mrtreat32
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Posts posted by mrtreat32
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Did you end up finding this leather? I am looking for it also but its almost impossible to get in the US from what I have searched. Perlinger in Germany is the Tannery who supplies it to Hermes but they dont have a US distributor that Im aware of. The hide house website has a few similar types of leather but not exactly the same...the "aniline cowhide" leather they have comes in a varitey of colors and has a simialr shrunken pattern
Leather stores in asia and france carry it but its very pricey to have shipped.
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Hello Mike.
Welcome to the forum!
You mentioned that you have access to "offcut" leathers such as goatskin and other leathers.
Do you know if any of these places ship to the U.S. ? I guess there are advantages and disadvantages no matter where you are located when working with leather....you mentioned the US having better prices on machinery but on the other hand it is very hard to find the variety of leathers here that seem to be available in France and Asia. We have plenty of veg tan suppliers and Horween but unfortunately for me the style of leather goods Im interested in making I would much prefer goat in a variety of colors, calfskin (Haas), and shrunken calf which I see used often online from European leather workers but I can't find here. If you have any sites for this type of info I would greatly appreciate it and if there is anything you are looking for that is hard to get in France maybe I can point you in the right direction.
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I believe this is what you're looking for mrtreat,
***edit*** For what it's worth I would love to know how this is done. It looks as though there's 4-5 layers there but overall it doesn't seem to be too thick. That edge is also glass and colors sharp. I would think burnishing traditionally would muddle the edges of the various colors?
Yes, that is the picture I saw originally that sparked my interest.
Like you said I have burnished colored goat with different leathers and you can see the difference in colors but it is muddy looking and I wouldn't leave it unpainted in that state.
This looks like maybe each layer is burnished separately? Is my only guess
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Do you mean slunken or slink calf?
Maybe it goes by multiple names but I see it labeled as shrunken calf most often.
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I see a lot of beautiful products made online using shrunken calf and would like to try some out for my own projects.
I have done some research and the only tanneries that I can find online that sell shrunken calf are located in Germany and France.
Does anyone know of a supplier that sells it in the US. Or if any of the shops online ship smaller amounts to the US at reasonable prices.
thanks
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Experienced bad makers.
Besides the obvious difference in the look of the end product. Is there any particular reason you would choose one over the other or is this purely based on the look you want only.
Maybe Chrome tan leather would tend to be sewed inside the bag since they can't burnish as nicely. Any feedback would be appreciated.
thanks
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I have 2 of the douglas slim awl blades someone mentioned earlier and a vergez blanchard 43mm blade from fine leather working.
Out of those two brands the Vergez blanchard blade is thinner. I set it into the awl handle so that only a small amount is sticking out and after using a pricking iron I use just a small amount of the blade to finish opening the hole made by the iron. Poking through with only a little more than the tip of the blade on thinner prokects.. I sew 9spi and 11spi and if done that way it is not too big of a hole.
They also sell a size 38mm blade that has a width of only 2.5mm at its widest point.
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http://www.foamonline.com/ - if you want a lot of them custom built for a production run
Otherwise
You can just buy large sheets of foam from numerous sources and cut it down to size yourself. You can find sheets at Walmart, Hobby Lobby, and just about every craft store.
http://shop.hobbylobby.com/crafts-hobbies-and-fabric-crafts/craft-foam/craft-foam-sheets/
thank you.
this is what they use in watch straps and belt straps? I figured it was some special type of filler.
Before I read this I made a leather tray holder similar to the one posted and since I didnt have foam I cut a piece of cheaper 2-3oz veg tan and sewed that into the middle of the tray and was pretty happy with the results.
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Im curious what people use and where I could buy firm but cushioned inserts for leather?
I have seen leather valet trays that have a small amount of cushion at the bottom as well as high end watch straps and belts that seem to have some type of insert.
http://shop.mitchell-leather.com/images/1385317553690-1895039689.jpeg
here for example you can see that the sewn in section towards the middle is a insert of some type. I found something similar on the Sheridan leather website but is made for saddles and seats so its a bit thick for what I need. Im going to be using it on smaller applications so thin layers if possible.
thanks
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I have recently been using a scratch awl and making a round hole in the corner and have been pretty happy with the results.
It tends to give a single less slanted stitch in the corner but transitions to the next side a lot neater. Also have been punching the corner holes first so that they line up equally and have than been using the iron there as a starting point. I find it easier to add in one smaller or slightly larger stitch somewhere else and find it less noticeable.
I was curios as well how much bigger the teeth were on the different size vergez irons and if they were the same angle. Matt said above the angle is the same but would be interested in seeing the difference in the size of the teeth if anyone has a picture.
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Hi everyone, need some advice. I'm going to try to do a journal cover out of Horween Chromexcel. I don't know how to finish the edges with this material, and I'm doubtful (just based on the feel of the leather) that the traditional bevel, soap, burnish, dye, burnish again will work. Or does it? Any advice is much appreciated.
Widget
I had read traditional methods doesnt work well on chromexcel but after working with horween leathers for the past month or so I find that they burnish pretty good.
