[Saddle Design And Patterning]

Keith,

This sounds like a great opportunity, but unfortunately I won't be able to attend. Will there be course materials that I could purchase? I know it's not the same as attending, but I would be interested nonetheless. I need to make plans to attend this show in the future, but I doubt my wife would view it as a vacation.

Randy

[Third Saddle - Will James]

Thanks to all for the 'attaboys' and the tutorial on billet ties. I rode 10-12 miles last week and really enjoyed it. The ol' mare never complained either. When I put the saddle on the rack, I understood what Oltoot and Big Sioux were saying about the rigging. It certainly works, but it's an area for improvement.

Thanks again for the comments,

Randy

[Third Saddle - Will James]

Ron,

I agree with you on the horn cap. I also need a better pattern for the wrap. I don't think it fit as good as I wanted. I need a little more work on my edges too. I am starting to get real picky and I figure that's a good sign. A beader is on my list. I was going to order a swivel knife beader from Barry King, but am reconsidering it now. I just dropped a pretty good chunk on tolls from Bruce Johnson. It's probably already in a box so adding an edger is too late. Anyway, I want to get a little more creative on my borders. I thought about the triangular lacing pattern on the billets, but haven't figured the pattern out yet. I will see if it's in any books that I have and it won't take long to redo it. To be honest though, I just wanted to get this together and cinch it on a horse. I have spent to much time building saddles and not enough time using them.

The tree is from Sonny Felkins and is easily the best I have seen, but that's a pretty small sample. It took about 8-10 weeks, but there were a couple hang ups with the order. It was definitely worth the wait and I know Oltoot speaks highly of their trees.

Oltoot,

Thanks for the tips on riggings and Cheyenne rolls. I kind of followed the Harry Adams book on the first Cheyenne roll and he doesn't roll the cantle filler over into the Cheyenne roll. That seemed to work out well for me and since it's a little shorter it doesn't look as bulky as this one. I can see where the skiving would help me get a tighter fit.

If I stick with my philosophy of building something different, then I don't know what #4 will be. Maybe I should let you guys vote on it. I have made two flat plates and two Cheyenne rolls, so I don't think it will have either of those.

I didn't lace my skirts all the way to the edge for the reason you state. Plus they are pretty short and curved back in some, so I hope they won't sore a horse. Regardless, point well taken. I need to learn more about saddle fit, so that should be a good undertaking before I begin the process again.

Randy

[Third Saddle - Will James]

I just finished this Will James that I started last July. Now I feel bad for asking Goldshot why his saddle took so long. This is my third saddle and I have tried to do something different on each one so I am learning something new. Lacing the swell cover was one of the new tasks. It’s a 15 inch seat on a Quality Mfg. tree. It’s Hermann Oak leather from Panhandle in Amarillo. Everything is hand sewn, but I have been looking for a machine.

Some of my struggles along the way were documented in these threads and a couple others.

Rigging Plates and Skirts: http://leatherworker.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=58791

I really struggled with this after I cut my skirts a little shallower than I wanted. I was ready to order more leather and redo them, but I got a lot of good advice for keeping them. I did change the rear rigging style which I think was a good decision. The original dees would have less movement than these. Plus I already had these dees that I didn’t use on another project. The rigging may be more prominent than some would want, but all in all I like the way it looks.

Cheyenne Roll: http://leatherworker.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=57986

This was my first Cheyenne roll though I did finish the one on my wife’s barrel saddle before I finished this one. With The roll and cantle binding this one was five pieces of leather whereas hers was only four (the cantle filler wasn’t part of the roll). I think I like four better, but sewing this went faster than I anticipated.

My daughter is coming home from college for the weekend, so we are going riding tomorrow.

Critiques are welcome and expected. Number 4 may be a ways down the line, but I want to learn.

