Shelly

FYI - I am not 'hunting' business as a contract carver - most people that want to contract don't want to pay what it's worth - I personally am not interested in doing contract work unless I can expect to be paid at least $25.00 per hour for my labor...my shop labor is set at $35.00 per hour, and I pay my help 20% of the repair work that I charge to customers, that he has done the labor on - since I pay piecework, he doesn't have to punch a clock and he feels he is paid pretty well - depends on how efficiently he works, and if he works at it a little at a time or...-it's up to him! The more efficiently he works, the more he makes... These additional pix are of a cutting saddle done earlier this spring, and a few examples of a cheek piece for a bridle, 5/8" wide, with rawhide knotwork and also shows the basket used, and how the stitching looks - the other pic is a Roohide bosal - twisted rawhide core, 16 plait on the body, two colors of interweave in the nose button and heel knot...and a backbraided hanger, of indian tan latigo...and a pic of a full hackamore set, with a Blind Bob rope, all braided up to match - made for a customer that shows pleasure horses... Take the gloves off, and let 'er rip - (I know the saddlemakers see plenty - I had posted a pic earlier of detail on a saddlehorn, and I'd inadvertently flipped the thing around to get the best 'look', and forgot to check it out myself - the wrap was 'wrapped backwards' in the pic, but not on the real thing! Keith asked the question that all the saddlemakers that noticed it were wanting to but didn't - so now I make a note to check this as well when I save edited pix!)

Well, I did think twice about posting that comment - especially after I'd read all the flack about 'constructive criticism'...I may just have to act like a turtle and keep my head and neck in my shell! The young man that works for me is a pool fanatic - we've looked at multitudes of these cases, as he is very interested in making them himself - personally, the 'meat and potatoes' of my business is custom saddles, and custom braided gear - emphasis on the saddles. I make custom chaps, chinks, belts, notebooks, etc (we also have a great reputation for getting saddle repairs in/out in less than a week, so have quite a few of the local horse trainers spoiled!) - to top all that off, I do most of my bookwork myself, as well as doing the billing, etc for my husband's training business - I have a reining horse I ride and show, as well as others coming up, and I raise and show Toy Fox Terriers - had a man in the shop yesterday that is a custom spur maker, and he thinks I should get into doing my own silver engraving - thinks I'd be really good at it - my question to him, and anyone else suggesting that I start up something additional, is 'When do I have time to fit that in?? I would rather try to keep improving in the areas that I work in now - so, to that end, I try to apply myself. Personally, I don't think that when I post pix, these are of my 'best' work, as I hope that will always be in the next job I do, in order to be striving to do a better job than the last time. The past pix are examples of work I did that I liked the end result on, even tho I can look at each piece and find things I'd do a little different next time. I also personally use what I make - as does my husband - and I don't think anyone here can be as critical as he is! My point in the comments were to first give a genuine compliment - If I didn't think the fit, finish, detail, stitching, etc, of the case were noteworthy, I probably wouldn't have posted any comment at all. From a distance, I don't think anyone can tell much - pix that show good detail help - and I will post a couple here for you and everyone else to see of some of the most recent carving work I've done...is it 'the best'?? I personally don't think so - and I also think that once you start to believe that what you do is better than anyone else, and you don't have anything more to learn, then you are lost forever. I try to learn something every day - even if it's something I tell myself 'sure don't ever want to do THAT!' I see it in my work, training horses, raising/showing dogs, etc. Sometimes a small change in your approach to something will make all the difference in the world in the end... Most 'ordinary' folk, be it the general public, 'horse' people, 'dog' people, etc, can't 'see' the differences in the work that would take a piece from 'good', to 'great', to 'art'...I don't especially like wines (other than the cheap variety you drink from the bottle in a bag - think 'Boones Farm') - but I sure can appreciate the people I know that understand it and can explain what makes great wine! I also know that what they like, I don't necessarily have a taste or developed a palate for, and it's the same in this business. Some are happy with a 'generic' cue case from Wal-mart, and would never pony up the dollars for a case such as yours, ever - same as the horses - and gear we use - some would spend $35,000+ for the show horse, and the gear would be in the same realm - and within this group, we have those people that 'know' what makes a horse worth that, and the gear worth that, and you have these others that just want to tell people that's what I spent, and haven't got a clue - thinking that the price they paid must make it's value so - (not true). I know people that have trained and learned from the same 'master saddler' - and years later, the work between these students of said master saddler are as different as night/day, yet they learned the same stuff - and so it goes. I have many 'inspiring' teachers - Keith Seidel taught me how to properly rub edges on my strapwork in the early '80s, when he was just getting started out on his own (I really don't know how many years he worked for various shops before I first met him) - he moved from Scottsdale to CA, now in Cody - and I've followed his progress and enjoyed seeing his success - my husband and I had two saddles from him back then as well. When I went to Sheridan about 8 years or so ago, I went to Cody and visited his shop - and I loved being able to see how his shop was laid out, the whys, etc, and the store itself is an education as well. A big education was also had in Don King's museum - lots of learning can be done there! (Don has some of my braiding in there - and I have a really nice set of tools he made for me!) Anyway, I will end this now with a tip of the hat to all who make an actual living doing what we do - it's people like Keith Seidel that make me believe we can be successful at this work, and make a good living doing it, if we continue to work at getting better at what we do - so much has to do with your mind-set and attitude! I did want to also say that the pic of the case with the stingray was beautiful - even if you had to break some needles to produce it! I've also been told to be careful what you do and put out there - if you don't necessarily want to do lots of it, but it looks cool, better make sure you charge enough to make it worthwhile - as it will most likely be asked for a lot! Now that I read in these posts that Ron Ross did the tooling - I think he does do a nice job - but will stand by my first comments - together, and overall, this case is heads/tails over much of what I and my assistant (the pool nut that has plays at least 3 times a week in leagues, etc - he makes some very nice cue stick holders that you put on the edge of the table to keep the stick from rolling off on the floor, and these are customized for the customers - I've even done a floral layout for him on one - he tooled and finished it). If you would be interested in the few, and I do emphasize 'few' small adjustments I think Mr. Ross could do to improve on what he's doing, I would be happy to say so - if not, no worries! (and, just so you all know - I HATE doing Oak Leaves - and I don't particularly like even this layout, as they are very hard to get a pretty 'flow' with...etc)

