Leather sewing machine for the knifemaker

[EmilHandmadeKnives]

Hello folks!
I'm so happy I found your forum. 

My name is Emil, I'm a knifemaker located in Poland. I started making knives and leather sheaths about 6 years ago, however I'm a bit tired of hand sewing. 
Usually I am using veg tan leather 3-4 mm per layer, and sewing mostly 3-4 layers. It gives me about 10 mm - 15 mm material, that I have to stitch. 15 mm is extreme for me, most of my sheaths are between 9-12 mm thick ( about 1/2").  All the time I'm using 1mm waxed slam thread. 

I decided to buy my first leather sewing machine, just for sewing my sheaths. It's still small part of my work, but really time consuming. 
Last 10 days was making research, and I'm getting crazy  

As I am located in Europe it's not easy to get second hand Cobra or Cowboy, it's world of Adler, Claes, Singer, Minerva etc... My budget is limited to about 1000 EUR / USD. 
I found that perfect machine for my use should be Juki 441 or Adler 205, however these machines are too expensive for me. 

I also found some other interesting models, but I'm not sure if they are "strong" enough to deal with my leather goodies:
- Adler 269-373
- Claes 214
- Adler 105

And now I have question to you. What do you think about machines from the list above? 
Could you suggest me something else that won't ruin my budget? 

I just want to mention that I have good service of heavy machines in my neighborhood, and they can help me with some modifications or repairs. 

Best regards,
Emil

[kgg]

1 hour ago, EmilHandmadeKnives said:

My budget is limited to about 1000 EUR

Another option I would put into the 441 class that you may want to investigate importing is a new manual sewing machines like the Tippmann Boss, Cowboy Outlaw or the Weaver Cub. These will handle the thickness that you are looking to sew. Not the Chinese Patcher aka the Tinkers Delight.

kgg

[PastorBob]

1 hour ago, EmilHandmadeKnives said:

My name is Emil, I'm a knifemaker located in Poland. I started making knives and leather sheaths about 6 years ago,

Welcome to the forum!  What beauties you have made, both knives and sheaths.  I like the mottling on those sheaths.  Gorgeous!   @Wizcrafts can shed some light on your questions.

[Cumberland Highpower]

Some good looking knives.  I'm going to be honest, your knives look great.  You need an equally superb sheath to match.   A hook and awl machine is what you really need for a quality product.  Yes, I read your limitations/location/Euros, etc.  Europe doesn't seem to be a great place to find harness stitchers either....

the Adler 105 on your list would work for you.   Make sure you buy a 105-64 and not some other sub-variant like a 105-25 or 105-5.   Dont' get carried away on thread size. Seems like the D point needles sew best on that machine. it throws the same quality stitch as a Juki 441 or Adler 205, etc.

[Wizcrafts]

The Adler 105 is a bottom feed only machine. The teeth will leave marks on the bottom that you will either have to try to smooth out, or explain away. Those teeth are required to grip the leather and pull it to space the stitches. The denser and thicker the stack of leather, the higher the foot pressure must be to keep the leather from lifting with the needle. The higher the foot pressure, the deeper the tooth marks on the bottom.

[Cumberland Highpower]

1 hour ago, Wizcrafts said:

The Adler 105 is a bottom feed only machine. The teeth will leave marks on the bottom that you will either have to try to smooth out, or explain away. Those teeth are required to grip the leather and pull it to space the stitches. The denser and thicker the stack of leather, the higher the foot pressure must be to keep the leather from lifting with the needle. The higher the foot pressure, the deeper the tooth marks on the bottom.

You're not taking into account sub-classes of the 105 Wiz.  The 105-64 is a needle and bottom feed (works great on leather).    The 105-5 is a bottom feed only (might be the version youre thinking of).  105-25 is a bottom and foot feed.   Ive owned all 3 variants and have a 205-64 at the moment.   You can find plates that do away with the lower feed dog if you look, I have one on my 205-64 I bought from the member here on leatherworker UWE.  Smooth lower feed dogs are available also.

I feel pretty confident the 105-64 would be just what he needs on all that flat leatherwork.

Edited August 30, 2022 by Cumberland Highpower

[Dwight]

I noticed you did not have the Tippmann Boss in your lineup there.  It would be a very good first machine for you.

It's not only a good machine . . . the manufacturer is really great . . . we've had a 20 +  year relationship . . . been nothing but good.

It was may first machine . . . making holsters, belts, knife sheaths, even billfolds and other "things".

For knife sheaths . . . I wouldn't even think of going any other way . . . it is tough to do belts . . . especially longer ones . . . 

It is in your price range brand new . . . although I don't have any idea what the shipping would be.

May God bless,

Dwight

[bladegrinder]

Being a knifemaker, when I started searching out a machine I searched knifemaker forums and it seemed I found quite a few people saying the Tippman boss can be really finicky at times.

I read enough that I took it off my list of machines to consider. this is just my opinion but I was researching on and off for a couple years before I bit the bullet and bought a Cowboy 4500.

[EmilHandmadeKnives]

Thank you guys for your comments, finally I found experienced community that shares knowledge. 

Currently my first choice is Adler 105-64, I will try to find one in good condition. I hope I will be able to find smooth lower feed dog for this machine  

Tippman Boss is not available in Poland, and purchasing new one from US + taxes + shipping will be too much for such simple machine. 

