eBay=feeBay

[Go2Tex]

In light of my recent and shocking experience with listing a saddle on Ebay, I thought I'd use this thread to do a little ranting, since it's all about marketing.

Ebay has changed over the years and has gotten rather greedy of late and might I say, draconian. Maybe they just woke up and realized they were selling themselves short, not charging enough in fees. Then they must have had a corporate meeting and came up with the brilliant strategy of making Paypal mandatory and all but exclusively the only method of payment allowed. I'm sure that idea got somebody a very nice bonus down there at Ebay World. May the fleas of a thousand camels infest his, or her BVDs.

That's right folks. For those of you who haven't sold anything on Ebay recently, it will come as quite a shock when you try to list your item and discover that you MUST accept Paypal as a payment method and ONLY Paypal, unless you happen to have some other type of Internet merchant account they approve of, all of which I suspect charge rather high fees like Paypal.

To make matters worse, now it takes much longer to get something listed because they have to send it through some kind of program that sniffs out any mention of anything they don't like, like the mention of checks or money orders, or "just call me and we'll work it out", kinda stuff. Really threatening too. If you try to get around their "policies" your butt will be banned for life. Can you imagine? Banned from Ebay..... for mentioning that you might be willing to accept a form of payment as "risky" as a friggin MONEY ORDER!

Now, the fees charged by Paypal maybe don't sound like much at first blush, a mere 1 or 2 or 4 percent of the value of the item sold and if you are selling small, inexpensive items, it's more a nuisance than a problem. But when you start adding it all up, the listing fee, the final value fee and then add on the Paypal fee, it begins to look more like what it is, a big price to pay to sell your stuff, especially if you sell high value items like, eh... custom saddles.

I checked out the alternative to Ebay, that Etsy.com and maybe it wouldn't hurt to open up an account there but I doubt it get's much attention yet. Nothing like Ebay. Surely there must be other auctions out there. That's what Ebay needs to get their minds right again.... a little old fashioned competition, the American way.

How about it, computer geeks?

[gtwister09]

Brent,

Ironic that I just read an article that came through TechRepublic about eBay complaints. I know it is a small consolation but you are not alone in your rant. Funny that I read Draconian a couple of times in the article as well.

You and other readers may be interested in a UK site called TameBay that was created by a couple of eBay power sellers to help tame or curb the eBay animal. They have some interesting insights and thoughts on the future of eBay. Remember that each country has different implementaions of eBay so their accounts may not align exactly with the US side of eBay.

Another interesting site for online merchants is AuctionBytes. Here is a great site that covers the online auction industry usually in depth PheeBay Online Auction News and Forums. I imagine that this site will give you lots of alternatives to eBay.

I thought of places like ebid (not sure of it's success rate), Tazbar (another eBay wannabe), Tweebay (ebay wannabe on Twitter) or craigslist (free but more like classifieds). For that matter you could use google (old froogle) with adwords to drive them to your site. I would suggest doing a search on eBay alternatives through google, dogpile or such for an alternative if you don't find enough alternatives in PheeBay.

Regards,

Ben

[Go2Tex]

Thanks for the suggestions, Ben. I use Ebay, or did, mostly for driving business to my website. I'm sure they'll close that loophole as well.

The thing that really gripes me about Ebay is that dealing with them is like dealing with the government. They are just so full of B.S, (bovine scat), about resolving problems, etc, but when you email their customer support with a genuine issue, they reply with a form answer that just repeats their policy! It's a slap in the face with a wet towel. They don't even read the email you send to them. They obviously look at the subject line and send you back a form standard kiss-off answer.

Anyway, all I can do at this point is just rant rant rant on every venue I can find to warn folks off Ebay. I hope I get some flames on here about it too from the loyal few who still think Ebay is worth it. Come on, gimme your best shot.

Explain to me why it's OK for Paypal to be crammed down my throat and for them to put a hold on my funds because I'm not a high volume seller! Yeah, defend that one, loyal Ebayers! Are there any left?

[TomBanwell]

Personally I'm thankful we live in a free market economy. Ebay is a private company and can run their business however they like. They can't "cram PayPal down your throat" unless you choose to do business with them. If you don't like it, don't do business with them. If enough people don't like it, they will lose business and change.

[Ian]

Paypal works like traveller's checks. Banks don't make their money from the fee they charge for the checks - they make their money by holding your money until the checks are redeemed. Can you imagine the net worth of Paypal holding and collecting interest on your money until it's retreived?

