WyomingSlick

Thank you very much Alan! Still looking for the other one. Anybody?

Hi, I have the M and U for you. All I ask is that you pay postage. Other misc. letters that are anyone's who need them to fill a hole. Same terms. 3/4" Western - C, E, H, L, N, R, Q, W 3/4" Fancy Western - H 1" Western - M

Whoppee Hooray! I got the 983! Thank you, Bob! Still looking for the 984 fine line shader. Also tools in first post.

I will pay up to $25 each for Craftool numbers 983 and 984 in near mint condition. Also am interested in numbers : 107 , 538, 544, S-2, S-4, and S-5. Please post good pictures of any of these you have for sale.

ing Yes, that is a pretty fuzzy backside. I'll bet ya the next time you buy a belt blank, you will check the back. I, myself would run it through my splitter and shave the "fuzzy" off, but I would guess you don't have a splitter. Have you tried using a skiving tool or skife to shave the fuzz off. A freshly broken piece of glass with the non-working edges covered with tape would also work. A scraper used by woodworkers for fine finishing may also work well. Some belt makers also coat the backside of a belt with Gum Tragacanth after they have edged and burnished the belt ege. They then burnish this with a scrap of canvas to produce a slicker belt.

Great start with some very valuable insight. I would like to add something if I may. What Paul said about dashed lines that are used in many figure carving pattern applies to Craftaids also. Many people starting out in leatherwork do use Craftaids and the dashed lines are found there, particlarly on the figure carving Craftaids. When you use the Craftaid to apply the pattern to the cased leather, DO NOT press down hard when you run your modeling tool, or whatever you use, over the dashed lines. Do it lightly enough that there is just a light imprint to guide you in your stamping. As Paul stressed; if these lines are burnished into the leather, it will be very difficult to make them disappear into the tooling of the completed work. I have even used an X-Acto knive to shave down the raised ridges on some of my often used Craftaids. I wrapped a small piece of tape around the tip of the blade so as to raise the blade slightly above the plastic and then carefully planed the dashed line ridges down to where they just barely would make an impression in the leather.

I am just getting into messing around with stainless steel on my metal lathe. About stainless steel; It is an alloy containing iron like all steels. And like them, it will rust - unless you "pickle" it; which consists of placing it in a weak nitric acid bath which eats away the surface iron so there are no iron particles left on the surface to oxidize. Both of these were made from solid SS rods. I have picked up some SS bolts and mean to try them out for tool stock sometime also.

Damn, we missed the boat. 5 days ago, most all of their stamping tools were listed at $3.33 and the 2-d stamps at 1.99. I just checked and the price is back up to $7.99. Must have been a sale ( Christmas ??) that just ended. I hadn't looked at their site in a long time prior to a few days ago, as I am primarily interested in the older vintage Craftools (Made before 1962). I would suggest eBay first if you are looking for tools. Look for the auctions that list the tool # as being without a prefix letter. Example - you want a #200 nearly every time over a #B200. They started the letter prefix system around 1963. Around 1967-1968 they added the words "Made in the USA". I suppose this was to separate themselves from the MIDAS and KELLY tools that were being made overseas.

I like and use the poly cutting board the the leather supply companies sell. It is lightweight and easy to grab and set quickly on your work area. It is multi-purpose since it is used as a cutting board also. It is tough enough to stand up to many years of use, yet it will not harm your knives or punches. I bought one a dozen years ago and am still using that same one with no maintainance or special care.

I think we have established that many people are not happy with their experiances with recently made Craftools. I would like to hear how anybody is faring with the newer Craftools that are being made in Japan. Now that they are selling them for $3.33 each I am considering buying some of the newer patterns. I still object to Craftools being called "craptools" unless you want to add a qualifier that you are referring to the newer letter-prefix tools and not the older tools made before the mid sixties. As you can see in the atachment, my Craftool waffle stamps do some better in comparison than Bruce's. I urge anybody who are considering Craftools to make an effort to find some good buys on eBay. There are many good buys there as a lot of people took up leatherwork in the 50s and 60s and many of their tools are now appearing on eBay from estate sales and retirement sales.

I am getting a funny picture here. When you ask "Would this be as good as a granite slab for smaller work?" I am wondering if you are thinking about tooling on top of an anvil. Anvils are for setting hardware ( rivets, snaps, etc) on - while for tooling, most use granite, marble, fine finished concrete slabs, and I've even seen a fella that had a lead slab.

