wizard of tragacanth

A trick to use with contact cement to get the parts lined up is to use wax paper. I used to do this when I was laminating Formica to MDF. Coat both sides as usual. When they are ready to bond, cover the bottom piece with wax paper. Set the top piece on and line it up as you want it. Now, slightly lift one edge of the top piece, maintaing your position, and fold back a corner of the wax paper, exposing part of the bottom piece. Carefully maintain your lined-up parts and let the top piece settle gently on the exposed piece. I say gently because if it is not lined-up, you have a chance to pull it off. Once you are satisfied that it is lined-up, press the top piece hard enough to bond to the bottom piece. Be careful, don't trap the wax paper in there. Let's say you had "U" or "V" shaped parts. Do the top end of one side of the U, then expose the other top side of the U and bond that side. Now you can slowly slide the wax paper out, walking your finger down the edges and bonding them as you go. That's just an example, do it the way it makes the most sense or is the most appropriate for your situation. I hope that made sense. Nick

That's a nice set. I'll have to try some tooling some day... well, after I get everything else sorted out.

Guy, Search the forum for EVOO (Extra Virgin Olive Oil) and you should find lots of info on olive oil. Many people use it.

Gum Tragacanth is only for edges. Well you could use it on the flesh side to smooth it down if needed. If you want a water resistant top-coat, an acrylic like Satin Shene or Mop n' Glo (diluted 50/50 with water, per katsass formula). People use bee's wax, carnuba wax, etc. but I don't think carnuba wax is water resistant at all, or at least not compared to an acrylic. Also, waxes do require some maintenance, ocassional reaplication. I know that people use olive oil and apparently love it. Every time I think about that, it makes me wonder if the oil goes rancid? Personally, I would not use a food product but that's just me. Most people do not like to use Edge Kote. Use your Gum Tragacanth alone on the edges. Some people are not satisfied with their result from Gum Tragacanth and move to a formula offered by Hidepounder. Search for Hidepounder edges and you will find it. Well, I'm new myself, so I'm just a step ahead of you. I think the information in this post is fairly accurate but hopefully others will join in and correct any inaccuracies and give their recommendations as well. Nick

Sorry, I have nothing to add to the conversation. I was just driving through and I had to stop and say... CHRIS... THAT IS JUST AWESOME WORK!

Are you looking for dye? Do you want black? If so, how about making some of your own vinegaroon?

Interesting video... thanks for the link! I found it particularly interesting that he warned against using acrylic top-coat. He recommends Sno-Seal.

Viking... thank you for your kind words. I think you are right that one should not try too many new tricks at one time, good advice. This holster has several things that I feel very good about... much better edges, better stitching and I think it has some style to it (though that is a matter of personal taste). I'm glad to hear that you like the two-tone. I wondered how that would go over. Another thing is that this holster is super comfortable, but then it's a flat-back OWB, so why wouldn't it be. I took this holster to the local Tandy to show it to a guy with whom I had consulted regarding a dye problem. I wanted to show him the final results. He said, "Your stitching looks real good. Did you do that on a machine?" I told him it was hand-stitched. He asked if I had taken his stitching class. I said no and asked if he thought that I should? He didn't really respond to that. He looked the holster over and again remarked about the stitching, as if I may have been telling him a fib. I told him I used an over-stitch wheel but I didn't mention the drill press! There is a secret mistake on this holster. I originally designed it for the non-threaded, stock barrel. I sat in my car and found the correct height and angle of cant for the holster to ride in a good spot. Later, I changed to the threaded barrel, which is 9/16" longer. I made the holster longer to accomodate that but I did not change anything else. Now, it pushes on the bottom seat cushion when I am seated in the vehicle. Design flaw, for sure. Now if I could tackle some boning and learn to keep my fingernail marks off of it... well, that would be a good goal for my next hoster. Nick

