For footwear, do I want a TechSew 830, or … ?

[tozafoot]

I would really appreciate some expert thoughts on what kind of machine I should invest in for making footwear, please. I’ve spent hours (re)reading many excellent threads on this forum to try to learn about machines, needles and thread (all new to me). But I am having trouble narrowing down my options.

I’ve been making footwear since 2015, mostly by hand. I make both lasted and unlasted shoes (see my website at https://tozafoot.com and my Mastodon feed at https://ohai.social/@tozafoot). Since 2020, I have been concentrating on unlasted / stitchdown types, because it’s much easier to end up with a sole that’s very flexible, and to vary the toe shape without paying for an expensive last.

I’m not a complete sewing machine novice, but the thought of having to set up and maintain a complicated machine rather daunts me. I’ve used (and own) a domestic machine for making things like curtains, pillow covers, aprons, some clothes. And I have been on a few taught courses where I have used other people’s (already set up!) industrial machines for sewing a very limited number of footwear uppers: I have used flat beds with presser feet, and cylinder and post beds with roller feet. So I am familiar with things like stitch length and tensioning, but I’ve never had to swap out thread sizes, needle sizes, presser feet types or footplates.

For my hand sewing I've been using Ritza (Tiger) thread: 0.8mm for uppers and 1mm for attaching uppers to soles. Stitch lengths have been 2-4mm for uppers, and 6-10mm for attaching uppers to soles. I wouldn’t want a machine to do any stitch length larger than 10mm, and probably 2-8mm would be ideal.   

From my very limited experience and understanding (and apologies if I am getting some of the terminology wrong):

• I think I prefer a roller foot to a walking foot because when I used a roller foot, I found it easier to stitch close to the edges while still seeing what I was doing, and to make tight curves… but maybe I’m wrong?
• I don’t think I am too bothered about whether it is a post or cylinder machine, although post machines are often used for footwear uppers, and there must be a reason for that!
• I believe I need a machine that will sew 2-20oz thickness, but mostly 3-14oz (=1-6mm). For example: a 3oz upper to a 2oz lining; adding decoration and straps could increase upper thickness to ~8oz in places; the uppers then need to be sewn to a 5-8 oz sole. I think this means that ideally I need #46 thread (#14 needles) to #277 thread (#25 needles), but I could probably just about manage with #69 thread to #138 thread (especially if I sew two parallel stitch lines with the latter when I need a very strong seam).
• In an ideal world I would have a treadle-powered machine, because I’m kind of old-fashioned, and get negative joy from having to set up and deal with electric motors and speed reducers etc. And I loved using an old treadle machine in someone else's workshop. But I recognize that realistically, a servo motor with a speed reducer may be the way to go.
• I think I may need some support in configuring and learning how to use the machine, so buying from a good dealer (rather than, say, Craigslist) may be useful for troubleshooting.
• My budget is $2K to $3K (or maybe a bit over for a super machine, especially if it will have good resale value). I can’t currently see how to turn my hobby into a business, so any machine I get would likely be used for 8-20hr a week.

Based on this, I have identified the following machines that might work for me:

• TechSew 830. Post bed, with dual drive roller. A bit on the pricy side at around $3.1K including tax, but I could spring for this if it really is the best option and will have reasonable resale value. My main concern about this is that its max thread size is #138. Also, its max stitch length is 5mm, and in an ideal world I would have slightly longer stitches at times.

• Consew 710 UX: roller foot, post bed, but again only uses up to #138 thread.

• Class 26 Cobra or TechSew 2750. These would handle heavier thread (up to #207), and have longer max stitch length (8mm), but will they still be OK for the thinnest uppers I need to stitch (~2oz)?
• A Cowboy 3200 fitted with the narrow needle plate that RockyAussie developed, so it can sew with much thinner leathers and closer to the edge than the factory defaults allow. This would sew #69 to #346 thread (perfect), and has a 12mm maximum stitch length, but the arm diameter is pretty large, and I am still not sure about the walking foot.

Are there any more that should be on this list? Should I knock any off? Is there anything else I should be looking for? Any pros and cons of the various models I should particularly consider? What should I ask a dealer when I enquire about these?

Thank you for any advice you can provide!

[kgg]

14 hours ago, tozafoot said:

Based on this, I have identified the following machines that might work for me:

Based on what you have listed and looking at your website.

i) post bed (Techsew 830 and the Consew 710 UX )

ii) 1341 class cylinder bed Cobra 26 and Techsew 2750

iii) 441 class cylinder bed Cowboy 3200

I think from a versatility point of view I would go with a 1341 class machine. So you would be looking for either a used Juki LS-341 or clone or new Juki LS-1341 or it's clones.

