Gregory B. Moody

Alex is correct on several levels...Bruce, feel free to use my name when you are talking about something I have said... and I have always suggested that people try out suggestions themselves... even good suggestions should be tried out on a practice piece before applying it to some project which has a bunch of money and labor already invested in it... Bruce, you have changed what I said and you have assumed things due to your opposition to my statement which are not true. I am not talking about pictures hanging on a wall when I say I have 45 year old examples of projects which look new. I am talking about things like wooden chairs which were covered with carved leather....and a Bible cover... which has gotten lots of handling over the years because it is the most severe example of embossing from the backside which I have ever seen... it was made by my father in 1961 and given to me... so the example is something which has been in the hands of lots of people and has a fold ... two criteria which I expect a good finish to be able to withstand with minimum impact. The newer people are to leathercrafting the more important warnings are... it does not take many messed up projects to take the wind out of a new crafter... If someone is warned then it is their job to proceed with caution... or not.... but to fail to warn when there is a known risk is not fair to others. I will post a longer answer to both your posts about this later... but here is something for people to think about....and which influences my choice of actions in situations with variable physics at stake... Hides are skin. When the skin of a cow is on the animal small amounts of oil are constantly being provided from underneath... the skin is not drenched with a very heavy oil once a year... like an application of Neatsfoot Oil would be... it gets oil which is expelled at the same rate it is bing added all year long. I believe that an application of a lighter oil ... like Lexol, Carnauba cream, lanolin ( in the form of neutral shoe polish) on a REGULAR basis most closely resembles what nature was providing to that skin while it was on the animal... and has the added advantage of minimizing the risk of the leather in its new configuration and use (belt,saddle,etc) imparting unwanted oil to other items like clothes in the local vicinity. Concerning white leather... I hate that look also.... which is another reason I like to use the Carnauba cream/Fiebings medium brown antique/neutral shoe polish on my carved objects.... it gives it a warm brown look... is not a finish which is prone to rubbing off and the neutral shoe polish is also the long term preventative action which is repeated to keep lanolin available for the fibers... later, Greg

Actually I was wanting the moving Gif as avatar on the Old Diesel Forum ....

No problem , I will send HQ closeups of what I do.... Thanks, Greg

NOW WE ARE COOKING WITH GAS !!! Will try to make pictures of the flower and send to you... Thanks, Greg

I can't take much credit for the claim that Neatsfoot oil will move around... in a Stohlman book he uses the term " migrate"... which to me means ' go further than you wished it to go'.. like you put it on the outside of a boot...and months later you find that you get it on your socks when you wear those boots....( had this happen to me )... About 1960 .... after my father telling me it did not dry very fast... I took a feather and dipped it into some Neatsfoot oil....and stood it upright on a shelf in the leather shop... 6 months later it was still wet to the touch... For horse gear used outdoors it is great stuff ( but still would not put it where a rider would contact it with clothes...) Greg

No, when I read your post was the first time I knew there was a category like that... LOL Any suggestions as to which is the best buy ? Greg

My father did a nifty flower using only a camo tool... maybe 12 or 16 strokes... image resolution can be adjusted after the fact if it is too big a file... but what are the steps ... I assume jpeg is ok for the original ?

It looks like a series of pictures just like a movie... why could we not put a stationary camera above a flower in the process of being made... then accumulate them to a GIF file ? I see other things like that on forums ... people make their own GIF signatures...

LOL, I did not express my question well... What equipment would I have to have here at my house in order to provide a demonstration ? I don't think anyone will be able to see what I am going with no digital imagining device attached to my computer/ISP... or are you saying that if I place the wet leather on my keyboard when I am stamping that you ... many states away, can ' interpret' those inputs for others to see what I am doing ? And, How long will this plastic keyboard last with me using a mallet on it ? LOL... if yes, we can make a lot of money because you are clearly in the realm of supernatural computer Tech... LOL, Greg I have a digital camer... but not a digital video recorder ....can that be used as input device ? please delete this after you see it... LOL

I would like to know what the technical requirements are to do something like that. Would being on a dial up preclude providing that ? I spent two weeks at a Horseshoeing/Blacksmithing course in 1987 in Mineral Wells where Bill Epps from that iForge site was assisting the aging owner of the school... and showed us those cool decorative items like the longhorn on the end of a horseshoe... Greg

His name should be on it to keep it from getting stolen. Sad but true... I have several aunts in nursing homes.... and things without names don't last long... some is staff, some crazy other residents... at least if the name is on it someone else may realize whatever it is did not belong to them and return it...