I don't think a name for the carver was offered...I stand by my first comment about the case/carving being nice work - overall, it is, and I've sure seen some that could be lots better...the up close pics of the carving shows me that he could yet improve on a great start...I don't claim to be 'the worlds best', far from it, but I've seen lots of it (and do lots of it) - and I do have my favorites amongst what I think I would call the 'elites' in the carving area...I also can't be presumptious to assume they are the 'only' people out there that are capable of producing really high quality work! I think it's an excellent cue bag, and I'm sure it's worth every penny...I think the carver would benefit from a couple of lines of constructive criticism, and you would see a huge difference in the looks of the carving when you get it 'up close and personal' when it's all come together in a bag as fine as this one...if you can do this level of workmanship in fit, finish, detail, sewing, etc, in the case-work, in my humble opinion, the carving should also reflect the same level - this carver looks to me to have lots of potential to be able to step from good to great....! I will not make any uninvited suggestions on here, tho...I can appreciate seeing nice work!

I wondered if you were from overseas - in that case, please note that Gail has a different amount that she charges for Foreign sales...that would be the prices ending in 'F' - might be less expense for you to purchase the three books from MacPherson and the single book about Romals from her site...if the money is a big issue...

I don't really know why they have them priced this way - also, this isn't the complete set...you can go directly to Gail's site - www.hought.com...it's an extensive website, with plenty of pix of her work, and the books also sell there...I would advise that you purchase the four books that are in color - starting with the Revised edition of the Basics, thru the 'Romal Reins 1' - there is supposed to be a second book covering romal reins, but I wouldn't know when that will be published. The reason I suggest not going with the complete set of 5 is that the first book was done in B/W - the revised basic edition is in color, all the same material, but just a better book than the very first one. If you just want the whole set, regardless, she has a price for the complete set in 5 and the complete set in 4...even on her site, the price breakdown per book isn't as cheap as on the MacPherson site...exception is they don't have the book on Romals... She also has supplies, sources for tools, materials, etc...will even sell you a bosal core if you don't want to have to make one up for yourself...personally, I think she gives beginners, etc, a wealth of information on her site, thru instructions, kits, quality materials, proper tools, etc...