On the other hand I have other types of chrome tanned leather that I cant burnish much at all.
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You can always use polyester or a cheaper leather for the inside.
Is the calf leather from france not able to make the same wallet from that link without being too sloppy?
You would be able to make the front pockets from it the same with I did here with the goat but for the back I can't imagine it holding its shape going in and out of a pocket. Maybe in a purse where it doesn't get as much friction would be ok.
This goat one I also have a piece of thicker chromexcel on the back.. its 5oz or so horsehide but I skive the edges of it down to about 3.5oz. otherwise it doesn't seem like it would be sturdy enough using goat throughout.
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http://imgur.com/Wu4mncm,DjLfAtr,bj7IPS3
should be 3 images. The goat you can see in the background. Red, grey, navy, and yellow.
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Not sure which is front or back side..
Also easier since the hit from the iron on the backside makes sure that there aren't any blowout holes, just even impressions that the awl can slide through.
That does look pretty nice. Both look the same.
I get a tiny bit of blowout sometimes when I use the iron to mark the holes and than follow through with the awl. When I punch all the way through its usually not much of a issue.
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Im not sure if hermes uses stiffeners (probably not plastic at least) so it could be just two pieces of leather stitched together for more stiffness. So maybe thats how it holds shape in bags?
I have seen barenia used in hermes goods and its stiff and holds shape like vegtan since its combination tan of veg and chrome plus aniline dyed.
I may have to look at french goat skin for a stiffer leather. First choice was kangaroo but the importing tax into canada is too much.
I was gonna say maybe it is 2 pieces stitched together in most cases. And maybe they do that for the wallets as well? Or at least a folded seam to help stiffen the edges. Problem is Im starting to make orders to sell and if pieces often have to be doubled up it is going to cost me way too much in material to make any decent profit after all the labor and everything else
I don't have french goat but I just received a order of sokoto goat and I love working with it so far. It is a bit stiffer than the box calf and holds its shape pretty well. Even that though I can't Imagine using for the shell of a wallet. I made a simple card holder with it today and used a piece of thicker chromexcel for the back so it would be sturdy. I will post a picture of the goat when I have a minute..
If anyone has tips on using these types of french calf leathers and how to go about making them sturdy enough for most projects I would love to hear any advice.
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Hey,
I meant compare the main picture to the second picture. You can see both sides (front and back/inside) of the same stitch line and they look like they are going opposite directions. :dunno:I
Its possible thats what they do. I just imagine that if you punch ////// and than \\\\\\ you're creating a round hole in the center where they meet.
I dunno. haha. too many possibilities!
Also we need pics in here!
I want to see the results everyone is getting. Its not that I don't think it works but if the results are pretty amazing I may convert to punching both sides!
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Box calf is the toughest type of leather to stitch on according to an article about hermes. Is the leather super soft and formless like regular fabric? or a has a bit of shape like horween pull up or stiff chrome leather?
Im receiving a sample from http://charleshardtke.com and hopefully it will work out a bit nicer, maybe its worth checking out.
Could you post a few pics of how it folds and the stitches on it I'm really interested.
I will post pictures after I sew on it etc for you to see.
It feels very similar to some samples of kidskin I have from Springfield leather but a lot nicer of course. But the way it bends and the thickness.
It is stiff enough that I can see it working for interiors of wallets but Im not sure how people get it to hold up on the outside..maybe it does? I saw a picture of a bag someone made out of the exact same leather on this forum that looked very nice but by feeling it so far I have no clue how it holds that shape. Hermes uses it on all kinds that it doesn't seem like it would work with
Another thing is when you cut it the exposed edges are not dyed through which seems a bit odd. When you look towards the middle its just white..kinda hard to explain. It also does not burnish at all with traditional methods I have tried. I can get Horween chrome tanned leathers on the other hand to burnish pretty well.
The lady also sent me baby calf and Rusticalf which has a very cool texture. The baby calf feels very similar to the box except it comes in more colors and the skins are much smaller. The rusticalf looks the nicest in my opinion and feels amazing but it is Super soft so unless I decide to make slouchy style tote bags or something similar I can't imagine I would have any use for it.
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Did you ever sell this? What's the thread color?
sorry this is sold. never updated the thread.
thanks
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Hey Mr. treat,
What you describe above is how I settled on doing mine; it simply seems to work best for me. Check out this Hermes wallet: http://www.luxuryexchange.com/shop/hermes/authentic-hermes-epsom-wallet-new/prod_3061.html
Look at the direction of the slant on the inside bottom left. Now compare to the closed front bottom row (the same row other side). To me it seems they are in opposite directions (the xxxxx as you mentioned). If I'm wrong and the opposite is true, I think this still answers your question lol
Best
Joe
Im looking at the main picture and I see the slants going in opposite directions but we don't know what side they went through since that is a different piece of leather. Maybe Im looking at the wrong part
But they do sell reverse pricking irons with teeth going the opposite way. Which could be what you are describing. You can do different parts of whatever project with the 2 different irons to create a different look with the stitching http://www.fineleatherworking.com/leather-tools/portmanteau-pricking-irons
If your stitching looks good with how you are doing it than I would keep at it but I think if they were to punch both sides they would use a standard pricing iron and than a reverse so that the holes lined up perfectly.