I agree about the boning. What I did was pure hand-molding, complete with fingernail marks to show for it. Truthfully, I was afraid that I would mess up the boning and ruin the project, so I just didn't do it. I don't know how much boning can actually be done on 8oz. leather. Personally, I do not care for the extreme boning that is sometimes seen, where the holster looks like a replica of the gun, and I know that you are not suggesting that. I do agree that some boning would be an improvement. I can get a full firing grip. The strap does not get in the way at all, however, the space nearest to the trigger guard is borderline tight for my second finger... not too tight, but a little more room would be better. The stitching around the finger guard and under the barrel is too far away. I don't know why I did that. I made it nice and close in my first holster. I wasn't really thinking when I free-handed the stictch groover. I just made a flowing line without thinking about fit at all. Since I molded the holster flat, when I put it on and the wings are pulled in, the gun is in there real tight. I don't know how this will work out over time. My biggest complaint is that the straps creak like crazy. People would wonder what the heck is going on in there. I'm pretty sure it is the Satin Shene pieces rubbing together. If I am ever to wear this holster, I have to solve that problem. I wore it around the house a little bit today, thinking that it may "break in" but I didn't have it on that long and there was no difference that I could detect. I may try removing the Satin Shene in those areas and putting on some Neatfoot oil, unless someone else has a better solution. I can't express how much I learned from this project. Even if it never works as a carry rig, it was worth the build for the lessons alone. Nick

Hi Guys, I feel that I must post some of my work. I feel that I don't really know who I am talking to until I see some of their work. It's kind of like putting a face with a name. So, in a way of introducing myself, here are some pics of a Sig P229 holster that I just finished. My first project was a paddle holster for my Kahr P380, then I made the mag pouch that you see here. After that, I found this forum and a whole new world opened up to me. I will be re-designing and making a new mag pouch for this set. Since this will be my primary carry gun, I will also be making some other hosters for it, of different designs. Thanks to all of you who shared your knowledge and experience. My first holster was not too bad, but my second one is significantly better in every respect, ONLY due to the great people on this forum. Comments welcome. Thanks. Nick

Hey Dwight, I'm sure you're right about dip-dying being the preferred method. I'm just starting out and this was only my fourth project (second holster). You know how it goes for the newb... it's an evolutionary process. First you go to Tandy and get what they recommend. Then you get on a forum and find out about better options. Then you experiment and find out what you like. Today or tomorrow, I am starting three belts. I plan on dipping them in vinegaroon (my batch should be good to go now). In my current learning stage, I am thinking that I will use vinegaroon for all of my black projects, Neatsfoot oil for natural colors, and oil dye if I need something in between. I had already bought the Pro Oil before I learned about vinegaroon, so I thought it would be good to try it. Besides, the best way to learn is through experience. Anyway, I'm not sure that dipping in oil dye would have solved my problem on this hide. I had applied the oil dye fairly heavily already and it just didn't work. It seems that dipping would not have helped, but I don't know.. Nick

Well, Pro Oil let me down on a project that I just finished. I did a holster using two different hides. The hide that I used for the back piece took the dye well but the front piece came out gray. I sure wished that I had tested it first, before using it on the project, but I didn't. So, I had some scraps from the hide that didn't take the dye well. I found that if I used Neatsfoot Oil on top of the Pro Oil, it darkened up a little bit but not quite enough. When I put Satin Shene over the Pro Oil, it looked pretty good but I didn't want to take any chance that it wouldn't come out right. I tried another experiment. I put on an application of Pro Oil, let it dry, followed with USMC and it came out Jet Black, just like I wanted. After buffing it with sheep's wool, it looked fantastic. I finished it with Satin Shene but that did not change the look from what it was after buffing. USMC saved the project and am I ever happy about that. I had put a lot of time into that holster and didn't want to mess it up. Whew! That was a close one. Nick

Hmmm, yeah, how does that attachment system work? I will be finishing up a removable strap, flat-back holster in the next couple of days or so. I certainly went about it a different way... kind of a round-a-bout, stupid way... but I think it will work. Your approach gave me some better ideas than what I came up with. Well, it's only my second holster, so I'm not kicking myself too hard! Nice work... thanks for the inspiration. Nick