Thanks,

Randy

[Breast Collar Dees]

Thanks for the comments and suggestions. I will study this some more tonight. I also found another thread on breast collar dee placement.

http://leatherworker.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=57295

Randy

[Breast Collar Dees]

Thanks Keith,

It's too late for me to mount them on the rigging plate or skirt. When I started the saddle, I envisioned them being mounted at the latigo holder. I just didn't know exactly how I was going to do it. Now I am faced with that task and scratching my head. I could mount them a little lower and screw/nail them through the rigging plate to the tree, but I think I have too much 'bulk' under the front jockey already. That's another topic in itself.

Randy

[Breast Collar Dees]

I need some ideas/advice on attaching my breast collar dees. They can't go under the seat. Should I do something like this or incorporate them into my latigo/cinch holders? This is my last piece before oiling and assembly. Except maybe rubbing edges a little more. Thanks,

Randy

[Here's The Deuce]

My wife got a pretty good ride in last weekend (4-5 miles). No complaints on the seat, so I did something right. I get less impressed with my finish everyday, but that's another story. Thanks for all the tips and discussion. I'll never look at a saddle seat the same again.

#3 should be done soon. I'll post pics then.

Randy

[A Good Font To Carve]

Thanks for the tips. I printed a couple from Word to try. I don't remember the fonts, but they looked good on paper. However they weren't easy to carve. I'll try some others.

Randy

[Rigging Sketch]

Andy,

My suggestion would be to build them one at a time. Preferably yours first, so you will have more experience when you build your lady's. I was building my second and third simultaneously and ended up really only working on one at a time. If you are full time leatherworker it makes sense to be working on two at a time, but not for us hobbyists.

It will be a rewarding journey. Enjoy,

Randy

[A Good Font To Carve]

I don't have a set of alphabet stamps and need to put a name on a dog collar. The letters will be 5/8 to 3/4 inches (16-19 mm). I was going to print the name, then trace and carve it. Any suggestions on a font that would be easy to carve and look good.

Thanks,

Randy

[Saddle #1]

I just put down my Stohlman volume 2 and then looked at your saddle and had to look again. Nice work. It looks like you took your time. The swell lacing and edges look good.

Randy

[Saddle Assembly And Oiling]

I apologize for the confusing questions, but I am back on track. I believe it all comes back to assembly order and the fact that I am mixing methods from multiple sources (Watt, Adams, and Stohlman). I am looking for my groove, but I am a long ways from answering questions.

Thanks for helping me learn.

Randy

[Saddle Assembly And Oiling]

I watched part of the JW DVD this morning. Though he doesn't mention it specifically, he does oil the part of the skirts that contact the bars before he installs them.

Randy

[Saddle Assembly And Oiling]

Ron,

If you think I am confusing you, you should see me. Ha.

My first saddle basically followed Dusty Johnson's plan. The second was the in-skirt rigging and I was making up a lot on the go. It was easy to oil everything because the skirts/rigging went on last. Jeremiah Watt installs skirts before the back of the rigging so the tugs are under the rigging. He doesn't mention oiling until late in the process. I have followed enough of his steps up to now, it's kind of hard to change.

I think I am going to oil the parts of the skirts that aren't visible before I install them and then oil the visible parts when I do the rest of the saddle. I am hoping to find a 'system' that works for me, but I don't know if I will ever build enough saddles to accomplish that. However, since I have been numbering my saddles with two digits (I didn't figure I would ever need three), my daughter pointed out that if I don't build 10 I wasted the first digit.

Thanks for taking the time to reply. I appreciate the advice.

Randy

[Saddle Assembly And Oiling]

Thanks for the feedback. I am not sure what I was thinking about installing the skirts ahead of the swell cover. I hope to get the swell cover installed before the weekend so I can start thinking about the seat.

I need to look over someone's shoulder for a while. I need the skirts in place before I fit my seat. Do you install the skirts temporarily to fit the seat and then wait until the seat is fit for final installation? If so, do you pull the rear lugs over the top of the rigging plate (flat plate rigging)? My educational material says they go on under the plates.

I am probably mixing methods from several makers. I don't know if that's good or bad, I am just trying to find my way.

Thanks,

Randy

[Saddle Assembly And Oiling]

I am almost done with my skirts and have my riggings installed. I am wondering if I should oil my skirts before installation. I won't be able to get to most of them after they are installed. If I do, should I oil everything I have made to this point?

