saddles, and may be 25-30% on miscellaneous items. It depends on the sale. Some of the miscellaneous household auction/antique auctions are about 25%. Some of the slightly higher end sales might charge a catalog fee also, to have a better item listed, that varies from $10-25. I am not sure what the high end western collectible auction houses like High Noon and the Cody auction have for seller fees. Pretty safe assumption it isn't 10%.

A "buyers Premium" is basically an auction commission charged to the buyer based on final bid. It is a percentage. For instance if I paid $650 for a saddle, and the buyers premium is 10%, I pay $650 plus $65 bp, or $715. Some premiums are a higher percentage. It is basically another way for the auction company to recoup expenses and make a profit. Some of the sales with high production expenses like Cody and High Noon, most all art auctions, some antique and car auctions do this. Pretty standard deal with a lot of auction companies. It allows the auction whose expenses may be more than the listing fee or sales commission charged to be profitable. Some of the fixed costs could potentially be in the range of 35% of sales prices. Not many sellers want to give 1/3 away, but will allow a 20% commission, and with a 15% buyers premium, the auction company comes out. The American way - profit, it is what keeps us all in business.

[unicornwoman]

I had two off forum questions yesterday, and another this morning on my comparison of ebay and real auctions.

THANKS!!! :jump:

[rawhide1]

unicornwoman

I reckon we'll just have to agree to disagree. I just don't think it's right to charge separate for putting a product in a box and taking it to the PO. I also don't think buyers premiums are right. So I don't buy from places that charge more than actual shipping or auctions that charge a buyers premium. Some people do I don't. I reckon each to thier own. Best of luck.

Mike

[Oscar B]

I do not agree with the greed of bloated shipping charges. You are the one wanting to sell and that is part of business.

[Warren]

Bruce, you failed to mention the auctions that charge you a fee just to get in the door to look at whats for sale. Around here I haven't been to an auction in probably 5 years that didn't charge an entrance fee. And I've never been to a craft show, gun show or business expo that didn't. Some of the weekend flea markets and monthly trade days charge some kind of fee to get in the gate. I will not be shocked when they begin to charge you to browse the mall. People are in business to make money and they will do whatever is necessary to effect the least amount of change to their bottom line as possible. In a free enterprise system (which is the American way) they have every right to do so. I as a buyer have the right to buy from whom I choose and by the same token not buy from anyone I don't. Tim brought up that you wouldn't do business with a store who's prices didn't reflect the true price of their merchandise. I believe he is correct. Wolvenstein reinforced what I posted earlier about the total cost of buying something on E-bay. Both of them bring up the issue of service. I can't speak for anyone but myself, but I will pay more to a merchant that provides me good service over one that doesn't for the exact same item. Not similar or close but exact. That is the case where I live. We have a TLF store and another locally owned leather shop that is a Tandy dealer. The locally owned shop provides me with excellent service, advice, help, opinions etc. They are a little higher priced. I don't mind because of the service. The same thing goes on E-bay. If I buy something from a seller and I get good service (well packaged item with timely delivery and good communications) I'm more than likely going to try to buy from that seller again if possible. Yes, earlier I said I was looking for a bargain on E-bay. A bargain can be defined by more than just a cheap price. Wal-mart has by far the cheapest prices on just about everything they sell. I will not buy from Wal-mart if I can buy it somewhere else because from my experience they don't care about me as a customer and they prove that by the level of service they provide. When someone proves to me they appreciate my business I will do business with them again. If I have to pay a little more for that then so be it.

Warren

[unicornwoman]

We have a TLF store and another locally owned leather shop that is a Tandy dealer. The locally owned shop provides me with excellent service, advice, help, opinions etc. They are a little higher priced. I don't mind because of the service. ..

Warren

Oh, definitely. I went to a real camera store when I bought my 35 mm camera. They treated me well, gave great advice, and offered classes. When I got my digital, I went back to them knowing that I was paying more, but again I was treated well and got the advice I needed to make the decision. They were worth every penny.

[K-Man]

Why charge so much for shipping? If you're shipping through the USPS, you can basically get a lot of the material needed for a minimal cost.

$0 = boxes (all sizes)

$0 = boxes delivered to your doorstep

$2-$4 = packaging tape (usually will tape up approx 40 boxes, so .10/box)

$4.60 = shipping cost 1lb box priority mail

$0 = confirmation delivery of package (if utilizing online USPS shipping)

$.05 = piece of paper/printer ink to print off shipping label (utilizing online USPS for shipping labels)

$0 = schedule pickup of package by USPS, picked up off your doorstep (or other designated spot)

$4.75 = total for a 1lb box

If you're charging people to cover the cost of the IRS mileage deduction, isn't that double-dipping? In other words, your customer is paying you for the deduction that you also get from the IRS. Something's not right with that picture.

Now, I don't know how much material it takes to get to that 1lb mark, but it shouldn't be hard to figure out with a scale. Material, such as the lace, is a non-breakable item, so there really should not be any special packaging required, i.e., styrofoam peanuts, etc. I haven't purchased such packaging materials for years - I save what I get from other businesses shipping items to me, and use that when necessary for items I'm shipping out.

Labor costs to perform the packaging should be incorporated into the price of the item if you're a sole proprietor type of business.

Edited February 11, 2008 by K-Man

[tonyc1]

Why charge so much for shipping? If you're shipping through the USPS, you can basically get a lot of the material needed for a minimal cost.

