malabar

That's supposed to be a copy of the 1873 Colt, so the Colt blueguns should do you fine (if anyone know differently, please sing out). Here's the problem: Uberti doesn't make a five-inch barrel. They make a 4/34 inch barrel and a five 1/2 inch barrel. The ones that come flush to the end of the ejector shroud are the 4 3/4 inch model. tk

Go to your local Lowes or Home Depot. Get a sheet of white heavy-duty flexible shower liner. Should be about $15 for a 4x8 sheet. It's about 1/16 inch thick. Easy to trace around. Flexible enough to store in a roll. You can cut it with a utility knife or bandsaw, or shapr it with a belt sander or drum sander n a drill press. Works really well. Lasts forever. And you can write on it with a permanent sharpie. tk

Bob's method is excellent. At least some of my edges look like his. But I don't use the Weaver machine (which costs a pretty penny). I turned a couple of grooved cylinders and mounted them on an old bench grinder. I think the lower-speed models would work the best. I've also turned some small cylinders that I've mounted for use in my old foredom shaft tool. That works GREAT. tk

I would have guessed double that. I've see people pay more than $1,000 for a rig that is nowhere near that quality, nor has that degree of ornamentation. You don't think you could get $1,200? I'm stunned. tk

Yeah, I got you. Even old and saggy pancakes often "grab" the gun. And I suspect there's a huge difference in the way a handmade pancake behaves and a mass-market pancake behaves. My flat-backed designs were inspired by some of the designs from Milt Sparks. A lot of folks simply like the "feel" of the draw from the heavily molded holsters. tk

Having some issues with posting comments to my own thread. If anyone sees an incomplete version of this post, my apology... "IMO, the flat back designs are worthless. They push everything out and away from the body. In addition, they put added stress on the stitching because all of the weight is supported by those stitch lines." That's an interesting perspective. It's certainly easier to build holsters where the gun is sandwiched equally between two pieces of leather. But the outer surface of the holster won't be any further from the body regardless of which design you use. What you get with a flat back is a holster that molds more easily to the contour of the body. That can mean a more comfortable holster, depending, of course, on a variety of other factors as well. And I'm not sure your comment about stitch lines is correct. It seems to me that in a standard pancake, the force of the gun entering the holster is directly transferred to prying the two layers apart, which would be harder on the stitching. It seems to me that in a flat-backed design, more of that force is absorbed directly by the leather. Either way, what you get with a flat-backed holster that is hard-molded is a fit where the gun kind of "clicks" in and out of place with a velvety feel. Now, I've never handled your holsters, so I can't make any observations about them. But what I have observed with the regular pancakes (and here I mean the store-bought holsters I've had access to for many years) is this: When you flex the side "wings" of the holster in toward the body, simulating the forces applied when you mount the holster, the outer plate gets stretched, pulling it in toward the surface of the gun, while the inner plate gets compressed, pushing it slightly away from the surface of the gun. This affects the feel of the gun when drawing and reholstering. It's why so many off-the-shelf holsters have a "soggy" feel when drawing and reholstering. I'm not suggesting that applies to the work of anyone on this forum, it's simply one of the issues I've tried to address in my own designs. Yeah, that's a lousy photo on the facebook page, which is why I didn't post it here. I should reshoot those photos. There's a big bulge in the side of my fleece sweatshirt, but it's not the pistol, as you could probably tell if you look at the photo I posted on this forum -- the bulge is at 3 p,m. and the pistol is back at 4:30, and quite tight to the body. By all means, feel free to post any photos that you think expand the conversation. "Separate straps have a greater potential of stretching and wearing out than a strap that is an extension from the body of the holster itself." I'm curious: Why would this be the case? By using separate straps you can make them out of heavier leather than the body of the holster itself. And many highly regarded makers would disagree with you. Of course, that doesn't mean you're wrong, but I'd like to understand how you arrived at this conclusion. tk