Is that the best you can do? For a rebuttal, you pick two tools that any leather carver would classify as "very critical" in that they are very important to the over all effect of the design? There is no doubt that today's custom tool makers are producing some of, if not the best stamps ever seen. And yes, I would say that if you do quite a bit of basketweaving work, or if you do quite a bit of Sheridan style carving, then you are justified in investing the $35 and $50 for those King tools. But where's the big differance in the bevelers, seeders, and bargrounders? My point is that to dismiss Craftools as "craptools" is very unfair, and downright snobbery. No, Craftools are not what they used to be. But before Tandy bought Craftool in the early 60's from Dick Gehan they made a pretty good tool. It is an old story in this world that after a corporate takeover, the quality of a product usually declines as corporate decisions are driven more by $$$$$ than pride in their product. I certainly think they let things slip in the last three decades. For example, in the early 50s, the average stamp cost about a buck and a half which was about the hourly wage paid the average working man. The average working man now makes 12-13 bucks an hour but does Tandy sell their tools for that? Well, no....now that they have outsourced their Craftool operation to Japan, they are selling them for $3.33. Now is that a bargain, or not, to the many 4-H kids and Scouts who enter the hobby each year. Who do you think buys the majority of the tools they sell every year? You sure don't turn around and buy a new #200 beveler every year. If they were able to charge 12-13 dollars for the average stamp, then yes, they could still be producing all of their tools to their previous standards. Especially now that they have moved to a cheaper labor market. In that regard, it is a move they should have made a long time ago. They lost most of their quality tool makers a long time ago in the US. It will be interesting to see if they will be able to get the ball rolling in the other direction and start producing better stamps.

A simple test to determine the value of a ball bearing yoke. 1. Hold any swivel knife in your hand as you hold it while carving. 2. Swivel the barrel and note the force required to turn it. 3. Now repeat 1 and 2 while applying pressure on yoke with your finger like you do while carving and again note the amount of effort to turn it. 4. Again repeat step 3 while the blade is in cased leather making a cut. In engineering or scientific terms the equation would be: F1 = Amount of force to rotate barrel while pressure is on yoke F2 = Amount of force to turn blade in leather F3 = Amount of force to carve design in leather So you would have: F1 + F2 = F3 Now I have used quite a few differant swivel knives in my time and no, cross my fingers, I don't suffer from arthritis yet in my fifties. But with every one of the knives in the attached picture, I find that the effort to turn the blade in the leather accounts for at minimum: 90% of the effort, and in many uses; perhaps as much as 99%. The blade used and it's sharpness are of way, way more concern than the free spinning of the yoke. I would add that the structure of the blade will make more differance than the yoke spin, ie...a hollow ground blade or a figure carving are noticably easier to carve with than the straight flat blade. Add in the quality of the carving leather and the proper casing technique and that yoke "drag" becomes a null question in comparison to the other factors affecting carving. Yes........... you had better love that knife..........after all......... you paid $100 for it. I myself will suggest that the aspiring leather carver spend his money on several decent blades, a flat diamond honing plate, some stropping rouge, Al Stohlman's book on tools, and then practice to develop his carving skill after reading what the masters say about the subject in their books. So, who can tell which beveler did which beveling? Identify the seeders as to maker? Whose bargrounder is best?

