JamesRiley

This is a great thread, if only because of the pictures. I've got some books on western gun leather and I like looking at them. But I'm one of those "once you've seen it" guys. I can't get enough of new and different twists on the same theme. This is great, and you folks do great work.

I think it has something to do with the leather. I've seen cartridges' that are more than a hundred years old in a cardboard box with no verdigris.

Insane!

When I saw .22 going for 20 cents a pop I like to throw up in my mouth. I didn't want to see what had happened to .45 Colt, ACP and 45-70. But I looked and I did throw up. I do have a stick bow with some arrows, so . . . maybe it's time to revisit archery. And you know, I've got a little money, but it's the principle of the damn thing. Oh well, I guess it's the market.

Yeah,. . . no. LOL! Eye, beholder, etc. I could actually live with it, cept'n the lock up in my 45-70. It was in two 100 round bandoliers for over 20 years. I managed to clean it all off but it wasn't fun. I just started reloading about a year ago and discovered that any thing more than brass in a die can dent your brass, too. I didn't know tolerances and such were so picky. I'm a larnin.

You, Dave Richardson, asked Dwight "You would never make one like what?" and we were off to the races.

I read everything on the board that came up with the word "verdigris." Had I not been so lazy, I would have created a "white paper", synthesizing it all for a single spot. But alas, I'm lazy. Suffice it to say, Northmount and chuck123wapati are correct. There are several different things you can try, different coatings, different leathers and whatnot, but in the end, it's not worth my fight to try/do it all. I'm lucky to live in a high, dry environment and things aren't all that bad. I'll either keep nickel in the stuff I display, or I'll "tend to and clean up" the rest on a periodic basis. I'm really just trying to keep gunk out of my guns and make sure the shell casings don't degrade beyond safe shooting/reloading. The real answer? Shoot all your ammo and keep buying more. Tip o the hat to Bill Gates and thems what can afford it. LOL!

Thinking out loud, fishing for insight: I searched the term "verdigris" on this web site and came up with an overwhelming number of hits. A serious researcher would read all of it. And maybe I should, and maybe I will. A "last word" stickie from an expert would be great, but I didn't see one. Regardless, that won't stop me from running my key board before I start reading. Sorry. I hate verdigris. But I love brass, especially tarnished brass. I think it looks better on saddles, tack, gun cartridges' and everything else. I like brass like I like dark brown leather. I don't seem to have a problem with it on horse tack, but I do with cartridge belts. I don't know why there's a difference. I've taken to using nickel plated shell cases but I don't like the look. It looks too B Western Hollywood to me. While some folks just keep their loops empty until they go out, I like to keep all my loops full, if only for wall-hangers. I thought I once read that vegetable tanned leather won't develop verdigris, but I don't know if that is true. Regardless, even if so, I usually dye my leather, neatsfoot oil, etc. and wonder if some additions won't create a problem while others do. I've heard some suggestions on gun sites for coating the cartridges with this or that. No thanks. I like the brass to patina. In the end, I'd like a type of leather tanning, and a type of coloration or antiquing and preservation that will not develop verdigris when my brass cartridges are left in the loops for years. In re-reading what I wrote, I probably should add that I really don't hate verdigris for what it looks like. I hate it because sticking gummed up rounds in your weapon is not a good thing for a number of reasons. Thanks for reading.

I printed it out in "portrait" and they seem to go together well, but I've saved them in my pc so when I do the real deal for transfer to heavier stock I will print out "landscape." I intend to make a rifle cartridge belt for each of my different caliber Winchesters and will use this technique. They'll be more for wall hangers but I like everything functional too. I've got some other projects (non-leather) that I have to get to, but I look forward to using this pattern. Thanks again.

Thanks, Dwight. I got it. Conceptually, I understand why a straight belt would fall, but I can't figure why a curved belt would stay up. But I've learned that somethings don't need to be explained. They just work. I figure once I make one, the "why" will settle in my brain. Again, thanks for taking the time to do this. Jim.

Dwight: While I don't yet suffer from the loss of butt, I can see it as a future consideration. Can you point to a thread or discussion (maybe with pictures) that details what it is you are saying and how it should be done? Thanks for any help you might provide.

Beautiful. I hope to get there some day.

It's difficult for me to use words to explain my meaning. Compare: All of the belts in the picture that I will attach to this this post do *not* have any dip at all. The bottom edge of each belt runs parallel to the top edge for the entire length of the belt. And there is no slot in the belts. The holster goes over the entire belt. This is the traditional way gun belts were used in the 19th Century. However, both of the belts in your pics in the original post have a dip in the belt below parallel. In other words, the bottom edge of the belt runs parallel to the top edge of the belt for most of the length, but there is a spot where the leather increases in width below the parallel line, and then returns back up to parallel. In that dip, on both belts, you find a slot through which the holster is connected to the belt. That is called buscadero, regardless of the angle of the slot, or lack of an angle. edited to add: my comments do not account for Dwight's detail on belt configuration for fitting around a buttless cowboy. I haven't reached that level of expertise in my work.

