DA669 complete binder set

[TonyGreen3455]

Hello! 

Can any of the masters explain to a newbie - how to bend approximately 1mm in thickness leather tape over the 16oz canvas on a DA669 ECO cylinder arm machine to get a pro result?

Q: 
apart from the binder itself what else do we need? 
in my particular case (DA669 ECO), what is a complete set consist of?

have been asking some sellers and they say different and sometimes controversial info - "you must have that&that&that.." or "you do not need to use specific foot, needle plate, feed dog to work together with the binder, just with your original parts", etc.

so, AFAIU: (according to Kwok Hing site)

1. Single raw fold binder. And it is to be attached to the moving arm. 2 items in basket.
a few times have seen recommendations to use a 135' binder (instead of 90') for easy leather moving - can anyone recommend a place where can I find it?

Moving arm rocking with feed dog - looks like needle plate and feed dog a must as well? 

Looks like these 3 (binder + moving arm + needle plate with feed dog) it is a minimum we need to set it up - am I correct?

2. presser feet - do we really need a special one or we can use a common one?

 

advice and suggestions you could give would be much appreciated

[Constabulary]

1 hour ago, TonyGreen3455 said:

2. presser feet - do we really need a special one or we can use a common one?

You need a presser foot set that suits the needle plate (throat plate) and feed dog.

1 hour ago, TonyGreen3455 said:

1. Single raw fold binder. And it is to be attached to the moving arm. 2 items in basket.
a few times have seen recommendations to use a 135' binder (instead of 90') for easy leather moving - can anyone recommend a place where can I find it?

Binding with 1mm thick leather is special - leather is causing more friction between the binder and the binding material (leather tape in your case) than f.i. nylon or cotton webbing does. You need a binder that suits your chosen biding material. And that is the main problem. Most (not all) binders you find online are not really meant for using thick leather as biding material but it depends on the binding material thickness (because of the friction). Right angle (90°) raw edge binder are causing more friction than 45° binder or inline binder. When the friction between binder and binding material is too high you will have a stretch effect and that will ruin your project. Maybe its worth considering thinner leather tape like 0.5mm or so.

You can try to find cheap binders online (trial and error) or check with attachment companies like Atlanta attachments (or similar Co´s in the UK) and they will make a proper binder that suits your chosen binding material and your machine but that will cost you big $.

 

Edited June 8, 2022 by Constabulary

[kgg]

1 hour ago, TonyGreen3455 said:

how to bend approximately 1mm in thickness leather tape over the 16oz canvas

I agree with Constabulary. The 1mm thick leather is going to be to thick for most inexpensive binders you will find online. The surface of the leather will probably cause more friction then most other binding materials. Like Constabulary the best solution would have a binder custom made for your needs.

Another consideration to keep in mind is how and from where you are going to feed the binding tape into the binder. Are you going to let the tape just drape to the floor, coil the tape and be dragged on a flat surface or ????

You need to try and reduce the amount of drag friction to get the best results. Just having it being dragged into the binder is going to increase the load which will affect the feeding of tape to the needle. If you are going to be doing a lot of binding invest in proper horizontal binding tape platter or for smaller lengths a binding tape cup holder preferably one with a real bearing in the base to provide the least amount drag resistance giving you consistent feeding of the tape to the binder.

I use the regular inline inexpensive style binders on all my machines (flatbed or cylinder bed) but I think the thickest tape I use is about .5 or .6mm and use horizontal platters or binding tape cup holders.

kgg

 

[TonyGreen3455]

54 minutes ago, Constabulary said:

You need a presser foot set that suits the needle plate (throat plate) and feed dog.

Binding with 1mm thick leather is special - leather is causing more friction between the binder and the binding material (leather tape in your case) than f.i. nylon or cotton webbing does. You need a binder that suits your chosen biding material. And that is the main problem. Most (not all) binders you find online are not really meant for using thick leather as biding material but it depends on the binding material thickness (because of the friction). Right angle (90°) raw edge binder are causing more friction than 45° binder or inline binder. When the friction between binder and binding material is too high you will have a stretch effect and that will ruin your project. Maybe its worth considering thinner leather tape like 0.5mm or so.

noted, many thanks! 