Wow, Mike, that's really interesting from a color perspective. Sounds like that was the beginning of the hazing process for the new recruits... "Make these brown shoes, black". I'm 59, so I wasn't in the Brown Shoe Army, but I can just imagine. Nick

Denster, Thanks for the info. I understand all of you good points. There are several reasons that I was considering the GA5. One, I have problems with repetitive motion stress and the manual action would only make that worse. And two, the Tippmann just sounds ridiculously overpriced. If the Tippmann were say, $500 - $600, it would make sense to me as a hobby machine. But if I had to do any large orders, I cannot see doing any volume, manually. I believe the $1350 for the GA5 does include the speed reducer, servo motor and the adjustable height base. But, I do understand that functionally, the electric does not offer anything over the manual and in the end, the manual is easier for the user to repair. I guess when I get as much experience as you guys have, I will understand and appreciate the Tippmann for what it is. Right now, I am coming from a position of ignorance, so please forgive my non-sense. Thanks for telling me about the feed dogs on the GA5 and pointing me in the right direction to the Cobra. However, with the much higher cost of the Cobra, it may be a very long time before I get one.

Hi Kiernan, Thanks for the enlightement! Also, I did not know that the Tippmann was based on an old Singer design... very interesting. Nick

Thanks Chris and Shooter McGavin. I guess the bottom line is that I need to keep both USMC and Pro Oil on hand... for different needs. One other thing that I noticed about these dyes but did not mention earlier. The USMC appears to have brown under-tones and the Pro Oil appears to have blue under-tones. I have heard of using blue, brown and IIRC, green as a base, to make a darker black. I am thinking that since the Pro Oil already seems to have a lot of blue in it, that using green or even red may achieve the look that I am after. I think it's worth the few dollars for the experiment to find out. Nick

I am very new to this craft and so far I am only making black holsters. I used USMC Black on a couple of projects and while very satisfied with the outcome, I cannot tolerate all of the buffing necessary for this dye. I have some problems with repetitive motion stress on my arm and hand, so this doesn't help. I tried Pro Oil on a couple of scraps before using it on a finished project. After top-coating with Satin Shene (as I did with the USMC Black) the result does not seem as good as the USMC... to my eye, anyway. The color did not seem as deep, nor as even, though I used the same techniques for both. Also, the Pro Oil seemed to "raise the grain" or "open the grain". It had a rougher texture, while the USMC dyed piece was as smooth as glass. I used scraps from several different hides. One of the Pro Oil pieces came out perfect but the others did not. Now, I must say that the average person probably would never notice a difference. It takes fairly close inspection, with samples side by side but once you know the difference, you could pick it out every time. I tried deglazing one piece, dying one piece which had been wetted with water, and one piece that was completely dry, etc. The Pro Oil dye instructions say to use it while still damp after cleaning with Fiebing's #12 Deglazer. I want the most color-fast dye and the Pro Oil seems to be it. I rinsed the wool dauber from both dyes. The USMC dauber came out gray, while the Pro Oil remained Jet Black. You don't want to have any accidents with Pro Oil Black! The Pro Oil Black requires almost zero buffing, so that's a big plus. Do I just need to get a better technique to get a deeper black and smooth grain from the Pro Oil? What have your results been? Which one did you settle on and why? Thanks, Nick

Hello Everyone, I have been lurking here for a while and up to this point I have found all of the answers to my questions by using the search function, but now I have to ask... why wouldn't you get something like a Techsew GA5-1R, rather than a Tippmann? The Techsew is only $150 more than the sale price of the Tippmann, and seems to be so much more machine. I know some people like to avoid machines and do everything as close to "handmade" as they possibly can. Is that it, or is there some other reason? I know that I would want an electric machine if I had "several large holster orders" on my desk. If I ever get to the point of getting paid for my leather work, I would be jumping on a GA5-1R a.s.a.p. It was on sale a week or so ago for $1250 but I simply cannot justify the purchase for myself at this time. Nick