As you say, your mileage may vary. I target my holsters to civilians who are carrying concealed. Most non-LEOs see a real advantage in a holster that mounts and dismounts quickly and easily. It makes it a snap to run into the post office, or the kid's school. Pop off the holster, put it in the glovebox and go. "It also gives up much of the pancakes retention ability by not having a bind on the holster with the weapon in this would also be escaberated by the use of 5/6 for the outer panel." I'm not sure I understand this sentence. Are you saying that flat-backed holsters don't have positive retention? Some of the best makers in the business would disagree with you. You can turn my holsters upside down and they hold the gun. And I typically use 6/7 for the outer plate. I make my pancakes the same way -- flat back, molding on the front. And they are high-ride, too. Why? Easier to conceal for most people. The bottom of the gun is less prone to sticking out below the bottom of a shirt. Now, does that affect proper presentation? Absolutely. But like everything else associated with firearms, it's a compromise. I think the trick is to get it high enough to conceal more easily, without pushing it so high that it affects stability, or makes a proper presentation difficult. As others have pointed out, there have been quite a few designs chasing that combination of high ride, stability and proper presentation. Price point? I figure $75, like my sidestrap IWB. Takes me a little over an hour to make one, although that hour tends to be broken up into five to 10-minute increments over the course of several days. With about $15 in materials, that's $60 profit per holster. Actually, $48 profit, after the government takes its share <g> tk

I agree that I don't think it would work very well in the Appendix area, but it's intended to be worn around 3:30-4 o'clock, just behind the strong side hip, as in the photo below (this is an earlier prototype). It seems to work pretty well there. I've worn the prototype for several weeks without problem (and an earlier prototype before that), but the real question is, what will happen with six months of daily wear. What I read into Mike's comment about the paddle was that it would be a way of exerting counter force on the holster, and I think he's right. Think of the holster as a see-saw and the belt as the fulcrum. Gravity pulls down on the grip of the pistol, and the pistol's natural tendency is to pivot on the fulcrum. But because the holster extends below the fulcrum, and the straps hold it tight, it stays rigidly in place. Until the straps start to stretch. Mike's suggestion is that a "paddle" will help oppose the force of gravity and keep the holster tucked in tight. My wife is suggesting making special straps with a non-stretching layer of vinyl laminated inside. It's an interesting idea that I'll almost certainly try. I'm using the Cobra Class 4 as well and am very pleased with it, and I'm using heavier thread than many. But is it as good as hand stitching? Many years ago (OK, it's like 30), I hand-stitched some holsters for cap-and-ball revolvers and sewed them up by hand with waxed linen. Wish I had one, but I don't -- I sold them with the revolvers when I went to college and needed money. But I'd bet dollars to donuts they're as functional today as they were 30 years ago. Heck, I found a couple of rolls of the waxed linen thread and IT's stil as good as the day I bought it. The problem with the lock-stitch is that if you break a stitch, everything can come apart (which is what happened with my old Lawrence rig -- the individual stitches had no strength on their own). Now, I like the stuff I'm making today. It's practical, has a great "feel," and conceals well. It's not practical to hand-stitch it. But will it be good 40 years from now? I'm somewhat doubtful. These are designs that push the characteristics of the leather to the max. When the leather starts to degrade, the holster will become markedly less effective -- which is what Mike described with the semi-shoulder holsters. tk

A lot of this depends on your particular style of holster making. I make almost all of my holsters with a flat back and the molding on the front. To do that, the outer plate (piece of leather) has to be significantly wider than the inner plate. I do all of my holsters from templates. I start with paper, and when I'm satisfied with hos it works, I transfer it to a more rigid material. The template for the outer plate is typically 3/4" to 1.25" wider than for the inner plate. The correct value is roughly the thickness of the gun. And revolvers can be tricky, because you need more material around the cylinder than the barrel, so the shape can be slightly different as well. If you build a holster in this fashion, you have to add the stitch lines AFTER glue up. I have a template for all of the handguns I work with. I put the gun in the holster, correctly oriented, and then overlay and offset the template to get the location for the stitch line. It's kind of a fussy method, but it gives you a real good fit up. tk

I don't use gum trag, I use Aussie Leather Conditioner, which is a beeswax compound. After stitching, I case the holster, bake it, let it totally dry, and then usually dip it in vinegaroon. When it is complete;y dry again, a rub a little Aussie inside the holster. My holsters are usually far too tight at that point, and the Aussie lays the fibers down and allows a little give, just enough to make for a smooth draw. tk

