Traveller

I took the laces out (dang they were in there tight!) but of course I can't see right away whether that's made a difference because the hair has to grow back first. I had a really good ride after removing the laces but I've been having lots of good rides lately so can't be entirely sure that I've solved the problem. I'm happy to take the cotton pad out but am not entirely convinced it's the problem since I wore hair away on that part of Traveller's back before under a previous saddle and a 100% wool felt pad. I know cotton can be a problem in athletic situations since it gets wet, stays wet and rubs, but I don't sweat the horse much even though we work reasonably hard. When the weather warms up he'll start sweating again but he's a pretty mellow horse and is in good shape so I can arena ride him mostly at the trot with some good stretches of canter for the better part of an hour and he doesn't even sweat under his cinch this time of year (the cinch is sheepskin-lined and he always sweats there in the summer). The main reason the cotton pad's there is so is that the hair didn't rub off like it did the last time I used a wool felt pad. Plus it's easy to keep clean so that I never have to put a dirt-encrusted pad on my horse's back. As for it being a smaller size, I agree, David, that it's not ideal but the rubbed hair is in a bigger area than just where it meets the edge of the felt so I'm not sure that's the source of my woes. It's easy to remove the cotton pad (and I'll do that) but I think the problem is mostly to do with saddle fit, since I don't remember noticing rubbed hair until after I got physio done on the horse and he improved his way of going. Before physio, he was often inverted and tough to get round but had no rub marks, and after physio he started rounding up easily and is now round more often than not but has rub marks. I've had the saddle for about six months but the change in his body shape has changed the way the saddle fits. Pah, says I. I haven't replaced the wool felt/gel combo pad I'm riding in but will do that soon. You have all convinced me that 100% wool is the way to go. Joanne

He doesn't get much of a winter coat, Denise, and the hair looks broken off, not flat, so I might notice it on a summer coat, too. He doesn't seem to object to the saddle but it can't be great for him. I'm going to take the laces out of the back skirts today (I'm assuming that will be a straight forward sort of thing to do). Thanks, Doug, for your thoughts, too!

Thanks for your input, Bondo Bob! Finding a saddle to fit my stocky horse has been a bit of a trial. I don't think he's such an odd shape but production saddles always seem to have something about them that isn't quite right on him, and it's mostly the shoulder that I run into problems with, though he's worn hair away towards the back of the saddle before under both a handmade western saddle (not custom to him) and an English saddle (the English saddle tipped forward on him so didn't sit properly on his back; the handmade saddle rubbed him for reasons I never quite figured out). This saddle is the first I've had on him that he doesn't object to and which sits flat on his back. I'm not tipping forward in the saddle, as has happened before, or backwards, so I think that as far as a production saddle goes it could be as good as it gets, though of course I'm always willing to stand corrected. I'll pull the laces out of the back and see how it goes. If the hair grows back, then I've figured it out. If not, well, then it's back to the drawing board. I'm also going to get a wool pad for him. I already have a wool felt pad that digs into his side a little where it's cut away for the fenders so that won't do. Thanks, everyone, for helping me out. You all are a great resource and I appreciate all the advice.

Do you have a preference for wool felt over a wool Navajo? Or will any kind of wool do?

Tex and TwinOaks, the broken hair is most certainly due to friction, I assume from the saddle moving back and forth across his loins. It's happened twice before -- once under the handmade saddle I originally had him in (not custom to him, and he grew out of it), and again under an English saddle (Passier) I used last winter that wasn't a great fit (it had to be widened to fit his shoulders and that seemed to have thrown everything off). The first time it happened I was riding in a 100% wool felt pad without a cotton liner. I thought that maybe the relatively rough wool was part of the problem, which is why I'd gone with a liner this time. And thanks for the BC history lesson, Hennessy! Knowing how much work and attention to detail that goes into custom saddles, I'm not surprised that it's hard to make relatively inexpensive production saddles of good quality. I'd originally looked for an older saddle for my horse but all the ones I tried were too tight in the shoulder for him. His sire was a halter-bred quarter horse and he passed on his bulk. I'll get some help removing the laces to make sure it's done right and Greg, I don't throw all that well but I'm sure I could send that pad at least far enough away from my horse that it's safe! I still have the 100% wool felt pad I used under the first saddle and might use that again, but it's cut away a little where the fenders lie and the last time I used it, there was an indent on my horse's side after I pulled the saddle off. The pad was made by a local saddle repair guy who ropes so he must know what he's doing but pressure points from the end of the pad don't seem like a great thing. Of course, once I get a different saddle, the pressure could go away. As for the thickness of an ideal pad, I'm thinking I'd rather not put something too thin under that saddle since I don't trust the tree 100%. What do you all think? Thanks so much for all your feedback, folks!