Now that is really nice work! Great case work, and probably some of the nicest floral carving I've seen on any of these custom cases...! Have you considered using some of that Stingray in your inlays?? (I'd imagine you already have done it, or considered it...)

Thanks for the compliments - it's a work in progress...I've also cut up plenty of stuff in the past, and still do today... As for Gail's books, I just recommend all of them...but, if you have to pick and choose, then get the more advanced books first, and the others later - I don't actually use them myself, but I like to keep a library of the things I find relevant to my work, then I can show anyone that is interested in finding out how to get started what I think would be helpful to them - if they can look thru these, it helps them to decide which to order for themselves first.... Shelly

Looks good - however you finally were able to get it done! Looks like you moved some of the foundation strands and made room for the colored ones...this knot is basically no different than a heel knot on a bosal - a six bight rather than 8 or more, but the principles of adding bights when building a foundation knot and then filling in for gaps is the same - I will usually fill in with filler colors, such as you've done here, to fill in final areas...A quick look at the heel knots on these two pix - you will be able to see the additions of the different IW's - the red roo is only two rows, and the black is three, as well as an additional darker rawhide IW...in your case, you have two less bights than these knots in the pix, and an additional turn around the knot when you laid the foundation. On these heel knots, there is only one cross on the back (at the top), and one on the front, (at the bottom, crossing over the standing end), to start. Referring back to a book is the main reason I asked if you might have Hought's books - she is a good teacher, and her books make great reference material should you ever get 'stuck' like this...and, they are easier to follow than any of the others out there...I taught myself out of Grant's Encyclopedia, and I never refer anyone to that book unless they just want the material in their library - there are mistakes in it! Gail has been braiding longer than I have, and had the added benefit of being able to have early guidance from Ortega - and he wasn't very open to teaching anyone anything! I'll try to get a knot done such as yours soon - I need to braid up a set of romal reins for my show horse - planning a 12 plait rein with a 16 plait romal, in roo, and the knots in rawhide with contrasting colors in roo...will do a floral popper as well...I have a lot of core material that I acquired from a close personal friend of Luis Ortega (he got a box of stuff from Rose after Luis passed away), all of it was cut and labeled by Rose, I assume, as to which pieces would be best for reins, romals, etc...will use some of that for my project...

Alan may have to field this one - I'm trying to get a couple saddles finished, so won't have time to do an example until later in the week...if you're patient, I can braid the knot for you, and use different colors to show you in pix...would do it similar to what you are trying to get done...no time available for now...both saddles are floral, and got to go!

If this is the third IW, it should be building up to an O/U three as you build and split pairs - I think if you back that string out, all the way to the beginning, start over with the entire string colored, to see it better, and go up following the string on it's left, and down following the string on it's right - you will find that it will work better - you will go under 4 at the bottom, to go up, but do be sure that you are coming out at that juncture next to the string you are following up (working end to it's right, both in the same spot, following this string up with it on the left of the working string - as you will split that pair when you come down to it following the string on the working end's right on the way down...make sense??)

This looks like a six bight knot, but can't be totally sure by the pix - I can see that you aren't going all the way to the bottom on the IW, and that's fine, as it should work the same, like you are doing it - the problem I am seeing is that when you are going up from the base, you are fine, following the left strand to the top, then under the cross, and splitting any pair there, which would have you basically going under 3...then, you have the mistake - you are coming down toward the base of the knot you are following the left string again - going down toward the base you should be following the path of the string to the right of your working end, and splitting any pairs that you've made on the previous passes going up - you will be splitting pairs you are making as you go down when you are going up again, and so on, around until you work your way back to the beginning of the IW...I might suggest a different colored string here, as it makes it easier to see when you are trying to 'see' the pattern...looks like it will make a nice button when it's done!

