wizard of tragacanth

Finished my first gun belt. It was also my first project using vinegaroon (vinegar black). The gun belt was made for a friend. It is 32", 2" wide, single ply (I don't have a machine), 12 oz. cow hide. Since the leather is thick and the Tandy buckle is rather massive, I used oval holes. They are spaced 3/4" apart. This was the first time that I had used an oval punch. I should have sought advice on this forum about how to keep the oval holes parallel to the edges of the belt but I recklessly forged ahead with a silly idea. I put blue painters tape across the belt, such that the top edge of the tape was at the center-line of the belt. Then I tried to follow that line by eye-balling the oval punch head. Well, it didn't work well. A couple of holes were skewed, tilted from the center line. When I removed the tape, it took a little hide with it. I was not happy about that. Later, in an attempt to correct the tilted holes, I cased the leather, inserted an oval punch and twisted it to straighten it out. It actually worked pretty well but I don't know if they will stay that way or later relax back to their tilted state. The vinegaroon was my first batch, brewed for two weeks. It worked great. I had no problem with that. However, I did three dips with the belt, which pretty much soaked it. Now the smell is pretty strong. Next time, I will dip it and wait 30 seconds or so to see if the leather gets dark enough with a single dip. Then, if need be, I will dip it again. Hopefully, I can get the deep black with less saturation and less remaining smell. Also, I only let it air out for a day before I put the top-coat on, so I would imagine that that only sealed in the smell and now will take even longer for the smell to dissipate... if ever. I may be making it sound a little worse than it is. You can really only smell it if it is an inch from your nose, it's not like it stinks up the room. Questions, comments or advice are all welcome. Nick

Nice work. What kind of machine did you pick up? Looks like you used an oval punch for the holes on your fiancee's belt. I just fininshed a 2" belt with oval holes. It was very difficult for me to get it right. Well, it was my first one and I had trouble keeping the axis of the ovals parallel to the mid-line of the belt. A couple were tilted, so I cased the leather, inserted the punch and twisted them pretty close to where they should have been. Maybe that's a hack fix but it was the only one that I could come up with. I will post a pic of it in my own thread. Nick

Since I always like to have several options... are there any other sources for a Landis P-30, other than Pilgrim? Thanks, Nick

Lobo, that's a great post... puts it all in a nutshell. I was a little peeved that I had purchased two different leather destroyers... I mean, skivers... and now I don't use either one of them. I found a drum sander works much better for me. I guess everyone ends up with stuff that they don't need. I feel a little better knowing that I am not the only one. Nick

You certainly did use the feedback to your advantage. IMHO, both holsters show improvement in every area... better designs and better execution.

I'm feeling sleepy... sleepy... I feel my resistance fading... slipping away... falling... okaaay Mike... whatever you say... I'll do it... Oh, wow, I feel llike I just woke up... where was I, oh yeah, thanks Mike for helping me to achieve the high level of quality and appearnce that your holsters have and not allowing me to wallow in mediocrity. Seriously. Thanks for not giving up on me! Nick

Well, I Googled "snap backer" and got a link to a leatherwork.net post.. You can find them here... http://www.highdesertleather.com/id74.html Nick

Really, that is quite surprising. I may give it a shot but I'm not promising anything.

Handsome stuff!

Mmmm, very nice.

Mike, Thanks for the tip, I may try it but I think that using an awl is going to be too much stress on my hand, wrist and arm.

It might just be that piece of leather. The first piece that I had took about five strokes or mort to cut through, even with a brand new blade in my utility knife. The next hide I got, cut like butter, in comparison.

It's a good first prototype. I can see why you would want quick-release on a crossdraw. You would have to take your belt off to put the holster on or take it off. It's a good concept and a nice color too. When you do it over, you might want to consider a body shield to protect your tummy from the hammer. BTW, I have carried a S&W 638 Bodyguard for 5 years, IWB. The holster did not fully cover the alloy frame near the grip and the finish corroded. Yes, I admit that I was negligent in not wiping down my weapon when I put it away every night. Anyway, my point is that any metal parts should be protected from perspiration. Nick

Okay, here's a tip. I started my first project on the drill press with a 1/16" bit because I read a post where someone was using that size. The holes were so tight that I had to use pliers to pull the needle through. I went up to the next size... 5/64"... bingo, that was it. Hand stitching went so much faster. One drawback is that the 5/64" bit is larger than the stitch groove. It goes somewhat out over the edges of the groove. It doesn't look bad but it would look better if stayed completely within the groove. I will probably contine with the 5/64" bit because I get repetitive motion stress to my hand and forearm, so it is more important to avoid that, than to have perfect stitching. Most people would never notice the difference anyway. Maybe I can find a larger stitch groover. Nick

Guy, Did you find this thread regarding the use of EVOO, Neatsfoot and other oils? http://leatherworker.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=27237

Nice, clean look! Glad you came out of lurking mode. And for the rest of you lurkers... olly olly oxen free! Nick