I don't pretend to be an expert on nomenclature, but it was my understanding that" buscadero" wasn't so much about angles as it was 1. the bottom edge of the belt has a dip, or extension below parallel, and 2. that extension had a slot in it from which the holster would hang. Whereas a non-buscadero would have the holster over the whole belt. So, as I understand it, yes, that first picture shows a buscadero no matter the angle of the slot. It was also my understanding the buscadero is a Hollywood invention that never really existed in the 19th Century. I stand by to be corrected.

Thank you all for the compliments. The benefits of a distant photo hides many of the not-so-professional mistakes I made. That why I didn't do close ups. Not yet! LOL! I'll save those for the "Critique my work" forum when I get a little braver. I've seen some close up work on this board that really shows the skills and expertise that comes with experience. I'm still learning to slow down and not be so end-oriented. I hope to improve when I slow down into enjoying the process. It is fun. I want/need to spend more time with that swivel knife and finding that casing sweet spot.

I'm not in the same league as you folks, as I'm just a beginner, but I've done some work I find tolorable. The belt with the .45 is not mine (factory) but I got bigger over the years and had it lengthened. I wanted the same deal for a .22 I just bought so I copied it with two rows of cartridge loops. I did another belt with a single row of loops. I also copied a factory holster (with the 1851 in it), only made it shorter for my Colt .45. And then I made one for my Uberti SAA 12 shot from a form I bought at Tandy. I like the laced front. I also made a knife sheath out of some roughout I had laying around (it has the knife in it). I don't like it much, because it's kind of flimsy, but I also made a heavier one and "stamped it" with the impression of the knife handle (a fossilized baculite I found on the Powder up in WY). I like it. Anyway, lots of hand stitching on those loops but they are tight and plenty. Thought I'd share. I'm a work in progress.

Thanks, folks. I will give those ideas a shot.

I miscalculated the number of holes I needed and pre-stabbed some needle holes in a piece of leather. Is there a magic trick for making those disappear, or at least become less obvious? I'll be dark staining the whole piece. They aren't really located where decorative stamping would go. Thanks for any tips.

Dwight may be on to something. Though my problems would apply to any stitching job, so I will be looking into large blunt tip egg-eye harness needles size 4 or 5 (per a board post in the stitching section here), a better awl, one of those palm protectors, and a stitching horse. But first, I'm going to whine here in case someone wants to shed some light or tell me what to buy when I head into town on Tuesday. I got 30 cartridge loops out of 40 done. However, I broke four or five needles and broke the thread about ten times. I'm using the fake sinew stuff and it's pretty thick and strong, but not tough enough. I think the interior of the needle eyes may not be very smooth or rounded and they're wearing the thread. Also, my holes were punched through but they are tight and "heal up". I have to use plyers to pull the needle through. The loops look good and they are tight, but damn it's a pain. End rant.

Thanks, Folks. The weaving looks a whole lot easier, and that's a mighty fine looking belt. I think I will give that a shot next time. Right now, I'm part way down the road with the stitching so I'll follow that through. I've got a .45 belt I've had (and road with) for about 40 years and it's still holding rounds. I do like the look of sinew stitching, but it is a labor. .22 even more so! LOL!

Thanks, Sheilajeanne. When you mentioned awls, it brought to mind my wife's ice pick. I have to put a sharper point on it, but I'll give that a try.

Newbee here. I'm putting small .22 caliber cartridge loops on a gun belt. I have limited tools and don't feel like a trip to town. My loop leather is 1/2" wide. My single prong is too wide (I can only get two holes across the width), and my smallest hole punch looks too big (thread would only take up a little bit of the round holes). I'm thinking of just using a finish nail to make the holes for the needle. Any reason why I should not? Thanks.

I'll post the link since I don't know how to do the photo: https://www.csosborneleathertools.com/product_detail.php?p_id=370 Once there, if you click on the picture, it gets bigger and legible.

Found it. Thanks!

Hi Frodo: Thanks. That chart will come in handy. Right now, though, his directions have me lacing up two pieces, butt to butt, with thong. He has me making thong 5/16" wide from 2.5 to 3.5 oz leather, beveling both edges on the flesh side. I don't want my punch holes too big or too small. Directions say #3 punch but I have no idea what that is.