I would suggest you post a few pix of the knot, and where you are running into a problem... if the foundation and first pass (O/U two) is correct, you should be following the string on the left when going up, and the string to the working end's right when going down, and once the pattern develops, you will notice that it will build from an o/u two pattern to a o/u 3, and so on, each time you finish an additional IW. Also notice as you increase this knot from o/u 2, that you will be building up from the base, meaning that it will give the impression that the base strings stack each progressive IW on the last from the bottom up, but at the top, the IW always goes all the way to the top foundation strands, going under a cross and splitting a pair, (essentially, under 3). When you start the third IW, I will usually start it in a different place from the standing end, so that I don't end up with a bulge in that spot from additional strands starting/ending in the same place. You can go under 4 to start, at the base of the knot, being sure that it will be passing at the base of the last row. still following the left string up, and the right string to the bottom after making the turn at the top... Pix really help me to see where a problem is, I'm a pretty 'visual' learner myself, so easiest for me to teach that way, too...do you have any of Gail Hought's books?? Her books are some of the 'must have' books that I refer anyone that asks me where they can get started learning the art of braiding...easier to follow her than Bruce Grant's Encyclopedia, and I taught myself how to braid in the mid '70's from his books...cutting my own roo and rawhide happened pretty quick as well, as the lace available in the Tandy stores left a lot to be desired in the end result for me...same as strapwork - started making my own headstalls when I couldn't find 'off the rack' headstalls made well enough to suit me...

A sizing belt is a great idea - I'm going to make one for the shop here - only thing I'll do differently is that I will taper the buckle end, and slot it, then it should accomodate their own buckle as well. I have a trophy buckle of my own that can be used in case they happen to not be wearing one of that style, in case that's what the belt is going to have on it. Can get into a sizing problem if the buckle you use on the belt is not the same as what they will put on it...not everyone I deal with will be using a tongue style buckle...but I have to take that into consideration and be sure to ask...this should make it pretty easy to get every belt as close to a perfect fit as possible...

I have both a Landis 3 and a Campbell in my shop - I have the Landis set up for saddle work and the Campbell set up for finer work, like belts, headstalls, strapwork, etc. I also have an Adler for repair work - all have their place in my shop, but I would not trade the quality of the stitching with the Landis 3 or Campbell machines for any other machine on the market! They are virtually identical, but the Landis 3 has a larger throat area that allows for easier handling of skirts, etc - if you are wanting a machine that will work for everything, try the Campbell - they can be purchased thru Connie Naegle, but might be able to find one privately for less...My Campbell was being used by a custom saddlemaker, and when I bought it, I changed it up to accomodate my strapgoods, since I already owned the Landis...just my two cents worth...!

Sorry, I stand corrected - I would like to say that the flat plate is my personal 'second choice' - this is so much better than a full double or dropped rigged saddle, in my opinion! Have made some of these for the ranchers around - have you ever made any 'seat riggings'?? They are an interesting saddle - I think I saw something on the threads about them before it all crashed...I've only seen a few, and again, from talking to the cowboy that had a few of them, they are very popular in his area of the country - and I've just not seen them too far outside of that...he did admit that they could pinch at the slot on the seat, but overall, he liked them fine...I'd asked him if he'd ever tried a flat plate, but he hadn't...attached is a pic of his saddle - note the seat jockeys are lined with a heavy liner, as a flat plate would be done, but I could see where this type of rigging would reduce the bulk under your leg by 1 thickness, anyway...also, it may be you would have a very smooth motion with fender swing, but he also mentioned that the slot would have to be longer to accomodate being able to go farther forward, as he felt it did prevent that some...might be able to leave it this way, (a question would be how much you give up in stout/integrity of the saddle by lengthening the slot - would it be a benefit or a worry),and change up the fender/stirrup leather design to get that if desired...my concern on something like this is the repair costs involved on down the road, should this ever fail in a 'big' way...!