On a different issue, but regarding Ebay. They need to have a seperate area for commercial dealers vs. private sellers. I get tired of scrolling through hundreds of listings by Tandy dealers listing their entire catalog. I never sell my work on Ebay, but I do use it to sell other stuff, just because of the huge exposure you can't get through other avenues like Craigslist, which is very local.

[Go2Tex]

Personally I'm thankful we live in a free market economy. Ebay is a private company and can run their business however they like. They can't "cram PayPal down your throat" unless you choose to do business with them. If you don't like it, don't do business with them. If enough people don't like it, they will lose business and change.

Yeah, tell the corporate lawyers that. They tell you how to run your company, who to hire and fire, what products to sell or not, what you can say to your employees and it's all backed up by federal legislation and lots of government agencies with lots of regulations enforced by political appointees through their millions of bureaucrat minions.

So, no, we don't live in a free market anything, my friend. We live, believe it or not, in a socialist republic. But, inspite of that little minor misunderstanding, you are correct. Ebay can treat it's members any way it wants to. They can jack up the fees at will, cram the high priced Paypal down their throats and all the members can do is just walk away. And, I suspect many have. Ebay is free to be replaced by something else.

Where are all the anti-trust lawyers when you need them? I think Ebay has an unfair monopoly on the internet auction racket and needs to be brought down to size by the anti big business crowd. Split them up like Uncle Samski did to Ma Bell.

[Ian]

Split them up like Uncle Samski did to Ma Bell.

Sorry to tell you Tex, that was in the day when the U.S. government was still interested in defending and promoting personal freedom. That day has come and gone. The people who are supposed to be keeping an eye out for monopolies are now invested in those molopolies and they aren't going to do anything to rock THAT boat. They are all bought.

Personally, I blame all the "there ought to be a law", mommy-government people. They have begged the government to control our lives, and the government has been happy to oblige.

[Go2Tex]

Sorry to tell you Tex, that was in the day when the U.S. government was still interested in defending and promoting personal freedom. That day has come and gone. The people who are supposed to be keeping an eye out for monopolies are now invested in those molopolies and they aren't going to do anything to rock THAT boat. They are all bought.

Personally, I blame all the "there ought to be a law", mommy-government people. They have begged the government to control our lives, and the government has been happy to oblige.

Can't argue with that logic. Not one bit.

[TomBanwell]

I think Ebay has an unfair monopoly on the internet auction racket and needs to be brought down to size by the anti big business crowd. Split them up like Uncle Samski did to Ma Bell.

So you're advocating that the Feds break up a company because it's successful? MySpace had the same kind of "monopoly" until Facebook took away much of their business. Ebay's business is nothing like Ma Bell's, and they are already losing revenue.

[TrooperChuck]

At one time I wanted to sell some of my leatherwork on Ebay, but I've changed my mind.

For me, the disillusionment came when I sent a complaint to Ebay about what I thought was some unfair bidding. All I got back was a form-letter which didn't address the point I had raised. So, I sent another complaint, and I got a form-letter apology, which STILL didn't answer my original complaint.

That incident told me exactly what the good folks at Ebay thought of their customers.

So, now I only use Ebay as a form of entertainment. When someone is trying to sell a Model 1904 McClellan saddle as an "Original Civil War Cavalry Saddle!" I send them a note. Most of the people respond back with a thank you, but ocassionally some of them get really defensive! LOL

[Jordan]

Tidbit, Ebay, owns PayPal they absorbed it a couple of years ago very quietly. Used it once to sell a motorcycle, did not sell and never used it again, fees up the kazoo, The bike sold on craigslist to an out of stater, so while cl is usually local in coverage, it is available to a wide area. Any electronic transactions need added diligence, just seems too easy to get a raw deal. Maybe I'm old fashioned but I have never trusted electronic commerce in any form.

[MADMAX22]

For me right now ebay is ok, Im selling a couple of things but its only temperary until I get my business license and a website setup. I know what you mean by the fees. If you keep it down to small items that dont go for too much then your ok but big items thats another story.

Unfortinatly like everything else paypal started out as a good deal believe it or not, it was one of the first online secure forms of working with money and you didnt have to worry about getting your credit card info ripped off and such. Started out as a good idea.

Oh and yes our socialist republic is kind of screwed up to say the least but you all know what, we let it get that way. I feel really bad but in all reality we the people got comfy and didnt feel like taking the measures to ensure that our government made sure we were first on the order of priorities. Instead we sat back, complained, and let them take out money. We let them pass all these damn baby sitter laws to keep every idiot safe. All well its still a nice place to live.