Honestly there are so many different techniques and ways of stitching leather goods that it seems almost endless but Im always trying to improve so I find this conversation very interesting and look forward to experimenting with different methods.
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Was the leather you order french calf? Id love to see the finished product with french leather.
3/4 may be too thin and it looks like that bag was made of 4/5 or 5/6.
The shape of the pattern would look like a cross, although not symmetrical
If you start from a small toiletry bag (pretty simple) you would get a better understanding when you get to something at a larger scale.
Also making the bag from fabric will also ensure that the bag will come out nicely.
The leather order that I got in was from Maverick not french calf.
A little off topic but yesterday I received samples of Box calf, baby calf, and another type of leather from a French tannery that I was interested in ordering. The leather was very nice but also very soft. Im a little hesitant now because it seems like it would be very hard to sew cleanly and work with. Im gonna sew the samples they sent me to get a better idea and I will let you know how it turns out if interested.
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I hit it with the same iron and match it up, if done correctly the you won't be able to recognize which side was stitched from the front or back.
I could be wrong but I believe that he didn't cast the thread/ throw the loop since he went went forward instead of backwards so the threads aren't tangled together. I wonder if hermes does cast the thread, but most items I seen look like they don't have a cast.
To me it looks like he is looping the left side over the right. I think there are other clips in the movie where you see them doing it as well.
I tried briefly hitting a sample piece of leather on both sides and the results were pretty good but its strange because by doing that with the same iron you are putting 2 different angles into the leather /////// \\\\\\\\\\ to create a xxxxxx.
After I read that you do that I tried something different altogether. I made the usual marks with the pricking iron on one side but instead of stabbing the awl through the front I did it on the reverse side which kept the slants going in one direction but made clean holes on both sides. The results were similar to pricking both sides but I kept the single direction of the slant.
The back of the leather when I use the traditional method comes out decent but the act of punching through and using a awl pushes the back side out a tiny bit not allowing the stitching to lay perfectly flat or even.
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If you're going to use thick leather then it'll be best to have the seams face out and make it a feature, not in. Turning thick leather won't give you a great seam when it's bagged.
But it's as Kustom described and it's that easy.
thanks. that makes sense.
The al stohlman books usually demonstrate the use of a french edger before joining the seams. Im assuming I can maybe just skive the edges since I don't have a french edging tool at the moment.
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My technique is nearly identical to the first video (I learned from an ex-Hermes employee). It is not casted. And yes, it leaves somewhat flatter stitches on the back.
As I understand it, some years ago Hermes switched to pricking bags on both sides to ensure angled stitching on the backside as well as the front.
Yeah thats interesting.
I have been going between not casting and casting the stitch but haven't yet tried pricking items on both sides. Do you need a inverse pricking iron for the back? Seems like the holes would get real big if punching both sides but Im gonna give it a shot on some scrap leather.
I think they cast the stitch sometimes on certain items and other times they don't. I wish I knew what determined if they did it or not to get a sense of the difference. You can see here at 50seconds in they are casting the stitch. Awesome movie btw
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I'm with Dwight. If that is the thickness you have, use it because, it would be a nice carry belt. Many folks will pay more to have one made that way so, your good to go. With that being said, yes a different and thinner can also be purchased and used to arrive at a other desired thickness.
Yes, do stitch the length of the belt you receive a look of quality, texture, less stretching and will also aid in the adhesion of the two pieces. I made a 58" ladies belt for a customer the other day. It was 1" wide comprised of a top layer of 6-7oz and an inner of 2oz pig. All four elements assisted one another to make a strong belt; the four elements were the top and bottom layers, stitching and the glue. One word of caution, if you stitch across the narrow direction, which is perfectly fine to do, Don't use small close together stitches. If very many are used closely together it can cause a perforation action in the leather causing a premature failure of a stitched area. (Especially if under extreme pressure like any belt on me would be!! Lol.) Think one of those tearout cards in a magazine. If your stitching a buckle on use a fewer that your side stitch. Like hope I made that understandable.
Bro. Timothy
thanks Im gonna line the whole belt most likely with 2 pieces of that same leather. So it will end up around 10-12oz.
I understand that you would skive the belt keeper end before you fold it over to sew which makes sense. But in this case would I skive the 2 pieces separately before I glue and stitch them together? otherwise I would end up with a raw edge showing on the inside of the belt.
Hermes Togo
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This could be a possibility. I think A and A crack and sons may carry it but they also charge a lot to ship to the US. Not sure on the exact rates though.
Also if you are familiar with Chester Mox he makes wallets and such and uses a lot of shrunken calf. You could ask him where he gets it from and he may tell you.
What other leathers are you guys using that you are able to get your hands on? Curious what other people like and if they have any good contacts for the materials. I can get Annonay french calf from a lady in the US shipped for only a few dollars but the price per SF is very high.
btw just went onto A&A crack site. This Weinheimer London Calf looks pretty amazing as well. Wish we had a store like this in the US