Greg, You can be sure that my husband has sweated thru a few - even now, with the day to day training, he tries to rotate saddles, as some of these studs he's training/showing take extra riding/time - but with the heat/humidity of summer, it's pretty much inevitable, regardless. He rotates thruout the day - he really appreciates well made gear, and tries to take care of it. Yes, I agree that if an inskirt were sweated thru every day, not able to dry out, it may cause some stretch, but I don't think I've ever seen it personally - maybe Keith has, or someone else here on this thread - taking into account the quality of the saddle to start with - it makes me wonder if any here has seen a well made inskirt that had failed (stretched badly or rigging plates/dees pulled out)... Joanne, I don't have a real number for you, other than it may be 5 lbs or less - once I have these rigged out, and ready to ship, not a huge difference, really - I can tell you that I can cover all of them for shipping weight by plugging in 42 lbs for total weight on the online ship forms - I've never had any additional charges to my account because of being over that, and I line the box with scrap woolskin, bubble wrap over the horn, put it in upside down, and may have a breastcollar and or headstall, possibly some reins, with it...the old colt saddle mentioned above - Assn. tree, has a nightlatch around the swell, a heavy, one piece, shaped breastcollar, a 4" flank, etc - I know without a doubt that it will be one of the heavier saddles in his tack room - I've saddled a few over the years for him with it!! But, it does not bind him up when he rides, which he attributes to the inskirt... I also think that it depends on the area you are in, as to what you see more of for repairs - we have a lot of cutting horse ranches/training operations here, and the dropped rigs and full doubles, hard seats, have been pretty popular for most of the last 15 yrs - I'd expect to see more flatplates up North, and so on... In the mid-70's to mid-80's, lots of cutting saddles were full double, very flat groundseats, (as flat as could be made - caused some problems for some horses when that strainer wouldn't clear their withers) and a lot more padded seats than I do now. I've made a few new ones now with padded seats, and just took another order for that type of cutting saddle. These will have a moderate amount of lift to the strainer - so I think more 'middle of the road' now...new saddle orders are running about 50/50 for inskirt or dee rigged saddles...I don't care, really, what they ask for, as I know better than to question what these people like, or have gotten comfortable with, over the years - hey, if that's what works for them, I'm not going to say that my opinions count more than theirs! I am usually dealing with owners/trainers/ranchers that have been successful on their choice of whatever - if I am questioned about rigging choice, I'll voice my opinion. The important thing is that they know I don't 'only' make one style, and can accomodate them, whatever their taste is...I have turned down work over the years that wasn't worth doing, (repairs, mostly), and only once have I turned away business from someone in this industry that wanted me to build a saddle... I have really enjoyed this forum - I feel I've learned some things that I can find useful to me, as well as some that aren't - but always learning something from these ongoing threads!

I would also add - a dee rigged saddle is easiest and quickest to install - the inskirt, which I build the most of, is harder - needs the best leather, and, the way I do them, more leather is needed for these than the other...