I never use Neatsfoot oil myself. My father only used it on saddles where the darkening effect was not a concern...( preservation at the Camp Mabry Military Museum as Austin Texas where his Horse Cavalry unit ...the 112th Cavalry has their relics ). The warning about it ' moving around' was from an Al Stohlman book. Once someone gets too much of it in something it would take extrodinary means to reduce its content. Most people do not apply Neatlac with sheepskin.. they spray it from the can....and in that case if they put enough on to give them a ' shine' then in places like purse lids that bend there is considerable chance for the tiny cracking called crazing ( often several months later ) ... which just gives it a foggy look in that bend area... my father did it do my sister's purse when she was about 12... it is also possible to apply Neatlac at too cold a temperature or too high a humidity and it remain looking like it had fog in it. Added to the health risks if not sprayed outdoors and you staying upwind ... and the cheap glossy look if applied like so many do.. I just avoid it. Neutral Shoe Polish does not have those drawbacks. Some of these things... once you are warned about them... it is a matter of " Do I want to take the chance on my project ? " But since I have good looking projects 50 years old which still look nice.. using only semi regular application of Neutral Shoe Polish... some of the with NO signs of darkening over that period... the question is " What advantage do you think you are getting from that Neatsfoot Oil ? I can see it being used on working equipment in contact with horses... which will also require regular use of saddle soap and thus the replacement of the oils compromised by that process... But aside from that I suggest that Neatsfoot oil is way overkill for regular projects...and certainly has that darkening effect over the long haul... which takes away the contrast any carving and stamping might have had to start with... thus decreasing the visual effect of all that labor and effort...

I will tell you why it goes against most instructions on sewing leather .... because the people writing the books often were working for a company which either made a stitching gouge ... or sold them... You can not ignore the commercial pressure which existed in the old books.... I am sure that is the only reason a barseeder backgrounder was ever used in a Stohlman book... If you use an Overstitch Wheel ( and you should ) then it will accomplish exactly what Bob used his modeler for...and more... a properly made Overstitch Wheel first shows you where to put your holes....then after you have sewn makes it look like it was machine sewn... and presses it down also....even more so if you sew with your leather wet. In fact... if you glue your leather together ( which you should anytime you sew or lace ) then you really don't have to sew it in all instances... because the Overstitch Wheel will make it look like it is sewn..... try it if you don't belive me... but you need one with good wide scallops like in the old days.. Greg

As long as the previous coat is dry you can do the next one... lets say 15 minutes on spirit dye... with Neutral Shoe polish you put one coat on.... gently brush it with a clean shoe brush in all directions until it shines ....then apply the next coat and do the same thing... Greg

I would not suggest Neatsfoot oil on anything which will be in contact with skin or clothes.. PERIOD... way too greasy and will keep moving around in the leather ... If I am forced to make something black I use two coats of Dark Blue spirit dye, two coats of Black spirit dye , let dry and rub well with cotton cloth and then put several coats of NEUTRAL SHOE POLISH on it... but basically you are attacking something which can not be gauranteed. It is always best to try to talk people out of things being black OR make them out of Finished leather which is already black.... Greg

please delete this post

Wow, I was thinking a little ' daintier' than that.... like some nice soft Chap leather with good foam inside. Great foam in reasonably small packages can be had at most Automotive Upholstery supply shops... I just got a stack for redoing an old car seat. Greg

It seems like we should have some Avatars or pictures which are leather oriented. How would one make a " moving " GIF loop ( are all gifs loops by definition ?) which would show a carved flower being produced ? Thanks,Greg

"Remove as little leather as is necessary to get the job done. " V.D. Exactly... I have never understood why people would use a gouge in a place where there the stitching was not going to be subject to heavy abrasion... you are simply weakening what you have to stitch together. In addition to that.. a gouged stitch line is where the project will accumlate dirt which is almost impossible to remove. "The grain side is where all the strength of the leather is." V.D. True....but that conflicts with this sentence.... "Doubled and stitched (abbreviated D&S) is never stronger than a single layer of quality leather." -V.D. The trick is that " quality leather" , which I assume means no internal weak spots , is pretty hard to gaurantee.... So if we are talking something important like a laptop computer.... I see nothing wrong with using the top grain of two thinner pieces of leather glued back to back... which also has the advantage of giving nice surface to both sides... and allows the strap to be given it's curve by offsetting the pieces when glueing them up. If I am making a strap for something like a laptop I include Stainless Steel aircraft control type cable... available at Tractor Supply Company and places like Grainger's. Even tiny cable is very strong and several total wraps back and forth can be made without undue weight being present. If you are sewing with a welt it can even be hidden in the welt.. which is typically made of hollow plastic tube .... If you properly design the placement of the Stainless Steel cable then the leather becomes a way to make the cable comfortable for wearing...and many of the rules for leather only straps can be violated with impunity... without increasing the possibility of the strap breaking. This could allow the use of stitching in any direction for decorative purposes. Greg