You can try to find cheap binders online (trial and error) or check with attachment companies like Atlanta attachments (or similar Co´s in the UK) and they will make a proper binder that suits your chosen binding material and your machine but that will cost you big $.

will write to Atlanta attachments for sure. BTW - their binders are compatible with third parties moving arms/feet/needle plates etc.?

can you suggest anyone in the UK or EU?

 

Edited June 8, 2022 by TonyGreen3455

[TonyGreen3455]

10 minutes ago, kgg said:

I agree with Constabulary. The 1mm thick leather is going to be to thick for most inexpensive binders you will find online. The surface of the leather will probably cause more friction then most other binding materials. Like Constabulary the best solution would have a binder custom made for your needs.

Another consideration to keep in mind is how and from where you are going to feed the binding tape into the binder. Are you going to let the tape just drape to the floor, coil the tape and be dragged on a flat surface or ????

due to the binder fitting into the moving arm and the moving arm coming with a tape adjuster/holder - looks like the tape will not be loosed, but adjusted. 
can it be a problem? 
I mean - will it make an extra moving restriction?  

You need to try and reduce the amount of drag friction to get the best results. Just having it being dragged into the binder is going to increase the load which will affect the feeding of tape to the needle. If you are going to be doing a lot of binding invest in proper horizontal binding tape platter or for smaller lengths a binding tape cup holder preferably one with a real bearing in the base to provide the least amount drag resistance giving you consistent feeding of the tape to the binder.

I use the regular inline inexpensive style binders on all my machines (flatbed or cylinder bed) but I think the thickest tape I use is about .5 or .6mm and use horizontal platters or binding tape cup holders.

kgg

 

 

[Constabulary]

these Co´s are in Germany:

https://www.np-z.com/sonderbau

https://www.grau-apparatebau.de/produkte.html

BTW - Dürkopp Adler is offering attachments / special solutions too:

https://www.duerkopp-adler.com/products/specialized-solutions

They have a catalogue:

https://www.duerkopp-adler.com/fileadmin/dag/Media/Doc/Branches/additional_equipment_catalogue_2021.pdf

But I´m sure they offer other special solutions too but they wont be cheap

 

Edited June 8, 2022 by Constabulary

[TonyGreen3455]

1 hour ago, Constabulary said:

these Co´s are in Germany:

https://www.np-z.com/sonderbau

https://www.grau-apparatebau.de/produkte.html

BTW - Dürkopp Adler is offering attachments / special solutions too:

https://www.duerkopp-adler.com/products/specialized-solutions

They have a catalogue:

https://www.duerkopp-adler.com/fileadmin/dag/Media/Doc/Branches/additional_equipment_catalogue_2021.pdf

But I´m sure they offer other special solutions too but they wont be cheap

 

done, letters posted.
many thanks for your help!

[kgg]

1 hour ago, TonyGreen3455 said:

the moving arm coming with a tape adjuster/holder - looks like the tape will not be loosed, but adjusted.

The tape guides on some binders serve two basic purposes. 1) to guide the tape to the entrance of the binder at the correct angle and 2) add / reduce back tension.

If a normal coil or length of binding tape weights XXX and you have to lift or drag that total amount to the guides it is going to add extra and inconsistent drag before the binder. The object as I see it is to keep the drag before the binder to a minimum by using horizontal platters or holders with real bearings.

kgg

[TonyGreen3455]

7 hours ago, kgg said:

The tape guides on some binders serve two basic purposes. 1) to guide the tape to the entrance of the binder at the correct angle and 2) add / reduce back tension.

If a normal coil or length of binding tape weights XXX and you have to lift or drag that total amount to the guides it is going to add extra and inconsistent drag before the binder. The object as I see it is to keep the drag before the binder to a minimum by using horizontal platters or holders with real bearings.

kgg

holders with real bearings - omg! they are real?

[kgg]

2 hours ago, TonyGreen3455 said:

holders with real bearings - omg! they are real?

A lot of binding tape spool holders that hold the tape in either the horizontal or vertical position do NOT have bearings to help reduce drag and a lot don't have spool centering insets to center the spool of tape on the device.

kgg