Recent problems with hair wearing off my gelding's back have got me thinking about saddle pads (amongst other things!). Which kinds of pads do you prefer? I see some fairly convincing ads by SMX AirRide but have also heard some convincing arguments for plain old wool felt from guys who've spent many hours in the saddle. I'm currently riding with an Impact Gel pad under my saddle but the SMX ads tell me it's not as good as their pads. Plus as I mentioned, the hair is wearing off my gelding's back (which, of course, may or may not be related to the pad). Do you have a pad you prefer to use all of the time? Or do you use different pads for different horses? Joanne

I just looked through your reply again, Bruce, and I want to say that the hairs look like they've been broken off. I don't know if that differs from thinning but it's all very equal -- the hairs are either broken off or they're perfectly normal. Does that indicate pressure or movement to you? As for not being perceptively sore, trust me this is not a horse who suffers in silence... he's a good, solid horse but he's an Appaloosa who is as sure of his opinion as any Appy who came before him, so I'm pretty sure that if he were sore, I'd hear about it. Mind you, horses have made liars out of me on more than one occasion, so I'm quite willing to stand corrected!

Bruce, the hair is worn equally over both sides as well as the middle. I won't be able to get photos until after Christmas (we're away for a few days over the holidays) and it's hard to see the shortened hairs in a photo but I'll gladly give it a shot. There's no swirling and there are no dry spots, though he hasn't sweated much since the weather got cold. I ride him reasonably hard in an indoor ring but since he's a pretty laid back horse in good condition, it's hard to get a sweat on him (though I'm sure one of you cowboys could do it, no problem!). Back when it was hot and he sweated under the saddle there were still no dry spots, and the saddle pad was evenly marked. I'm with you, though, on things not quite adding up. Like you, I'd have thought a hollow horse would have run more into the back of a saddle than a round horse would, but this problem has only just recently started to show up under this saddle, and only since he's been moving out better. I'll try removing the lacing and see how that goes. The trouble with worn-off hair is that it takes a while before you can see if what you've done has made a difference. Anyone know a quick way to grow hair? ;-) Thanks, Bruce -- all replies are gratefully received!

I have yet to see a saddle of yours that doesn't look perfectly balanced, Steve. I'm a big fan of relatively plain saddles but even when you post ones with a lot going on, they still feel nice and calm. Great work!

I'm taking the "remove laces" advice to heart and will have them out before my next ride! I'm pretty sure that's something I could do myself, even though I'm not even a saddle maker-wannabe (though I do suffer from serious saddle maker envy...). As for the thin pad under the thick pad, Mike, my logic for it is two-fold: first, it's easier to clean than the thick pad so I don't have a dirt-encrusted thing on my horse's back, but second (and perhaps more important) is so that the wool felt doesn't rub and remove hair. Perhaps after I remove the laces, though, I won't need it to prevent rubbing, and I'm a firm believer in less being more, so the thin cotton pad could quite easily go. If removing laces doesn't work, then I'll try a new pad before I try a new saddle. I've got my heart set on a custom saddle but need something in the interim and am really hoping that this saddle will bridge the gap. New pads are way easier to find and cheaper to try out than new saddles.... Thanks also, everyone, for the compliments on my horse! He's got a very good mind and seems to really enjoy working cattle, as we've been doing lately, and I hope to have him for many, many years to come.

