wizard of tragacanth

Hey Dwight, I'm sure you're right about dip-dying being the preferred method. I'm just starting out and this was only my fourth project (second holster). You know how it goes for the newb... it's an evolutionary process. First you go to Tandy and get what they recommend. Then you get on a forum and find out about better options. Then you experiment and find out what you like. Today or tomorrow, I am starting three belts. I plan on dipping them in vinegaroon (my batch should be good to go now). In my current learning stage, I am thinking that I will use vinegaroon for all of my black projects, Neatsfoot oil for natural colors, and oil dye if I need something in between. I had already bought the Pro Oil before I learned about vinegaroon, so I thought it would be good to try it. Besides, the best way to learn is through experience. Anyway, I'm not sure that dipping in oil dye would have solved my problem on this hide. I had applied the oil dye fairly heavily already and it just didn't work. It seems that dipping would not have helped, but I don't know.. Nick

Well, Pro Oil let me down on a project that I just finished. I did a holster using two different hides. The hide that I used for the back piece took the dye well but the front piece came out gray. I sure wished that I had tested it first, before using it on the project, but I didn't. So, I had some scraps from the hide that didn't take the dye well. I found that if I used Neatsfoot Oil on top of the Pro Oil, it darkened up a little bit but not quite enough. When I put Satin Shene over the Pro Oil, it looked pretty good but I didn't want to take any chance that it wouldn't come out right. I tried another experiment. I put on an application of Pro Oil, let it dry, followed with USMC and it came out Jet Black, just like I wanted. After buffing it with sheep's wool, it looked fantastic. I finished it with Satin Shene but that did not change the look from what it was after buffing. USMC saved the project and am I ever happy about that. I had put a lot of time into that holster and didn't want to mess it up. Whew! That was a close one. Nick

Hmmm, yeah, how does that attachment system work? I will be finishing up a removable strap, flat-back holster in the next couple of days or so. I certainly went about it a different way... kind of a round-a-bout, stupid way... but I think it will work. Your approach gave me some better ideas than what I came up with. Well, it's only my second holster, so I'm not kicking myself too hard! Nice work... thanks for the inspiration. Nick

Wow, Mike, that's really interesting from a color perspective. Sounds like that was the beginning of the hazing process for the new recruits... "Make these brown shoes, black". I'm 59, so I wasn't in the Brown Shoe Army, but I can just imagine. Nick

Denster, Thanks for the info. I understand all of you good points. There are several reasons that I was considering the GA5. One, I have problems with repetitive motion stress and the manual action would only make that worse. And two, the Tippmann just sounds ridiculously overpriced. If the Tippmann were say, $500 - $600, it would make sense to me as a hobby machine. But if I had to do any large orders, I cannot see doing any volume, manually. I believe the $1350 for the GA5 does include the speed reducer, servo motor and the adjustable height base. But, I do understand that functionally, the electric does not offer anything over the manual and in the end, the manual is easier for the user to repair. I guess when I get as much experience as you guys have, I will understand and appreciate the Tippmann for what it is. Right now, I am coming from a position of ignorance, so please forgive my non-sense. Thanks for telling me about the feed dogs on the GA5 and pointing me in the right direction to the Cobra. However, with the much higher cost of the Cobra, it may be a very long time before I get one.

Hi Kiernan, Thanks for the enlightement! Also, I did not know that the Tippmann was based on an old Singer design... very interesting. Nick

Thanks Chris and Shooter McGavin. I guess the bottom line is that I need to keep both USMC and Pro Oil on hand... for different needs. One other thing that I noticed about these dyes but did not mention earlier. The USMC appears to have brown under-tones and the Pro Oil appears to have blue under-tones. I have heard of using blue, brown and IIRC, green as a base, to make a darker black. I am thinking that since the Pro Oil already seems to have a lot of blue in it, that using green or even red may achieve the look that I am after. I think it's worth the few dollars for the experiment to find out. Nick

I am very new to this craft and so far I am only making black holsters. I used USMC Black on a couple of projects and while very satisfied with the outcome, I cannot tolerate all of the buffing necessary for this dye. I have some problems with repetitive motion stress on my arm and hand, so this doesn't help. I tried Pro Oil on a couple of scraps before using it on a finished project. After top-coating with Satin Shene (as I did with the USMC Black) the result does not seem as good as the USMC... to my eye, anyway. The color did not seem as deep, nor as even, though I used the same techniques for both. Also, the Pro Oil seemed to "raise the grain" or "open the grain". It had a rougher texture, while the USMC dyed piece was as smooth as glass. I used scraps from several different hides. One of the Pro Oil pieces came out perfect but the others did not. Now, I must say that the average person probably would never notice a difference. It takes fairly close inspection, with samples side by side but once you know the difference, you could pick it out every time. I tried deglazing one piece, dying one piece which had been wetted with water, and one piece that was completely dry, etc. The Pro Oil dye instructions say to use it while still damp after cleaning with Fiebing's #12 Deglazer. I want the most color-fast dye and the Pro Oil seems to be it. I rinsed the wool dauber from both dyes. The USMC dauber came out gray, while the Pro Oil remained Jet Black. You don't want to have any accidents with Pro Oil Black! The Pro Oil Black requires almost zero buffing, so that's a big plus. Do I just need to get a better technique to get a deeper black and smooth grain from the Pro Oil? What have your results been? Which one did you settle on and why? Thanks, Nick

Hello Everyone, I have been lurking here for a while and up to this point I have found all of the answers to my questions by using the search function, but now I have to ask... why wouldn't you get something like a Techsew GA5-1R, rather than a Tippmann? The Techsew is only $150 more than the sale price of the Tippmann, and seems to be so much more machine. I know some people like to avoid machines and do everything as close to "handmade" as they possibly can. Is that it, or is there some other reason? I know that I would want an electric machine if I had "several large holster orders" on my desk. If I ever get to the point of getting paid for my leather work, I would be jumping on a GA5-1R a.s.a.p. It was on sale a week or so ago for $1250 but I simply cannot justify the purchase for myself at this time. Nick