Johanna

Denise, with a Vista or better computer and good surfing habits, you don't need anything more than a Windows firewall behind a router. If the screen goes dark and the computer asks you for permission to do something, ask yourself if you initiated this action? If you didn't, tell it "no". If the computer is XP, I would update the OS or buy an Internet Security software from one of the big guys, like Symantec, that updates regularly. Always burn a recovery DVD for a new computer, and do regular backups. Then anything can happen and you don't need to care. Johanna

Okay everyone, please simmer down. This discussion is done. Closing this thread. Johanna

Bar C, Please don't fret about this post. You followed all the rules, and scratched the proverbial "tip of the iceberg". There is a lot more to this saga than just this post, but I don't want to hang the man's dirty laundry up for everyone to see. He knows where the problem in his business is, and it will take satisfying one-customer-at-a-time to regain his good reputation in the leather business. Yes, losing a sponsor hurts, but we would not have been able to accept Siegel's advertising anyway, not with all the customer service complaints we've receieved. Johanna PS Thanks FERG!

You betcha! Great idea. Johanna

tg lucas- I would have loved to see the look on her face! I think part of the problem (at least here in the US) is that the average consumer is so removed from what was once normal common practice for 10,000 years- kill the meat and eat it. Only the rancher and farm kids have ever seen an animal slaughtered and served. The rest of the kids think it comes in pretty packages at the grocery store. They purposely hide the butcher shop in most stores now- blood turns people off. 200 years ago, ordinary people knew how to kill and pluck a chicken or slaughter a hog, now almost no one does. Johanna

Hi my li`l Mojo, I hope Wade and the kids and Mama are well and happy. Kirsty and her family returned from Xmas break in South Africa with a lovely surprise for me......you know how we went on at length about what was it that made you realise that you`d crossed that line, well here we are! My other daughter who lives in Jo`burg bought a copy of "Hello" nearly a year ago because she was attracted by the Mandela exclusive and she knows that I`d done a few portraits in the past.....and there above his sofa is my...my...my picture.... But my word when you think of all the hundreds of pictures he has to choose from......

What we have here is a classic case of a good company that had a bad year. Steve Siegel has been very honest about the difficulties he's had, and has taken steps to correct the problems. I can't believe that forty years of good reputation can be forgotten so quickly because of one crummy year. I admire Steven Siegel for his honesty and integrity. He has tried to come out with innovative products (like the slaughter-free leather) and has sponsored contests, giveaways, and some pretty good deals that he was able to pass on to his customers. He also regularly visits the board and offers his knowledge, despite his busy schedule. Not many CEOs would bother with "the little guys", but Steven has always had time to answer questions. So things haven't been great at Siegel of CA last year. The boss has vowed changes and is working to resolve any remaining issues. If they have the product you want, I think they deserve a second chance. I'm not saying that because they are a sponsor here- I'm saying that because I'm impressed with Steven's candor, and his commitment to his customers. If you had a bad experience, send him a PM and he'll do what he can to make things right with you. In all the correspondence and phone calls I've had with Steven over the years, I've come to respect him as a businessman, and a friend. Johanna

This is just a note to myself that I'm caught up on this thread and all PMs at the moment.

Coming from you, that's high praise! Don't ever change, Chain, ride hard and be free. ~J PS Thanks for sharing your pics. I always look.

Let's stop talking about PETA. I get enough hate mail as it is. There is no reason to give them any additional publicity or incentive to want to come here. To the best of my knowledge, no PETA members belong to LW. If they do, they aren't causing trouble. This thread is about the potential slaughter-free leather has in the market. Let's stick to that conversation. Thank you! Johanna

We'd like to thank Standing Bear's Trading Post (WC & Sandi) for this generous offer to our members. Sandi explained to me that she was glad the forum was available to help teach people about leather, and keep the flame alive. If you place an order, please tell them "Thank you for supporting leatherworker.net members." We really appreciate all their cooperation through the years, for they believe in "education, entertainment & fellowship" too. Johanna