LOL You sure do suffer from an extreme case of "Snap-On Fever"!! There is no doubt that a Barry King basketweave that sells for $50 or more bucks does a better job than a Craftool basketweave which sells for $3.33 as of right now. So there you have a case of one tool costing 15 times as much as another. Yes, that cost is justifiable if you are a pro producing top of the line saddles, etc. Is it justified if you are the average guy who makes a few belts, wallets, purses, etc. in a year? No! You mentioned Harbor freight tools. I googled NASCAR and I see that CRAFTSMAN are their pick. Yup, a good tool....but a Craftsman wrench doesn't cost 15 times as much as a same sized Harbor Freight wrench. I have a big toolbox full of Craftsman tools and they are good tools. I also have some beautiful Bonney and Snap-On tools that make the Craftsmans look a bit clunky. And then I have some Harbor freight tools that do just fine for tightening a bolt. But getting back to leather stamping tools. I will not say that Barry King's basket weave tools are not worth 50 bucks. I am well aware of the investment, both in tooling equipment and time, that is required to produce a stamping tool like one of Barry's basketweaves or geometrics. BUT....but the fact remains that for the average guy; he can get a whole handful of tools and many patterns that are not produced by the custom toolmakers for the same money that he spends on a few "Handmade custom tools". And does a $25 beveler from Barry work that much better than a Craftool or a Craft Japan tool? Perhaps.......... that investment is justified for the common tools like a beveler, but what about if you are talking about a seeder. In pic one, I did some beveling, both smooth and checkered, with some Barry King, Ray Hackbarth, McMillen, Craftool, Craft Japan, and one of my modified Craftools that I ground a steeper angle on and checkered. Big differance? No! And to the customer? Even a bigger no! And which seeder, again from differant makers, are you going to pick as the best? And in the next pic - which bargrounder is the best of the 5 differant makers? The big differance to the customer is going to be the overall effect of your tooling which is created 95% by your facility with your tools and your artistic ability. I have looked at a lot of leatherwork over the years and it is the overall appearance that strikes the eye first and not the individual tool impressions. Perhaps it is a good selling point to point to a rack of $25 to $100 tools each to justify the price for your work, but I am sure that what is going to sell it is the quality of the actual work. And that comes from critical evaluation of your work. learning from your mistakes, and striving to do better. And I will say that for most people's work I see, the biggest fault is their swivel knife work. LOL There is a lot of silly talk that goes on there also. A lot of foolish talk about "yokes that spin for 20+ seconds"!! It takes very little force to turn a yoke on a swivel knife - way less than the resistance in the leather to the turning of the blade. Tons of great swivel knife work has been produced by standard non ball bearing swivel knifes. One of those, matched with the proper leather preparation (casing), sharp and stropped blade, proper technique, and practice...with a heavy emphasis on PRACTICE, will do immeasurably more for your work than some damn ball bearing! In summation, I will not argue that custom made tools today are not worth the money, and if a fellow has the money, he should invest in some of them. But to dismiss Craftools as "craptools" is totally uncalled for. No, they are not the quality they once were in the early days of the 40s - early 60s but for $3.33 each they will fill many needs for a leatherworker. And many of them, including early day vintage Craftools (No letter prefix) may be picked up on eBay for great prices. "The use of your tools means way more than the tools you use!"

I am in agreement with one of the posters above that you shoud wait untill you can do a "hands on" comparison between differant models. If the yoke on yours is dragging, then simply pop it off......it is only held on by a snapring if it's a standard Craftool model. Polish up the stem with some crocus cloth, rinse with WD-40, wipe, and apply just a very small dab of Vaseline or graphite grease to it, and reassemble. Take some time and practice with your knife so that you are very sure what you are looking for when you decide to "step up" to a higher priced model. A lot of very good work has been done with no better knife than what you have, but it was done with a sharp, stopped blade in properly prepared (cased) leather by craftsmen who had put in the practice time to become proficient at it. It won't make a big differance to invest a lot of money in a knife if you don't invest some money in some scrap leather and practice, practice, practice.

And? Did you want to sell it? What kind of shape is it in? Do you have a pic? Can you do PayPal? Money Order? Personal Check? Specifics?

Here is a page scan from a 2002 Tandy catalog when they carried some Barry King tools. And here is a link to Montana Leather Company which shows the current lineup. http://www.montanaleather.com/catalog/catalog/Barry_King-24-1.html

Gee whiz........they worked pretty damn good for Al Stohlman's intended purposes for a lot of years. Or are you referring only to the recently made Craftools when you say "craptools"?

I am wondering if the line of tools you are referring to here are HC's Pro Crafters. I too, bought around a dozen of them during one of their promotional sales. Upon examining them when they arrived I noted the casting lines that bisect the tools and from my knowledge of metalurgy, I concluded that they were most likely made by pressure casting of powdered steel. That should not be a problem if they were made right to start with, and so far I have had no problem with them. Now I am curious; were you able to get them replaced or your money refunded by the outfit you bought them from? I haven't had any bad experiance with the ones I bought, but then I have only used a couple of them very much at all. LOL Maybe I should sell them on eBay and see if I can't get $78 for tools that only costs $12 on sale! I saw the posts that discussed that event.