Happy holidays to all of you! We're all turkey fans... lots of cranberry sauce, gravy, wine, scotch... you know! Wishing you all the absolute best for the year to come Joanne

Thanks for the compliment, Becca! Yeah, he's a pretty terrific horse, both inside and out. And thanks also for your input on the Billy Cook. Aside from rubbing hair off his back, it seems to be working fairly well. He actually goes better in it than he did in a custom saddle that a really wonderful saddle maker made (though like the first handmade saddle that he grew out of, it wasn't made specifically for him; this particular saddle was designed by a local trainer in conjunction with the saddle maker, built on a standard, hand made tree, and then you ordered it through the trainer). It didn't wear the hair off him at all, possibly because it didn't have a chance to -- it made him buck in the canter as it interfered somehow at the back end. I loved the saddle but it had to go! I'm really not that good at sitting a bucking horse, particularly once it's got some speed up.... I haven't heard of anyone else having that kind of problem with the saddle and it's a pretty small horse community around here, so I'm assuming it was a flukey fit on my guy, since I know the saddle maker always does excellent work. Plus I find the Billy Cook easy to sit. I like sitting straight up with my heels under me rather than back on my pockets with my legs forward, and it makes that easy for me. It doesn't have anywhere near the quality of the two handmade saddles I had on him before but I'm hoping I can make it work until I can get a custom saddle. And even if I land a great contract today and order one tomorrow, that would still take some considerable time! I'll get the laces removed after Christmas and see if that makes a difference. But I'll hang onto them for aesthetic purposes so I can put them back on before I sell it!

Thanks for your replies, everyone! I seem to recall that the skirts were laced on the other saddle that rubbed him, and they are definitely laced on this one. Perhaps that's it. Anyway, I took some photos out at the barn today. If a different angle would help, I'm going out again tomorrow and could get more. Much appreciated, all! (sorry about the big size of the photos...)

Is this normal? I'm currently riding in a production saddle, a Billy Cook ranch saddle, that fits my horse in his big ol' shoulders but appears to be giving him grief towards the back end - the hairs underneath the back 4-5 inches of the saddle are wearing down. Traveller's got a big stride in all three gaits so there's a fair amount of movement in his back, and recently he's started rounding up more (thanks a good physiotherapist who discovered his body was all wonky - what a difference she made!). In fact, he moves really well under this saddle so I'm not sure that it's a fit issue, though of course it could be. I've had this saddle for about 6 months now and the hairs have only just started wearing down. Trav's also lost some fat (yes!) and is muscling up his back, thanks to regularly rounding up and an increased level of fitness, so that might account for the change. His back doesn't appear to be sore but I can see that the hairs are not what they used to be. And when he's standing tacked up but without a rider on him, the back of the saddle is an inch or so above his back instead of resting on it. This happened before with the handmade (though not custom to him) saddle I had when I first got him and which he eventually grew out of. He wasn't rounding up well at all then - he was pretty green - but we did a lot of long trail rides and his hair got pretty short back there. I currently ride with an Impact Gel pad with a thin cotton pad between the Impact Gel and his back (easier to keep things clean and doesn't add any bulk). Does this mean that the saddle doesn't fit? Or that I'm placing the saddle too far forward/back? When I saddle up, I place the pad forward up onto his neck, swing the saddle on to it and then slide it all down until his shoulders are just free of the bars. Could the pad be too thick? Something else? I'm waiting for the economy (or at the very least, my own personal economy!) to improve before ordering a custom saddle so am hoping this saddle fits well enough that I can stay in it for the next year or so, but if it doesn't fit, well, it doesn't fit.... I'm heading out to the barn later this morning and will take a few photos, in case that helps. Thanks! Joanne

First class!

I'm really, really hoping my horse's bucking days are done because neither swells nor bucking rolls do a whole lot to keep my sorry butt in the saddle (let's just say it's not that hard for a bucking horse to get me off his back and onto the ground... anyone make a saddle with a seat belt? ) so for me, the choice between swells and slick forks is more about riding style than stick-ability. I tend to do a fair amount of arena riding, especially in the winter, and I like how the slick forks let me get my hands nice and low so I can get that straight line from my horse's mouth to my elbow. I ride English-style in my western tack (I find it the easiest way to get my horse up and over his back) and I also do ranch sorting, both of which require contact with the horse's mouth, and swells just get in my way. I also plan to start doing some mountain riding so may adjust my opinion after sliding down some serious hills, but so far, at least on the tamer trails in my neighbourhood, I find slick forks have enough of a rise that I haven't slipped too far forward.