Mike, I'm not really expressing an opinion here, because I don't really have answers, just questions..... I'm assuming the long-term longevity of a holster is affected by a variety of factors, including materials storage and the style of holster. For example, I have a Lawrence gunfighter rig for a single six that I think dates from the 1960s. I used it a lot in the late 70s when I got it, then didn't touch it for a couple of decades. When I took it out of the box a couple of yeas ago, the stitching on the belt had disintegrated, and the holster was going, too. I assume storage and lack of use are factors, but I'm doubtful it would have held up a whole lot better with daily use. Similarly, I have a Lawrence pistol belt from the late 70s (Actually, my oldest boy liberated it 10 years ago). It was a real beauty -- lacquered, three layers, suede lining, 1/4' thick. It was the stiffest belt I had ever seen when I bought it. Today it's as limp as a wet noodle, and the surface leather is eroding. it was $25 or $30 when I bought it and I think I got my money's worth. I have a S&W OWB holster for my model 28 also from the '70s that's still serviceable. It was not a particularly complex design, just line leather folded over with a welt and a retaining strap. But that might be why it's still serviceable -- changes in the leather are less important than if it had been heavily molded. I really like the holsters you make, they're very distinctive and I'd like to be able to handle one some day, to get a real fee for the fit of the gun, etc. My holsters are a different style, I like the feel of the gun "popping" in and out of the body, and most of mine are flat to the body for concealment and comfort. When I make a pancake, I laminate the back plate of the holster for precisely the reasons you mention -- it creates a stiff spine that allows the holster to ride higher, for a better presentation. But I'm starting to think that any design that pushes the limits of the leather also will have a shorter life span. I don't really know how long you can expect a heavily molded holster to last. 10 tears? 20 years? I doubt it will be 40 or 50. I've used a kydex holster for training and they have their pluses and minuses. Never seen one I like for concealment. I think leather is always going to be more comfortable. But it you're going to be in a marine environment, where your holster will be getting wet regularly, they have an advantage. And they clean up real easy. I used a quick-detachable avenger last month in a carbine class I took. I liked it better than the kydex holster I had used before for training. But it was a rainy day, and I was down in the mud with it, and the natural color of the horsehide looks pretty "aged." <g> But I think you're right that kydex can be used to enhance a good leather holster. Paddles are a good example. I've also made clips for IWBs whose functions would be hard to duplicate in leather. tk

Is that a 4" 620" or a 686? Tall order to conceal that.... Can you post a closeup of the holster itself? many thanks tk

Sorry, been out of pocket all evening. Yeah, I sandwich a a steel band under the reinforcement strap on my IWB's and on my new model. It's 5/8 steel strapping, about .020 thick. I get mine as scrap from local business, but it's available direct from outfits like uline http://www.uline.com/Product/Detail/S-823/Steel-Strapping/5-8-x-020-x-2468-Standard-Grade-Steel-Strapping It takes a little bit of playing to get the hang of bending it once the holster is assembled, but other than that, it's easy to work with. tk

Mike, thanks for the photo. That's an interesting concept. Those little straps do seem like a weak point. I wonder if space-age materials might have helped keep its rigidity? OTOH... I remember talking to a real serious IPSC shooter (one of those guys sponsored on a shooting team) a while back, and he was telling my he used kydex holsters for compttition. I asked him how it held up, and he said he wore at least one out every year. Most people will never wear one out, of course, but he practices with it every day. And maybe that's an object lesson. I tend to think of a good holster as being a "forever" kind of accessory, but maybe that's not really reasonable. Clearly, the more money you pay for it the longer you expect it to last. tk

There's no doubt in my mind that 'roon changes the leather, but it seems to work for me. I mold and bake mine first, then when they are completely dry, I dip them in the 'roon, then let them dry for a bit, then redip them. I let them dry for at least 24 hours before doing anything further. I then coat the inside with Aussie Conditioner, a kind of soft wax. They don't seem to soften at all, and the 'roon creates a finish that goes right through the leather and makes them pretty water resistant. FWIW, I like my holsters on the hard side, firmer than what you get, for example, from Milt Sparks. The 'roon does not seem to interfere with that. But folks seem to get really mixed results with it. How are you applying your 'roon? tk