The ideal thing would be to go to a dealer and test a couple of machines with your items and then select the best machine. Keep in mind no one machine will do everything each will have their pro's and cons.

kgg

Edited January 21, 2023 by kgg

[ljk]

I am in a similar situation.  I make my  own shoes because it's difficult and I have issues.  Being elderly I'd rather sit at the bench than ply my trade. Auto trim, upholstery, and leather.  My choice would be a cb3200 or a Singer 45k variant.  The cowboy would probably fill all your needs.   A alternative would be a one of the 45k.  For example a 45k69 was designed for shoes and has a unique walking foot.  I have a 45k76 which has a lifting foot with no feed, sewing a stitch at a time still faster than handstitching, these can be cheap.  I paid $50.  This machine is easy to mount to a shoe patch table and could than operate with a treadle.  They come with a heavy flywheel.

Finally explore a Cowboy Outlaw or Tippman.  Or a heavy duty version of the CLSP .

[tozafoot]

Thank you very much for your thoughts, @kgg and @ljk.

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The ideal thing would be to go to a dealer and test a couple of machines with your items

Yes, I think that would be ideal. 

Now to find a local (NJ/NYC/PA) dealer with all three types in stock for me to "test drive" (the post-bed with roller foot, the 1341 class and the 441 class cylinder bed)... By googling, I did find a dealer in Asbury Park NJ ("Industrial Sewing Machine Man"), but all other suggestions also gratefully received!

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A alternative would be a one of the 45k.  For example a 45k69 was designed for shoes and has a unique walking foot.  I have a 45k76 which has a lifting foot with no feed, sewing a stitch at a time still faster than handstitching, these can be cheap.  I paid $50.  This machine is easy to mount to a shoe patch table and could then operate with a treadle.

A treadle would be great, but I am not sure how to get hold of one of these machines other than by looking on Craigslist, eBay and other secondhand sales places.

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Finally explore a Cowboy Outlaw or Tippman.

Two things meant these didn't go from my long-list to my short-list:

• Each needs a hand to operate the lever, but I think I will need both my hands to steer the leather without slipping; so a treadle, or a servo motor controlled by knee or foot paddles would be better.
• I thought I saw a few people on this forum saying they were not great for sewing very thin leathers, and sometimes my uppers / liners are pretty thin (2-3oz total at the seam)... but maybe I misunderstood that

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Or a heavy duty version of the CLSP

"CLSP" = Chinese Leather Shoe Patcher?... Sorry, not sure what the abbreviation refers to.

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 I make my  own shoes because it's difficult and I have issues.

It's great to "meet" someone else who makes their own shoes!

[Edit: typos... never see them in the draft ]

Edited January 21, 2023 by tozafoot
Typos

[ljk]

You can view these machines on Amazon. Colored Peas CLSP or facebook chinese leather shoe patcher.  The $100 model gets a lot of bad press I would call it a great design but poorly executed.  However there is heavy duty $300 with high lift and larger bobbin.  Though manual it would be no  more difficult than a 29 singer patcher to motorize.  There is another model that has a 45 degree foot with a high lift that would work for inseaming.  My preferred sole construction is sew the insole and midsole . Than sew the midsole to the outsole.  This technique is also called Blake Rapid.

[tozafoot]

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My preferred sole construction is sew the insole and midsole . Then sew the midsole to the outsole.  This technique is also called Blake Rapid.

I have not tried that technique yet. For my unlasted shoes I’ve been doing a simple stitchdown / sew-down of upper to a sole that acts as insole and outsole (e.g. see photo below): I could easily do this with a cylinder or post bed machine and a roller foot, probably with a walking foot (with some practice!). For my lasted shoes I have used welts, i.e. tack upper + liner and insole to a last then sew on a welt through all of these (I would not need a machine for this), then sew the welt to an outsole (Photos of the process in this blog post) I I might want to try using a machine for this latter step, although it may not work, because when I sew by hand I punch holes very close to the upper, and I might not be able to get close enough with a machine

I talked to Richard at Industrial Sewing Machine Man in NJ today. He mentioned that dual roller machines with reverse might be more prone to jamming on reverse than simpler roller machines or walking foot machines… something else to consider. 

Having done some more research I am tending towards a Cobra Class 26. If anyone in NJ / eastern PA / southern NY is looking to sell a used one, let me know!