[jbird]

I have used eBay and the fees there asking are way to much it's a rip off they are using you because you to make some money I have a few choice words for the system they use.

Josh

[MADMAX22]

Oh yeah wanted to add, dont forget ebay bought craigslist as well if I remember correctly.

[Art]

Hi Tex,

I think you have it all wrong about eBay. They don't look at the subject line and send you back a form standard answer. No No No No No No...they don't look at the subject line.

Art

when you email their customer support with a genuine issue, they reply with a form answer that just repeats their policy! It's a slap in the face with a wet towel. They don't even read the email you send to them. They obviously look at the subject line and send you back a form standard kiss-off answer.

Come on, gimme your best shot.

[freak]

All true but where else can i sell a couch cushion that was farted on by my dog and left a stain that looks like Elvis for $78K ?? Cause my dog has more gas and my couch has 2 more cushions.

[gtwister09]

Oh yeah wanted to add, dont forget ebay bought craigslist as well if I remember correctly.

Not exactly... In 2004 they purchased 25% from another employee/shareholder. eBay and Craigslist are in a battle now since eBay used their shareholder knowledge to create their classified site, Kijiji. I worked with several people from San Francisco that worked with and knew Craig intimately. They relayed many aspects of the story in April and May of 2008.

I looked for some confirmation online and here you go... See links below.

eBay Stake in Craigslist

Craigslist Fights Back Against eBay

Regards,

Ben

[HarryB]

Trooperchuck, it must be the law enforcement gene in us but I write Ebay sellers also. I try to be very nnice to sellers who state that they are not sure what they are selling. The other ones that are adament about "vintage, antique leather tools" and they are trying to sell something a couple of years old and completely unrelated to leather, I am usually not as nice to. I, too, get some interesting remarks from the sellers. And yes, it is very entertaining.

[Go2Tex]

So you're advocating that the Feds break up a company because it's successful? MySpace had the same kind of "monopoly" until Facebook took away much of their business. Ebay's business is nothing like Ma Bell's, and they are already losing revenue.

No, not really. It was just tongue in cheek. Venting my frustration at a situation that is causing me pain and I have no control over it. Forget the Ma Bell reference. Obviously they are different. One is, or was, a utility and the other is just an anomoly, a dot com that hit the jack pot, made a few guys very wealthy and is now just another haven for marketing jerks sitting around trying to dream up better ways to rip people off to improve the "bottom line".

Well, it was good while it lasted. And it still has its uses. I think it can still be a way to advertise, if not sell your products. It's just going to cost a heck of a lot more now to do it. If nothing else, this little Ebay awakening has gotten me thinking about alternative ways of getting some exposure and at least thinking about some other avenues for my little business.

[DarkDreamsLeather]

Ebay is great to start out with, it wasnt always the greed monster in the closet, I have had an ebay store for the last 4 years selling my leatherstuff, I never made a lot of money but I did make my costs though. Of course that has changed since the economy has been tanking. Now ebay is just a point for people to go to. I do have my web site but I am in the process of coding the revamp of the site with an online store and store front.

I have been getting tired of Ebay raising the fees twice a year I have had to raise my prices on some of my lower priced items to cover the extra fees on items under $25.

My total costs a month if I dont sell anythign is about $17.

I never do live auction unless I know its something that will sell. I will be opening an etsy store and most likely closing my ebay store. I am doing more and more faires and will be starting advertising in magazines in the fall so ebay will be going away.

As for paypal I prefer then its just too easy and makes the fees worth it for that ease.

Still ebay is killing itself which is normal for companies to do when they get real big because the people's brains at the top start to lose all concept of common sense and holes start to form like in the mad cow disease.

[MADMAX22]

Not exactly... In 2004 they purchased 25% from another employee/shareholder. eBay and Craigslist are in a battle now since eBay used their shareholder knowledge to create their classified site, Kijiji. I worked with several people from San Francisco that worked with and knew Craig intimately. They relayed many aspects of the story in April and May of 2008.

I looked for some confirmation online and here you go... See links below.

eBay Stake in Craigslist

Craigslist Fights Back Against eBay

Regards,

Ben

Thanks, sorry I had followed some of it for a bit but then didnt follow it much later on. Glad its not outright.

[Go2Tex]

..................Still ebay is killing itself which is normal for companies to do when they get real big because the people's brains at the top start to lose all concept of common sense and holes start to form like in the mad cow disease.