Not a bad idea at all....and done on a regular basis for exactly the purpose you have proposed... utilizing thinner leathers already in stock for projects needing thicker leather. I would suggest that in putting it together you try to glue it in a curved fashion like it will be used as a belt... this will keep crinkles from possible forming on the inside next to the person which might exist if glued flat then used in a curve as a belt... You just start glueing on one end and introduce and keep the curve as you progress. This is the same concept used in curved plywood furniture glued in place... and curved handrails ( just this week on " This Old House" ... This same concept is used when placing ' insides' in billfolds... otherwise you would not be able to fold them... Greg

Two coats of Fiebings Carnauba Cream ( lightly brushed immediately so none stays in impressions ) Let dry between each coat and before the next step. This is what keeps the Antique from going directly into the leather ... and allows the cuts and impressions to be darker than the surface... which is the essence of ' antique look' which accents your labor and artistic input.... One coat Fiebings Medium Brown Antique Finish ( applied with small piece of trimmed sherling ) wiped off with pieces of cotton sheet one direction only each... discard wipe and keep wiping all directions one way until no streaks are left showing. Let dry. One coat of Neutral Shoe polish... then repeat the shoe polish for the life of the project... once every 6 months to a year. Warm brown color ( so it looks like leather )... Not a cheap glossy finish.. so it looks and feels expensive... won't crack on areas of the project which bend.... very good at not darkening over time ( I have samples 45 years old which look new )....the only finish I use ... and which was used on many of the Tandy Leather Catalog samples my father made while a Tandy manager...and on many of the Leather Factory Catalog samples .... Greg

That is a pretty wide category.... I would never use olive oil or anything like that because it can turn rancid... For preserving veg tanned projects several things have been proven over the years.. and some are WAY better at not turning your project into a very dark item... no matter how light it started out... I would only use straight Neatsfoot oil on saddles in places where clothes were never going to come into contact with it.... Al Stohlman warns in one of his books about Neatsfoot oil ' migrating' .. moving around... meaning it will get on your clothes... and it will turn your item very dark over time... The best ones I know of are Lexol ( for upholstery ) , Carnauba Cream, and Nuetral Shoe Polish ( for carved items ) . Little or no darkening effect even over decades... the only downside is that you should apply them on a regular basis. How often depends on your climate and their use.... Greg

The Antique which I use...made by Fiebings... "contains petroleum distillates " ( from the label ).. Many products are called antique..... which basically means that you leave it IN the impressions as age,dirt and oxygen would make it look old and which accents your impressions.... Best to check the label every time you start to put anything on your leatherwork.... Greg

I have checked out a good book called " Who Wrote the Dead Sea Scrolls?" by Norman Golb...pub 1995... I am interested in archeology and this same subject was addressed by one PBS NOVA show... which is much more modern than this book... Some of the conclusions stated as facts in that link of 25 things are much more in dispute than their syntax would leave you to believe. Even more interesting in this book , since the author is one of those involved in the controversy about releasing the images of the scrolls so that many schollars could weigh in with their theories, is the amount of politics involved... much like the sad politics involved in many medical and scientific discoveries to this day... It seems like in archeology the people who actually dig up the site assume that they are the best ones to say what the artifacts mean... when they may not have the expertise to take on that role. I was thinking about writing a scroll myself... does anyone know the formula for the Oak Gall black ink often used ? Or are there better inks for writing on leather ? Greg

That is one of my favorite leathers.... in the mottled brown I use it for lining things like jewelry boxes... it is so thin that you can glue it down to the center of a cube and use your fingernail or bone folder to take it into the corner and then cut it with an exacty knife... no trying to line the stuff up dealing with small pieces and contact cement .... you know how that ' grabs' ... Also, and I was already planning on doing a show and tell with it , covering books with it is a breeze... If I can find the covered one I have here I will post a picture soon... Greg