I am also thinking that I should cover my swells before installing skirts.

Thanks in advance for the advice.

Randy

[Replacing Fleece]

Thanks for the tips. I will get some band aids and charge ahead.

Randy

[Replacing Fleece]

I volunteered to replace the fleece on a friend's saddle. Actually I got some round bales out of the deal, but now I might take them back.

Somebody ran the saddle strings all the way through which I can redo without repeating. However the pockets for the tree bars are sew through the fleece as well. Furthermore, the pockets are part of the rigging and go under the swell cover. I am pretty sure I can remove it all and sew the pockets back on before the fleece is installed. But then I would have to realign the riggings. So, should I:

1. Do this the easiest (fix it like it is now) but probably not correct method?

2. Remove the skirts and riggings and fix it like it should be?

3. Return the saddle as is along with the hay? (not really an option, but it crossed my mind)

Thanks,

Randy

[Here's The Deuce]

Billy,

This thread kind of took on it's own life, but the discussion has been great for me. Thanks for all the thoughts.

Randy

[Here's The Deuce]

Thanks Billy. I am locked on the metal strainer for now. If I ever get to a 4th saddle, I am leaning toward all leather.

Randy

[Here's The Deuce]

Big Sioux,

Thanks for the compliments. Those aren't the 50th welts, but they aren't the first either. They're just the first ones I kept. The skirts were modeled after the saddle this is intended to replace (reference comment to Bob above about what to copy). They don't look too out of balance to me, but I can see your point. I think they actually may have ended up a little shallower in the rear after I blocked them. The skirts on the reference saddle are not blocked. I see what you are talking about on the back of the skirts. I think the rear of the skirts gets straight too soon and the straight edge is to long. I hear Jeremiah Watt echoing in my ear, "There are no straight lines on a round skirt saddle." I'll do better on the Will James.

You are right, there is a lot of educational material available. Some is really good, some is ok and some not so good. I have a little of all three categories. What I use most are the Stohlman books, Watt DVD, Harry Adams' book, and this forum (in no particular order).

Try to stay warm up in SD.

Randy

[Here's The Deuce]

Bob,

I have thought about getting a good profile gauge and modeling a good seat. I guess since you did it that just means is was another good idea that I didn't act on. When I look at most of the saddles in my tack room, I am reminded of a statement from Stohlman's book regarding using poor saddles to learn construction. Basically, you can't learn how to make a good saddle, if all you do is look at poorly constructed saddles. I have a friend who recently purchased a really nice saddle. I may profile the seat on it.

Take care,

Randy

[Here's The Deuce]

Ron,

I appreciate you mentioning it, because the ground seat is the sculpted part of the saddle. The Cary Schwarz DVD I mentioned is called "The Ground Seat" and is produced by the Traditional Cowboy Arts Association. I think it's $45 on Amazon. I patched a triangular piece of leather in my Will James over the weekend to move the low point on the seat forward. I don't think it's as far forward as it should be, but it's a lot better. I am starting to see the triangle bicycle seat that is often mentioned. I would like to go to Prescott, but it's not in the budget this year.

Thanks again,

Randy

[Here's The Deuce]

Ron,

Thanks for the comments. I used Blevins buckles, but like you say we are talking ounces at this point. But take a few ounces out and pretty soon you are at a pound.

I delayed my reply because I have been looking at a lot of seats since you posted. I am thinking about buying Cary Schwarz's DVD on ground seats. Anyway, I think (and the key word is think) I get it. I do believe I have placed the rider a further back than I should have. I don't think it's too steep for the way it's formed, but if I moved the rider forward it probably would be. I also think I need some improvement near the cantle points (as well as many other places).

The saddle feels pretty comfortable on the stand. When it warms up a bit, I'll cinch it on a horse and see how the wife likes it.

I am getting back to work on my Will James today and am really taking a hard look at my ground seat, before I start working on my riggings.

Thanks again for making me think and study. It's good for the mind.

Randy