Anyway, if someone has anything to add, just don't hesitate. I will appreciate any help, because it's still kind of magic for me. 

Cheers,
Emil. 

[Michiel]

An alternative in the same price class could be the adler 220 

its a flatbed but has triple transport. (And is as vintage as the 105-64)

An affordable free arm machine with triple transport for heavy thread is difficult to find in europe  ….

regards, michiel

[Cumberland Highpower]

17 hours ago, bladegrinder said:

Being a knifemaker, when I started searching out a machine I searched knifemaker forums and it seemed I found quite a few people saying the Tippman boss can be really finicky at times.

I read enough that I took it off my list of machines to consider. this is just my opinion but I was researching on and off for a couple years before I bit the bullet and bought a Cowboy 4500.

I've never really seen any good work done on a Boss.  The Coyboy 4500 probably sews 10x better I'd guess?

 

[dikman]

Nothing to add about a machine, I just wanted to say that your knives look very nice, a practical size and shape for a using knife.

Your sheaths are also well designed, but how did you get that mottled finish? You can't just post them on the forum without explaining how it's done, it's just not allowed.

[bladegrinder]

4 hours ago, Cumberland Highpower said:

I've never really seen any good work done on a Boss.  The Coyboy 4500 probably sews 10x better I'd guess?

 

It's 10 x faster that's for sure. while I was on my quest for a machine for knifemakers the Cowboy and Cobra kept coming up as probably the best with really no complaints from anyone, the Tippman Boss on the other hand seemed to be a mixed bag. one knifemaker I know could never get it to work right and sold it a few months after he bought it. I've also read where some folks loved theirs and never had an issue but I also read of a lot of folks that had issues on and off and others that had issues every time they used it, and having to do something to the machine to get it to run right.

So when I weighed the pros and cons of what I had researched about it I took it off my list. when I got the Cowboy 4500 I was naturally a little apprehensive using it at first but after a lot of practice I feel comfortable with it now and have had zero issues with it, all screw ups so far have been my fault.

[Garyak]

TA-KING 29-18. I’m a fanboy tho. Works for me. 

[EmilHandmadeKnives]

7 hours ago, dikman said:

Nothing to add about a machine, I just wanted to say that your knives look very nice, a practical size and shape for a using knife.

Your sheaths are also well designed, but how did you get that mottled finish? You can't just post them on the forum without explaining how it's done, it's just not allowed.

Thank a lot bro  I just splashed some wood dye on my leathers. Sometimes I am using also pieces of sponge for application. It's really simple  

[chrisash]

Have you done a search on Ebay in England and the continent for "Industrial sewing machines" you will be surprised what turns up that might fit your bill, and maybe a drive to pick up. Germany in particular has a great history of sewing machines

[dikman]

16 hours ago, EmilHandmadeKnives said:

Thank a lot bro  I just splashed some wood dye on my leathers. Sometimes I am using also pieces of sponge for application. It's really simple  

Thanks, it might be simple but it's very effective.

[Cumberland Highpower]

18 hours ago, chrisash said:

Have you done a search on Ebay in England and the continent for "Industrial sewing machines" you will be surprised what turns up that might fit your bill, and maybe a drive to pick up. Germany in particular has a great history of sewing machines

Poland seems to be full of good machines at fair prices.  Once I wanted to buy a combining machine and found one at Seick in Germany and one in Poland.  (I cant' remember the name of the Polish shop).  The Poles were cheaper, quicker to reply and far more ready to deal and make a sale.  Germans in general, and Seick specifically, are some of the hardest people on earth to deal with when it comes to striking a deal.  

Anyway...

[EmilHandmadeKnives]

5 hours ago, Cumberland Highpower said:

Poland seems to be full of good machines at fair prices.  Once I wanted to buy a combining machine and found one at Seick in Germany and one in Poland.  (I cant' remember the name of the Polish shop).  The Poles were cheaper, quicker to reply and far more ready to deal and make a sale.  Germans in general, and Seick specifically, are some of the hardest people on earth to deal with when it comes to striking a deal.  

Anyway...

I have to visit the service in my hood. Elder guy has a lot of contacts,  I will ask him to find for me Adler 105-64 in good condition and price. Indeed, prices in Poland are usually lower, and we still have a lot of machines on the market. 

Cheers

[shoepatcher]

if you want to use heavy thread, the 105-64 would probably be the machine you want.  Still they cost more than $1000.00.  More like $1500.00 You look and wait for something to come up.

glenn

 

[EmilHandmadeKnives]

13 hours ago, shoepatcher said:

if you want to use heavy thread, the 105-64 would probably be the machine you want.  Still they cost more than $1000.00.  More like $1500.00 You look and wait for something to come up.

glenn

 

Thanks mate Prices in Poland are much lower, I should get this model for 700-800 $. 

[shoepatcher]

Great.   Make sure you sew on it before buying it.   Some parts for it are hard to find just so you know.

Glenn

 

[EmilHandmadeKnives]

Hi folks! 

I've made many calls and no one can offer me Adler 105-64 in Poland. 
However I found Adler 205-64 with price below 1000 EUR. Are there any disadvantages of 205-64 comparing it to 105-64? 
From the information I found, it should deal with 10-13 mm thick veg tan leather  

Thanks in advance,
Emil