I've been riding mostly inskirt saddles, for about 35 years - roped in them, reined, all-around, etc. I make anything the rider asks for - it's a personal decision...some are sold on inskirts, (they are the least bulk, and the lightest overall), while others insist on flat plates or some variety of dee ring setup. Most of these I put in are 7/8 dropped, and I have to know how they ride, and whether they want a twist on the fenders - I have to adjust my skirts and the neck on the fenders, as well as the fender length and stirrup leather length, to accomodate those that are short legged, but I always ask if they are the only one riding it or sharing, and what the other inseam length(s) may be. In all these years, repairing and building, listening to what other makers have to say as well as paying close attention to what I'm repairing and why that is, my conclusions are that the inskirt is the least bulky, and, if put in properly, meaning that the overlay and the front area of the skirt are both of the best part of the hide when laid out, you will have little stretch, and much security - looking at the drawing of the inskirt that Keith put on these threads about this subject, if you will take into consideration that most inskirts envelope the tree within the skirt, like a 'sandwich', and, if made properly - ie; as Keith mentions about making sure the skirt drops down X inches, taking into consideration the rider(s), then it stands to reason that it's going to be the easiest design for least bulk, and ease of movement. The scariest riggings that I get in this shop for repairs are various makers full double saddles...a few are consistently made from the heavier leather in the butt, and it makes me appreciate these guys alot - this shows me they are conscientious about how they built the saddle...regardless, so many are installed with only, at best, 4 screws in the rigging to hold it (compared to being 'enveloped' within the skirts) - the only way I will do a full double or drop rig is by fitting it 'full' over the bar pads, and it will be trimmed after it is screwed/nailed in, then, when the skirts go on for good, the rigs, front an rear, (these are fit completely around the bars as well - and I've seen a few that were 'joined' together across the top of the bars at the rear and sewn in), then I will sew them in, two needles, on each end of a 1/4 in sewing tape - I use a #5 stitch wheel, and will stitch every other mark, just as you stitch a horn, from the dee up as far as I can go. I think this is the only way to do these and have them be strong enough - instead of just the 4 screws holding your dees and latigos on the saddle, you are securing this whole riggin to the skirts, much as you would with an inskirt - you still have more bulk than an inskirt, and more weight. Another thing I do, (which adds more weight as well), is to install a connector (wear leather) over the rigging - it is nailed in at the base of the swell, the bottom edge is even with the bottom edge of the rigging, and the strap goes around the rear dee if it's a full double, or up to the tree behind the stirrup leather slot if it's a dropped rig, with a tab that secures it around the back of the front dee. I've had to explain to my clients that if they would like to keep the saddle in good repair, and not pay a bigger repair bill than needed, then they need to keep these connector straps checked - when they wear thru, it's time to replace them - a $35.00 fix. If I have to replace the front rigs because they let it go - it's a $175.00 fix! Because this style of rigging sits on top of the skirts, regardless of stitched in or not, they will be getting wear every time the fenders are brought forward over them at the back edge - when I get these in for repairs, usually they are only one 'fresh colt' away from a disaster! I've seen more dee rings that have worn thru at the back, then ripped almost completely out of the saddle, as well as having stretched and pulled down and forward, in these saddles than any inskirts - biggest thing with inskirts is to keep an eye on the wear of the rivets - I've had to replace rivets and/or restitch (stitch grooves that are deep are important to get the stitches below the level of the leather) - and it's usually a good number of years down the line for this! My husband has an old 'cowboy' rig, built on an Assn. tree, inskirt - this saddle is 26 years old - I've replaced stirrup leathers over the years, re-covered the rawhide binding on the 4 1/2" straight up cantle, and on the horn lip, and a few other sundry repairs - very little compared to other saddles that see the amount of day to day work this wood has! For all you cowboys out there, my husband would rather cowboy than train horses - he is 'old school' - rode the rough string on all the ranches he worked on in his younger days, just because it paid an extra 20.00 a month - he onlyworked for ranches that had a wagon and a real cowboy crew, that did everything horseback - such as the Matadors, the RO's, etc - up North, in Calif, TX, and in AZ - finally settled on AZ as his 'home territory' - he has albums full of pix that he took with a pocket size camera -starting ranch colts, pix of smooth mouthed 'snaffle-bit' horses, packing salt with a string of mules or horses, cows, steers, bulls tied to trees, loading them into half-top trailers on their sides, (skidding them in, basically, by running the rope forward to a trailer ball attached far enough forward on the trailer to pull them in with the horse)...also pix of some wild ones being necked to burros and turned loose - the burros come home to base camp for the sweet feed in a few days, and they bring the cow in with...lots of good stories of hunting feral stock in the mountains, roping, tying them down, tipping horns, branding, etc - some that were wild 10+ yr old steers, and a few of those where he roped an antelope, deer, bobcat, skunk, etc...the reason for my 'prattling', is to be able to give some idea of what one of his saddles would be subjected to day in and day out - he likes inskirt rigs the best, then his choice is a flat plate, if well made, then a dee ring rig saddle, and so on...he's ridden old centerfire ring rig saddles in his day as well - and he says the least bulk is always the inskirt, and he has had no problems roping and tying down any cow over the years that he needed to doctor in an inskirt saddle...in his tack room now the majority is inskirt saddles - he also has a flat plate rigged Wade, and a dee rigged saddle...as I said, it all comes down to what the rider/customer is used to, as well as what they are around alot of - on those AZ ranches, a cowboy had hired on once that came from up North - romal reins, silver bit, slick fork saddle, and a long rope - it didn't take about 2 weeks of working that rocky, brushy country, with everything that bites, stings, or sticks ya, and he had himself a rough out saddle, tied hard and fast, and bulldog (or 'Monkey-nosed') taps. Everything has a purpose and a reason for being that way - it's mostly necessity, and style is not necessarily a consideration over form to function - at least when horses have a 'real job' and are a tool, not a high bred, hot house commodity, as they are in today's show horses...my husband can certainly appreciate a long rope, the how and why of it's proper use, and the years it would take to make a bridle horse in the old traditions - snaffle-bit, hackamore, two-reining, and so on...but that's not very practical on the ranches he worked - you would scar up new saddles in a few days so bad they looked old, closed reins would get caught on thick brush - thus injuring the horse's mouth, etc, same brush could go thru the stirrups if not protected, and that flank cinch is there to help take the jerk of a heavy brute on the other end, and so on...and he's always rode a custom saddle! So, I am in complete agreement with Keith Seidel, Mr. Brewer, etc - inskirt is our 1st choice!