Time will tell. But I think you're right: If fall-off is a problem that I can't fix, putting it between the belt would almost certainly fix it. tk

I dunno. But he had to know that the holster was going bad. The leather that curled into the trigger guard really looks worn. I think it's a bad design, but user error is a significant factor here. Along with the squishy Glock trigger..... tk

Thanks for the tip! You know the funny thing is, I've worked on a design that uses the same principle -- a steel-reinforced paddle that held the gun above the belt. But my first prototype was a miserable failure and I was so disheartened I haven't yet gone back to it. <g> So this one attached to the belt via those little straps that wrap around the paddle? tk

Mike, I'm not offended. I appreciate your candidness. And the insight that comes from having worked on holsters so long. I have to see if I can track down some pictures of the holster you're talking about. "Fall-Out" is a good term. I haven't used that term before, but I will from now on <g>. I agree that's the issue. If I can keep it pulled-in tight, it's a winner. I'm hoping that the wide "wings" will help stabilize the tendency to pull away from the body. And by passing the straps through the wings of the holster, it keeps them short and tight to the belt. And a real gun belt is essential, or it will torque the belt. Maybe specialized leather for the straps will help. I suspect a lot of it may depend on the specific gun. I carry a SIG P226, which is one of the more challenging guns for CCW leather for (although not quite as bad as the Beretta 92). I've worn one for a few weeks now and it seems to e doing OK, but I don't know how it will hold up month after month. tk

Yeah, I agree with you on both counts. This particular arrangement was a request from another instructor with whom I work. He's a very advanced shooter and I deferred to his judgement. I think the risk is minimal here because only a small amount of the muzzle is exposed -- but I typically would not expose even that amount. These are the reasons why I don't make a yaqui belt slide-type holster. I've had several folks ask for them, and I explain that they can be dangerous for a variety of reasons, but people think they are the cat's meow -- because they are cheap and flexible. Ever seen this? http://www.itstactical.com/warcom/firearms/safety-warning-worn-leather-holsters-can-cause-accidental-discharges/ The human factor here is undeniable. The shooter had to know his holster had retired. But people do stupid things and I'd hate to see one of my holsters involved in this kind of an accident. tk

That's funny! And right on the money. I started out with a Lee Loader and progressed to Dillon 650. When it came time to buy a stitcher, I went straight for the Cobra Class 4 <g> tk

You're right: going inside the belt can help pull snap-on holsters in tight to the body. I was after a design that gave me that kind of stability without needing to be inside the belt. The placement of inside-the-belt holsters is limited by the location of the belt loops. With this design, you can wrap around the hip, spanning the belt loops. That makes for better concealment, while still optimizing presentation. The side wings give this holster greater stability than you would typically get wit a snap-on design. tk

So this is my finalized version of of my new model. I call it the Shield. It's a quick-detachable, high-ride holster with a steel band in the mouth that adds real crispness to retention. It's made out of two layers of 6/7 veg-tan that have been treated with vinegaroon, then waxed and lacquered with an airbrush. The straps are detachable, so if they stretch they can be easily replaced. The snaps are military-grade pull-the-dots. It's sewn with 346 thread on top and 277 below. The high-relief molding on the front keeps the back flat, enabling it to be pulled very tightly to the belt, for better concealment. This version is cut to fit both the Glock 17 & 19. Thoughts? Criticisms? tk

Dieselman, good idea to try restitching. In my experience, you learn a lot by trying to fix mistakes. Think of the stitching as the framework for a molded holster. If the stitching isn't right, the molding won't be right, and the gun won't be held securely. Take a look at the pictures below, of a pancake holster I made for a SIG P225. The majority of the pistol rides above your belt instead if below it. To make that work, you need a really stiff back plate for the holsters, and a tightly molded front plate. And to make the molding work, your stitching lines have to be on the money.

fine job! of course, I'd expect nothing less from you.... tk