Oh, that is too funny! LMAO! And all so true in so many cases. It's the way people rise to the top in a large organization that is the root of the problem. You don't get promoted by making waves and telling people what they need to hear. No, you rise to the top of the dung heap by being able and willing to tell people whatever it is they "want" to hear. You must be a cheerleader for whatever ridiculous scheme-of-the-week comes along. A "team player" is code for "go along to get along".

The amount of productivity that is lost in every company and government agency in the country every day because people are doing senseless things mandated by "mad cow" upper management would be staggering if anyone knew how much it really is. Nobody knows just exactly how much time is wasted because they don't keep track of it. There are no metrics on that stuff. Oh no. Keeping metrics on things like ethics training for adults that should know better would be, eh, ...politically incorrect.

Well, I could rant all day about this and probably pi**off a lot of folks, but it has nothing to do with leather and it sure ain't getting any leather work done or sold, so.............

I'll just leave ya'll with this final thought for the day. If by chance you should wander upon Ebay during the day while at your place of employment on company time using company resources, all of which are strictly forbidden by company policy, remember that Big Brother is watching............ bwahahahahaha

[UKRay]

I've sat back and watched this thread with interest, but it seems that some people are missing an important point. For most people, eBay serves an important function. It allows them to get rid of stuff they don't want without having to try too hard to sell it. Folk simply put their junk on 'the bay' and watch it trundle away down the road a week or so later whilst they are jingling a few coins in their pockets.

Now that is fine if what you are selling is junk and you are happy to get whatever you can for it. A few cents/dollars either way don't make much difference. The critical issue comes when you want to sell something you value for the 'market price'.

If you set up a stall on a street corner or open a high street shop then you will get the 'market price' you choose because you are setting the trading rules.

If you put goods on consignment in another traders store you make less money because they are setting the rules. If you don't like their rules then you don't have to sell through them, you can always open your own store or sell elsewhere.

If you do choose to open your own store you may not sell as much but sure as hell your percentages will be higher when you do make a sale - but just remember the overheads... it costs a lot of money to operate a store of any kind - online or bricks and mortar. It may be that the only way you can make enough profit to stay afloat is by increasing the volume of the goods you sell - more stuff through the door equals more profit.

Likewise, if you put your goods on eBay, of course you make less because - guess what - eBay sets the rules. These rules favour those who make lots of low value, high volume sales (I believe they call them Power Sellers) because that is the direction eBay likes to travel. Lots of sales equal lots of commission. The amounts of money involved are often quite low but they represent a high percentage of the transaction value.

Therefore, if you sell high value goods (saddles, bags and other well made leathery stuff) they feel entitled to make the same percentages from you - and why not? It is their store after all.

The answer may simply be to walk away and find another route to market that pays enough to make it worthwhile. Standing around and whining about an organisation that is making honest money is simply sour grapes. If you want to make money from your leatherwork then best get off your backsides and start looking for ways to promote it to a wider audience. eBay isn't the only way to sell.

On a personal level, I an happy to deal through eBay as long as I make a respectable profit. It allows me to sell my stuff in a worldwide marketplace and I simply accept that I will make more money when I sell elsewhere. I won't cut off any of my routes to market because that would be stupid. I simply make sure the things I sell on eBay carry a high enough percentage to pay the charges. Just good business practice...

The PayPal monopoly isn't an issue for me either. It is simply a legitimate business expense. I always sell on a fixed price, buy now basis and so, just like with shipping charges, the purchaser picks up the tab for the convenience of buying on eBay. They also pay a premium for being able to pay me with Paypal. I don't put it in those terms on the listings but you don't have to be a genius to work out that somebody somewhere is paying for the convenience PayPal and eBay offer - and it isn't me!

I haven't said anything here you don't already know and have no intention of getting into an arguement with anyone about it. I just wanted to have my two cents - this is an open forum after all!

Have a good week.

[jbird]

Yes Ray this is certainly a open forum and every one has a right chime in well I might not think much of my self but I do every one else,

Any way I think you make good points and right on but for me it still comes down what's fare and right I can't stomach the fact that they are making a killing off those strugling to make ends meat and yes they should make money but i don't know I guess I just don't like big companys they give a great service but with out the heart you know the what's good for you is good for me small time out look, but I must say you are a good writer and a man that knows his mind so with that I say there are too sides to every thing and I value your opinion cheers as you say over there and god speed.

Josh

Edited January 14, 2009 by jbird

[Jordan]

Pretty funny post about corps losing sight. The people at the top forget what and who is generating the cash and they start walking around experiencing perpetual brain farts! You know there is trouble when their meetings have meetings to discuss who is bringing the dognuts to the next meeting!