Bruce, That's the way I was leaning...so I ordered it this morning, from Micro-Mark, because they include an extra lens with it - also the lighting attachment, and the loupe - with the cost for shipping, the total came to $78.90. (In case anyone else reading about this is interested in exact numbers)

The Optivisor now has an addon light (Quasar Lighting System), for 22.50 - can add the binocular magnifier for another 35.10, each lens plate runs 24.35...www.all-spec.com sells Aven, Head Band Magnifier with Light, AV26415 - $41.58...has a 3 lens system and produces 4 magnifications. Bausch & Lomb Magna Visor Loupe comes with 3 lenses, no light, for 6", 8", and 12" distances, #81-42-00, didn't get the price in the printout...JSP Optical Super-Visor - $10.00, with 4 different mags ranging from 1.8X - 4.8X...Optical Supervisor II - Rosenthal - www.rjsintl.com - 4 separate lenses - from 4" to 20" and can be combined to 12 combinations, comes with a light - $18.00...then lastly, www.widgetsupply.com, SFB1 - (comes in different colors) - OptiSight - 3 lens plates, 1.75X at 14", 2X at 10", 2.5X at 8" - no light, and a simple headband, without the velcro on the back... I'm narrowing down to these - Optical SuperVisor II, the Aven (headband looks like it may be the most comfortable), and the OptiVisor, with the lighting and an optional attachment loupe. This one has LED lights (6), that are arranged around the entire lens...might take a look for me and see which would interest you most if you were looking for one for yourself, considering that you already use the Optivisor, and know how it feels, etc. You may be able to tell me more than I can tell about reading specs and various info on these three products...would certainly help me in my decision as to which to order...do I go with the $18.00 special, or the Optivisor, with all the add-ons, for $150+? The Aven then looks pretty decent at $41.58...

DITTO!!

I think it sucks - it sneaks up on you when you're sleeping...I didn't think I would have to have glasses either, and get to be one of those lucky ones that you see that go their entire lives, into their 90's, that have sharp vision and a sharp mind...unfortunately, I've suddenly realized that my mind seems to have taken a vacation somewhere, and didn't invite me along!! Hope it gets back soon....

My doctor said it does happen to a small extent - that your eyes will come to 'depend' on the help, but overall, not really much that you can do as the lenses in your eyes harden with age...I'm very much interested in what Kate mentioned about being able to 'replace' our old hard lenses with the 'softer' ones of our youth...wonder how long that will be?? I'm sure finding a workable solution is going to be the ticket for me, as it is for all of us in this boat. Once we find a tool that works well, I think we all get that feeling of 'why did I wait so long before trying this??'...

Thanks, Bruce! You feel my pain...,or, I feel yours?? I checked out the link, and will probably print out the front-runners in this deal, and compare apples to apples, that sort of thing...I lean toward a visor with a light, that will illuminate whatever I am looking at. And thanks for the tip on using when sewing - I was more focused on tooling/hand sewing, but you are right! I have lights on both my Landis 3 and my Campbell, and find these are ok for now, but this magnivisor or Optivisor may be great there as well!

Yep, I also noticed I couldn't see the blade well enough as well - especially for finish cuts...when I used the magnifier, I found I felt I was able to make some of the best I've done in awhile, and with a much steadier hand! Amazing what can happen when you can actually see it while you're doing it!! Looks like a Magnivisor is getting the most votes, so will probably end up with one of these...Thanks!!