Actually, I'm curious about this, too. Are the trees for, say, barrel and reining saddles the same while the leather construction makes the two look -- and perform -- differently? I understand that the top of the saddle, like the cantle and swells, will vary, but what about the part that's actually in contact with the horse's back? Is it always the same regardless of application (within the same horse body type, of course)? Thanks!

They have that same beautiful balance and harmony that I see on all your saddles (and if I knew more about saddle making instead of just saddle appreciation, I'd be able to point out just why that's so, but there you have it!). Great work, once again.

I understand that neatsfoot oil can darken a saddle (which you may or may not want). Would olive oil not do that so much? I know an English horseman whose family for generations back would dunk their harness equipment in a vat of olive oil. He even drops entire saddles (English ones, of course) in the stuff. I tried that with a girth but it made it kind of soft and, well, yucky. That was about a year ago and it's still a little too saturated. Perhaps it was too much of a good thing? And if I'm right in thinking that neatsfoot oil darkens leather, would you therefore want to use some other sort of conditioner when oiling an older (i.e. not straight from the saddlemaker's bench) saddle?

Does anyone use neatsfoot oil to condition the saddle after it's been in use? Or is it a one-time application that the saddle maker applies and then riders should turn to different conditioners down the road?

As someone who's in the position to buy rather than make a saddle, I quite like Greg's approach. I'd feel terrible if I'd ordered a custom saddle and then, a year later, the saddlemaker had put time, considerable skill and expensive materials into something changing economic circumstances meant I could no longer afford (I'm assuming your clients, Steve, are not paying because they can't and not just because they changed their mind, though who knows!). My downpayment should put me in the queue and my second payment should insure that the saddlemaker's not out cash for materials on a saddle it turns out I couldn't afford. I would also appreciate someone who would let me put my deposit towards another saddle at a later date, less some percentage (say 10%?) for not having met my original obligations. (Would you sell a custom saddle to a third party for slightly less, since it wasn't made custom for them? In that case, you might want to take the difference between the two amounts into account instead of some percentage.) And having a contract makes sense for both parties. It helps the saddlemaker, of course, but it also helps the buyer in the event that the saddlemaker doesn't come through, for good reasons or bad. I hope you work things out soon, Steve!

wow, Steve, another beautiful saddle incredibly well done! My amateur eye sees a well-balanced saddle with a sense of calm about it, like everything is where it's supposed to be. As it no doubt is. Your shop, on the other hand, looks totally chaotic! Thanks for sharing, Steve.

PS... that back cinch of mine is coming off today! The billets will still be there so the saddle's next owner can hook it back up, but you all have convinced me I don't really need it. Thanks!

I've got a breast collar I picked up at a yard sale a couple of years ago hanging in my closet keeping all clean and dry.... I haven't done any serious up-and-down back country riding since I got it, though that's what it was supposed to be for. I'll join the local back country group this spring, but it'll probably be all dried and cracked by then! Does anyone use a breast collar for anything other than back country riding? I assume that, if your horse has the kind of conformation that causes the saddle to slip, then you'd probably use it more often. But if your saddle generally stays in place during your regular riding day, do you ever find a use for one? Thanks!

So does that mean back cinches are something people think they need if they're roping, much in the way they think they can't have in-skirt rigging if they're going to rope? Troy has that beautiful new in-skirt rigged saddle of his posted in the Gallery right now that's going to a serious roper, and I'm thinking both Troy and his customer know what they're doing! And if you're not roping (and, as some have said, even if you are), it's just an extra piece of saddle that you don't need and which could get in the way, either when you bang your ankle against it or a branch on the trail or your horse's hind hoof gets caught in it. Am I right there? Thanks, everybody! That custom saddle of mine is taking shape in my mind at least... now if someone would please prop up the economy for me, I could get the darned thing out of my head and into the shop!