I have read a lot on the internet, both here and on other sites, concerning tool quality. I have come across numerous referances to stamping tools bending and breaking. I have a very hard time understanding most of these stories. What the hell are these folks doing? When I was first learning leatherwork in 4-H, my instructor (4-H project leader) prepared a learning demonstration for us. We each had 3 scraps of leather, a mallet, swivel knife, and a med-large pearshader. One piece of leather was dry, one was very wet, and one was cased properly. First he had us attempt carving on each piece of leather until we were clear on the differance between carving properly prepared leather and NOT! After this was clear to us we then moved on to stamping the three pieces of leather. He then demonstrated what the effect was that we were looking for on a properly cased piece of leather, pointing out to us the way the leather retained the tool impressions, and how much darker they were then the leather surface. We then tried stamping on each of our three pieces. I remember that one of the bigger guys was able to punch clear through the wet piece of saddle skirting that he had. Fortunately, this was done on a poundo board, so no harm done to the stamping tool. In the class sessions to follow, many times our leader would reinforce this lesson by observing that the piece we were working on was too wet or too dry. I was extremely fortunate to have a very experianced teacher - most of the kids in our county were learning from much less knowledgable leaders. When fair time came around, it was rare for one of Mr. Hahn's student to win anything less than a blue ribbon, and we took home many championship purple ribbons. Now to come to the point. How in hell are you folks destroying all these tools? Are you trying to tool dry rawhide or something like that? Is it that you don't understand the importance of preparing tooling leather by casing it to it's optimum working state, and then keeping it near there while you are working? Or is it that you are trying to achieve a higher burnish by working the leather on the dry side? I have never bent a Craftool in forty some years of leather poundin' although I have come across some in my eBay buys that were bent. I have also come across some that were mushroomed like an old cold chisel too. In either case, I figure the fault lies with the tool user, NOT the tool! In summation, 99.99% of my tooling is done tap..tap..tap, not wham, wham, wham!

Hi, I have 25 auctions on eBay of older Craftools. Go to http://shop.ebay.com/wy-slick/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=&_trksid=p4340 to see them. Some good old heavier duty saddle stamps among them.

Looks to me like a traditional seed pod where it it cut with a knife, beveled around the outside, seeded around the curve, and then the inside is cross-hatched with the swivel knife.

I am assuming you are talking about a metal zipper here. Yes, it is possible to repair them if the cloth that the teeth are clamped on is entirely whole. But it is a real pain in the neck to do so. I would say that generally it would be much easier to replace the zipper entirely. If, as you say, that is not worthwhile; then it isn't worth trying to replace the teeth either. I have done a successful job with a couple of large zippers on gun cases but have never tried it with a smaller zipper. 1. Find a matching zipper to get "donor" teeth from. 2. Cut out a section from it with at least twice as many teeth as you will need. 3. Burn off the cloth. I used my torch in the shop to do this. 4. Spread the jaws of each tooth where it clamped on the cloth. I used a single point lacing chisel for this. Do not spread the jaws too much and crack the metal. This is why you started with extras. Just spread it enough to slip on the cloth base. 5. Now it is time to assemble the zipper - What you need to do is start a bit back from the damaged area and zip the teeth together manually without using the zipper pull. To do this you need to simulate the action of the pull and flex the sides and slide them into each other so that they interlock. When you get to the damaged section, add in your donor teeth with the clamping parts fitting onto the cloth base. After you are past that section, continue on a ways with interlocking the teeth. 6. Now you should be looking at a closed zipper section. Using the point of a modeling tool, or some other suitable tool, make sure that each donor tooth is lined up square on the cloth base and the whole assembly looks uniform. 7. Now, place the zipper of a hard surface and using a small pin punch, tap each tooth closed so that it grips the cloth base securely. Make sure that each tooth is in the correct position before doing this step. 8. If you are satisfied that the teeth are secure, then go ahead and carefully separate the zipper sides. Rub a bit of parafin wax on the teeth for lubrication and try closing the zipper in the normal fashion with the pull slide. Like I said before, I have done this with large zippers. I really can't imagine a situation where it would be feasible on a smaller project.

I am willing to pay $15 for each of these craftaids. These are both patterns from A.S. Top Twenty book. One is the leaping stallion on floral and the other is the deer family on floral.

I got to thinking that perhaps someone might be able to use the numerical sequanced index I mentioned above. So here it is. It is not as "pretty" as my grouped index as it is simply a rough guide that is useful in identifying a Craftool by it's number quickly. Being and earlier version, this will not have all of the tools that are in the grouped index. And again I ask: if anyone has a Craftool stamp that I have missed, please let me know. Someday when I have the time I hope to make a better index by taking all on my tools and stamping them into leather and scanning the result.