$0 = boxes (all sizes)

$0 = boxes delivered to your doorstep

$2-$4 = packaging tape (usually will tape up approx 40 boxes, so .10/box)

$4.60 = shipping cost 1lb box priority mail

$0 = confirmation delivery of package (if utilizing online USPS shipping)

$.05 = piece of paper/printer ink to print off shipping label (utilizing online USPS for shipping labels)

$0 = schedule pickup of package by USPS, picked up off your doorstep (or other designated spot)

$4.75 = total for a 1lb box

If you're charging people to cover the cost of the IRS mileage deduction, isn't that double-dipping? In other words, your customer is paying you for the deduction that you also get from the IRS. Something's not right with that picture.

Now, I don't know how much material it takes to get to that 1lb mark, but it shouldn't be hard to figure out with a scale. Material, such as the lace, is a non-breakable item, so there really should not be any special packaging required, i.e., styrofoam peanuts, etc. I haven't purchased such packaging materials for years - I save what I get from other businesses shipping items to me, and use that when necessary for items I'm shipping out.

Labor costs to perform the packaging should be incorporated into the price of the item if you're a sole proprietor type of business.

You are spot on! I agree 100% with what you have just said!

[Peter Ellis]

Hi Bill,

I do everything on auto, I put in what I will pay max and let the eBay computers bid for me;

Art

Or why Ebay is really nothing like a live auction. Wait until that last minute, throw in your bid to "steal" the item at a good price, get outbid by the computer, bump your bid, get outbid by the computer, bump, outbid, etc.

And there you are at the last minute typing like crazy trying to beat a bit that was set the day the auction opened by someone who is anywhere but at their computer while you are bidding.

The things that I find bother me most about Ebay are that there doesn't seem to be any real mechanism for handling people making totally false claims for the things they are selling, and the idea that people are free to leave retaliatory feedback. You buy something, it turns out to have been severely misrepresented, you feedback to that effect and the flamewar begins ... just a lousy system

[unicornwoman]

If you're charging people to cover the cost of the IRS mileage deduction, isn't that double-dipping? In other words, your customer is paying you for the deduction that you also get from the IRS. Something's not right with that picture.

ABSOLUTELY NOT! IRS lets you deduct the cost of goods, but you still charge for that. IRS lets you deduct postage costs, yet you charge for that. Same thing.

[bcurrier]

I pretty much agree with you, Peter. I'd add bidding collusion to that - mostly by sellers to bump up bid prices.

Bill

[bcurrier]

ABSOLUTELY NOT! IRS lets you deduct the cost of goods, but you still charge for that. IRS lets you deduct postage costs, yet you charge for that. Same thing.

Agreed. That's the difference between sales tax and income tax. It's fundamentally profit that's being assessed when it comes to a company's income tax, so cost of goods, labor, misc. business expenses, etc. are taken out of the equation. Conceptually, it doesn't matter how the business recoups expenses, i.e., whether embedded in the sale price, as with labor and other cost of goods expenses, or paid directly by the purchaser as with shipping and handling.

Bill

[unicornwoman]

Labor costs to perform the packaging should be incorporated into the price of the item if you're a sole proprietor type of business.

I feel that pricing system ends up charging the customer too much for the items that I mostly sell and the figures I posted above PROVE it on only 5 yards. It would be absolutely ridiculous on more than 5 yards. (No, customers needing more than 5 yards might not want spools as what they are wanting might be, say 2 yards in each of 4 colors and each of 3 widths. They'd much prefer to buy what they need from me than buy 24 different spools....)

Also, take into account that if a package is best shipped Priority Mail that (unless Rush shipping was requested by the customer at the time of the order), I pay for that upgrade entirely myself.

Also, take into account that part of my flat shipping fee was chosen to determine what type of customers I want. I'm not interested in doing business for $1 or $2. I have a major competitor that has a minimum order requirement (and she charges a shipping/handling fee on it). I wanted to position myself as different from her, so that there would be times people selected me just because I didn't have a minimum order requirement. If you want to order $1 worth of merchandise, fine, but as it still costs me a set amount to process an order, the order has to have a set shipping/handling fee.

I use 1 set fee on most items because 1) it was too much of a hassle remembering the other quotes, especially when the customer at the last minute would change the order, yet pay with the original shipping quote and 2)I want larger orders, so I cover the extra costs on those from the extra cash flow of a larger order.

Conceptually, it doesn't matter how the business recoups expenses, i.e., whether embedded in the sale price, as with labor and other cost of goods expenses, or paid directly by the purchaser as with shipping and handling.

Bill

[bcurrier]

Melody, yours is a perfect example of a well-thought out strategy.

The only thing I'd add regarding pre-set fees is that they can affect your tax position. Net positive adds to your taxable income, net negative could be treated as an expense or perhaps as an operating loss - have to check with a tax person on that one. No problem either way, as long as you allow for it in your year-end cash position.

Bill

[Regis]

One very good thing about ebay is that it is not mandatory. It is also not some kind of government handout. I don't need to buy there and I don't need to sell there. If "I" choose to use it as buy/sell resource then it is because it has (with all its flaws) some benefit for "me". Otherwise, I simply don't participate. I don't own or manage it nor do I think they need to change to meet my needs. If it is not properly serving "people" then it will deminish and fail or correct itself.

my 2c too

[K-Man]

To each their own on how they plan and run their business - each style may add to or take away from one's bottom line. I know this from my own personal experience.

Best of luck to you.

[ferret]

Found this article about ebay, you might find it amusing http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/02/11/ebay_laptop_auction/

[tonyc1]

Hilarious!

[unicornwoman]

Found this article about ebay, you might find it amusing http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/02/11/ebay_laptop_auction/

I have some fellow hobbyists that have been burned with fraud stuff, so I'm not laughing. It is too close to possible.