A trick to use with contact cement to get the parts lined up is to use wax paper. I used to do this when I was laminating Formica to MDF. Coat both sides as usual. When they are ready to bond, cover the bottom piece with wax paper. Set the top piece on and line it up as you want it. Now, slightly lift one edge of the top piece, maintaing your position, and fold back a corner of the wax paper, exposing part of the bottom piece. Carefully maintain your lined-up parts and let the top piece settle gently on the exposed piece. I say gently because if it is not lined-up, you have a chance to pull it off. Once you are satisfied that it is lined-up, press the top piece hard enough to bond to the bottom piece. Be careful, don't trap the wax paper in there. Let's say you had "U" or "V" shaped parts. Do the top end of one side of the U, then expose the other top side of the U and bond that side. Now you can slowly slide the wax paper out, walking your finger down the edges and bonding them as you go. That's just an example, do it the way it makes the most sense or is the most appropriate for your situation. I hope that made sense. Nick

That's a nice set. I'll have to try some tooling some day... well, after I get everything else sorted out.

Guy, Search the forum for EVOO (Extra Virgin Olive Oil) and you should find lots of info on olive oil. Many people use it.

Gum Tragacanth is only for edges. Well you could use it on the flesh side to smooth it down if needed. If you want a water resistant top-coat, an acrylic like Satin Shene or Mop n' Glo (diluted 50/50 with water, per katsass formula). People use bee's wax, carnuba wax, etc. but I don't think carnuba wax is water resistant at all, or at least not compared to an acrylic. Also, waxes do require some maintenance, ocassional reaplication. I know that people use olive oil and apparently love it. Every time I think about that, it makes me wonder if the oil goes rancid? Personally, I would not use a food product but that's just me. Most people do not like to use Edge Kote. Use your Gum Tragacanth alone on the edges. Some people are not satisfied with their result from Gum Tragacanth and move to a formula offered by Hidepounder. Search for Hidepounder edges and you will find it. Well, I'm new myself, so I'm just a step ahead of you. I think the information in this post is fairly accurate but hopefully others will join in and correct any inaccuracies and give their recommendations as well. Nick

Sorry, I have nothing to add to the conversation. I was just driving through and I had to stop and say... CHRIS... THAT IS JUST AWESOME WORK!

Are you looking for dye? Do you want black? If so, how about making some of your own vinegaroon?

Interesting video... thanks for the link! I found it particularly interesting that he warned against using acrylic top-coat. He recommends Sno-Seal.

Viking... thank you for your kind words. I think you are right that one should not try too many new tricks at one time, good advice. This holster has several things that I feel very good about... much better edges, better stitching and I think it has some style to it (though that is a matter of personal taste). I'm glad to hear that you like the two-tone. I wondered how that would go over. Another thing is that this holster is super comfortable, but then it's a flat-back OWB, so why wouldn't it be. I took this holster to the local Tandy to show it to a guy with whom I had consulted regarding a dye problem. I wanted to show him the final results. He said, "Your stitching looks real good. Did you do that on a machine?" I told him it was hand-stitched. He asked if I had taken his stitching class. I said no and asked if he thought that I should? He didn't really respond to that. He looked the holster over and again remarked about the stitching, as if I may have been telling him a fib. I told him I used an over-stitch wheel but I didn't mention the drill press! There is a secret mistake on this holster. I originally designed it for the non-threaded, stock barrel. I sat in my car and found the correct height and angle of cant for the holster to ride in a good spot. Later, I changed to the threaded barrel, which is 9/16" longer. I made the holster longer to accomodate that but I did not change anything else. Now, it pushes on the bottom seat cushion when I am seated in the vehicle. Design flaw, for sure. Now if I could tackle some boning and learn to keep my fingernail marks off of it... well, that would be a good goal for my next hoster. Nick

I agree about the boning. What I did was pure hand-molding, complete with fingernail marks to show for it. Truthfully, I was afraid that I would mess up the boning and ruin the project, so I just didn't do it. I don't know how much boning can actually be done on 8oz. leather. Personally, I do not care for the extreme boning that is sometimes seen, where the holster looks like a replica of the gun, and I know that you are not suggesting that. I do agree that some boning would be an improvement. I can get a full firing grip. The strap does not get in the way at all, however, the space nearest to the trigger guard is borderline tight for my second finger... not too tight, but a little more room would be better. The stitching around the finger guard and under the barrel is too far away. I don't know why I did that. I made it nice and close in my first holster. I wasn't really thinking when I free-handed the stictch groover. I just made a flowing line without thinking about fit at all. Since I molded the holster flat, when I put it on and the wings are pulled in, the gun is in there real tight. I don't know how this will work out over time. My biggest complaint is that the straps creak like crazy. People would wonder what the heck is going on in there. I'm pretty sure it is the Satin Shene pieces rubbing together. If I am ever to wear this holster, I have to solve that problem. I wore it around the house a little bit today, thinking that it may "break in" but I didn't have it on that long and there was no difference that I could detect. I may try removing the Satin Shene in those areas and putting on some Neatfoot oil, unless someone else has a better solution. I can't express how much I learned from this project. Even if it never works as a carry rig, it was worth the build for the lessons alone. Nick